What's That All About Then???
07 February 2002, 12:17 PM
#31
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I think what Seamus was referring to are the people who potter down the slip road at 40mph and don't even to bother to look at the traffic until they get to the bottom.
I guess these are the same people who stop at every roundabout and only look right once they've come to a halt (whether these are also the people who regularly pull up two car-lengths short of the stop line, much to the surprise of the people following, is a different matter).
I guess these are the same people who stop at every roundabout and only look right once they've come to a halt (whether these are also the people who regularly pull up two car-lengths short of the stop line, much to the surprise of the people following, is a different matter).
07 February 2002, 12:41 PM
#34
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Carl, Seamus,
Since you two seem to be agreeing with each other (
) can I just add that yes these type of people are muppets BUT whatever they do if you happen to hit them from behind it will normally be judged to have been YOUR fault.
Therefore you are better off hanging back letting them continue to trundle off into their own little world and then getting safely past then as oon as you can.
Since you two seem to be agreeing with each other (
) can I just add that yes these type of people are muppets BUT whatever they do if you happen to hit them from behind it will normally be judged to have been YOUR fault. Therefore you are better off hanging back letting them continue to trundle off into their own little world and then getting safely past then as oon as you can.
07 February 2002, 12:44 PM
#35
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Why dont you just put a snow plough scoop on the front of your scooby and shove them out the way - it is perfectly legal, i know it is , someone said so.
Better still blame the road designers that dont give long enough on roads to allow traffic to let you in.
Better still blame the road designers that dont give long enough on roads to allow traffic to let you in.
07 February 2002, 12:49 PM
#37
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Andy300,
>you sure??????!!!!!!! would like that confirmed, i was always >under the impression that the slip road is -motorway- rules ie no >stopping and if you cant join safely then you are to go on to the >hard shoulder
Can't imagione that is correct for one minute. What would happen if there is a 3 lane slip road and you are in the right hand lane? You would have to cross two other lanes to get to the hard shoulder.
Still working on a definitive answer, though.
>you sure??????!!!!!!! would like that confirmed, i was always >under the impression that the slip road is -motorway- rules ie no >stopping and if you cant join safely then you are to go on to the >hard shoulder
Can't imagione that is correct for one minute. What would happen if there is a 3 lane slip road and you are in the right hand lane? You would have to cross two other lanes to get to the hard shoulder.
Still working on a definitive answer, though.
07 February 2002, 12:52 PM
#38
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Subaru wouldn't fit one.
My original point was it is annoying and dangerous, and seems to be getting more frequent. Motorway driver training would probably be the answer yes. I'll try and be more patient.
My original point was it is annoying and dangerous, and seems to be getting more frequent. Motorway driver training would probably be the answer yes. I'll try and be more patient.
07 February 2002, 01:10 PM
#39
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I've just been on a "road driving" course run by Hampshire County Council, ok - not skid pans etc but more about driving safley in Urban areas and included the afternoon spent motorway driving..my collegue (also a Scooby driver) asked this question about undertaking and accoding to the Driving Instructor (excellent guy) as long as you don't purposly (sp?!) move out to undertake i.e. sit behind him/her then pull over to the left to go around them, then you are intitalled to cruse past...(as long as the traffic in your lane is moving!) Not sure I'd risk it though, even if he was very sure of himself! 
However, we all agreed this is not something we would do if Mr PC was behind us and you'd have to be aware that the middle lane guy might not have noticed you!
Oh - Btw, don't blame the highway engineers - they're all bound by Government guidlines! (and land owners who don't like selling...)
Jen
but more about driving safley in Urban areas and included the afternoon spent motorway driving..my collegue (also a Scooby driver) asked this question about undertaking and accoding to the Driving Instructor (excellent guy) as long as you don't purposly (sp?!) move out to undertake i.e. sit behind him/her then pull over to the left to go around them, then you are intitalled to cruse past...(as long as the traffic in your lane is moving!) Not sure I'd risk it though, even if he was very sure of himself! However, we all agreed this is not something we would do if Mr PC was behind us and you'd have to be aware that the middle lane guy might not have noticed you!
Oh - Btw, don't blame the highway engineers - they're all bound by Government guidlines! (and land owners who don't like selling...)
Jen
07 February 2002, 01:20 PM
#40
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Andy300,
http://www.roads.dtlr.gov.uk/roadsafety/hc/12.htm
Joining the motorway
233. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a
road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway.
- You should give priority to traffic already on the motorway
- check the traffic on the motorway and adjust your speed to fit
safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
- not cross solid white lines that separate lanes
Lane discipline
238.
- You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency
