Mankind to return to the moon?
04 August 2008, 03:54 PM
#183
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My point is, as Im sure you realise, that for the true sceptic proof can not exist. The only way to know for certain is to go yourself.
04 August 2008, 04:22 PM
#185
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I'm going to poke needles into my eyes soon.
Because, Geezer, i can see that the Earth is not flat. I've even been high enough to see the curve of the Earth. It's measurable. It's provable. It's observable. The scientists can throw the kitchen sink at the moon landing doubters, and they have, but they can't prove man walked on the moon.
Because, Geezer, i can see that the Earth is not flat. I've even been high enough to see the curve of the Earth. It's measurable. It's provable. It's observable. The scientists can throw the kitchen sink at the moon landing doubters, and they have, but they can't prove man walked on the moon.
But FE believers would challenge that from you, and your refutation would seem as inplausible as the refutation of the moon ones! Both you and I know that, but to them it isn't clear cut. All I'm saying is that the evidence for us walking on the moon is compelling, any sensible person cannot dismiss the moon rock, equipment left there that we use today, etc. etc. but still they do, so considering you find the evidence for a round earth so compelling, why do you consider them to be nuts but not others?
There is plenty of knowledge in the world that you cannot prove but you accept as true because of available evidence.
Geezer
04 August 2008, 04:34 PM
#188
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If you actually DO think about his, it does raise the question about what you do base your beliefs on. We probably all believe something that's slightly odd, whether we know it or not. And let's face it, billions believe in God on the basis of what, exactly? And for the same reasons nobody can demonstrate God to me, i don't believe in that either. Moon rock schmoon rock. You think it came from the moon because you were told it did. I choose to remain unconvinced. Hokay?
04 August 2008, 04:42 PM
#189
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If you look in to in more detail the evidence is pretty compelling. We have meterorites that have landed on Earth that originated on the moon. Their outside lack detail and are often deformed due to the massive heat incured by coming through the Earth's atmosphere. Geologists can determine that the lunar rock brought back has the same source as the meteorites. The big difference is the outersurface isn't scortched and still has the tiny pits from interstellar dust hitting the rocks whilst on the moon surface. How exactly do you propse this was faked? The rock is publically available for viewing and can even be loaned to you for research, it's not like NASA are hiding the stuff away refusing to let people see it.
04 August 2008, 04:45 PM
#190
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So much of this is about detail. If you look at the detail available in the "official story" it is extensive, one bit of evidence builds on top of the next. With the CT story, there is a significant lack of detail and one claim doesn't support another and can indeed even be contradictory. Th CT "story" isn't a story, it's a collection of soundbites that just don't hang together.
04 August 2008, 04:48 PM
#191
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Pretty compelling yeah. Cast iron guarantee, nope. We've established that over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
04 August 2008, 04:51 PM
#192
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In fact Olly, in some ways you surprise me, you're totally anti-religion, yet you're prepared to believe this based on the balance of probability, after all's said and done. Not sure that's entirely consistent, but for the love of God (lol) please don't analyse that here, just worth thinking about perhaps.
04 August 2008, 05:04 PM
#193
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In fact Olly, in some ways you surprise me, you're totally anti-religion, yet you're prepared to believe this based on the balance of probability, after all's said and done. Not sure that's entirely consistent, but for the love of God (lol) please don't analyse that here, just worth thinking about perhaps.
04 August 2008, 05:19 PM
#194
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). But still, as OllyK points out, there is a mountain of compelling evidence that men did, in 1969, walk on the moon, and bring back moon rock, take pictures, and all the rest of it. You say you have an open mind, and I have no real reason to disbelieve you, but open to what exactly? Simply saying that it is possible that it was faked simply isn't good enough. If you don't believe the available evidence, but cannot offer a plausible alternative, then why doubt? When I say plausible, I mean one that cannot reasonably be shown to be incorrect, or, is based upon incorrect facts or understanding of what actually happened or the science behind it.
With your reasoning, we have no reason to believe anything!
And don't get Olly started on religion, we have had the SN debate for 2008 on that!
Geezer
04 August 2008, 07:04 PM
#195
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05 August 2008, 08:07 AM
#198
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I'm not anti-religion, I just don't believe in a god, due to the lack of any evidence. I do believe in the lunar landings due to huge amounts of compelling evidence that the CTers haven't been able to provide a remotely compelling alternative answer for. Entirely consistent IMO, I let the evidence lead me to the conclusion.
Ok you can phrase it like that. OR you could take the God botherers' point of view that there is compelling evidence (as opposed to proof) for the existence of God, yet you've decided that God doesn't exist. For the moon landings, compelling evidence is good enough for you, given that there's no definitive proof, whereas for God that's not sufficient apparently. Do you see the dichotomy?
Your only comeback is that you don't accept the God believers' definition of "compelling evidence". Well guess what, i don't believe the definition of "compelling evidence" for the moon landings either! That makes my position consistent, if nothing else. As and when either are proved to me, i'll believe in them.
05 August 2008, 08:12 AM
#199
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But do you think you're able to post without using derogatory words like belittling though? I don't mind discussing this, but that's just unnecessary isn't it? You prove it happened, you can tell me i'm belittling his efforts. Deal?
05 August 2008, 08:16 AM
#200
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Geezer, hopefully my answer to Olly addressed your points too. It's about proof and faith. I'm just cynical, especially given the political climate at the time, as i seem to have to repeat every post. Go to America, you'll find a whole lot more like me over there!!
05 August 2008, 12:16 PM
#203
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Les how many more times are you going to spout the same hollow drivel? I don't fekkin care what you think. Tell it to the 8% of Americans who are obviously jealous of their own country. Fof ****'s sake listen to yourself. You are not the authority on this subject, you do not know the truth for 100% certain, just get off you frigging high horse and let other people make their own decisions, without being partonised to the nth degree by armchair experts like you.
I think your "high horse" is much more so than mine, but you have no evidence whatsoever for what you say and I have at least seen the hardware a few times and met a good number of people associated with the Nasa space exploration including an astronaut who walked on the moon. Of course no one knows the truth for certain, but the weight of evidence backing them is far too strong to be able to accuse them without some real evidence to the contrary.
All that apart, I have just as much right as you to express my own feelings about this even if they are different to yours, without having to endure the unpleasantness which has been so evident.
As a matter of interest, have you yet managed to find the evidence to prove what you said about me having lied to the whole of Scoobynet about my background. Either back that statement up or retract if you please!
Les
05 August 2008, 01:09 PM
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05 August 2008, 01:36 PM
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Christ, is it impossible to discuss something in here without it resulting in this?
Any topic which is controversial is going to produce some pretty strong viewpoints. To slate someone because their opinion differs from your own?
Come on Gents, we aren't school kids.
People have their own opinion, that's what makes forums like this interesting. Not to hurl abuse about or try and belittle someone for their belief/opinion.
Tel's explained why he has the opinion he has, and you have yours.
You can carry on till the cows come home, neither of you will change the others viewpoint.
Any topic which is controversial is going to produce some pretty strong viewpoints. To slate someone because their opinion differs from your own?
Come on Gents, we aren't school kids.
People have their own opinion, that's what makes forums like this interesting. Not to hurl abuse about or try and belittle someone for their belief/opinion.
Tel's explained why he has the opinion he has, and you have yours.
You can carry on till the cows come home, neither of you will change the others viewpoint.
05 August 2008, 02:00 PM
#210
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Interesting viewpoints from Telboy and Les though.
Telboy says he doesn't believe in God because of lack of evidence, yet is happy to believe the CTers with no evidence. I know that Telboy will now probably respond that there is no compelling evidence for either, but they are not similar at all.
Les talks about all the evidence for NASA having gone to the moon and how important that is, but from previous discussions, we know that hard evidence clearly means little because of a belief in God!
I'm not trying to stir things up, but it does seem contradictory.
Geezer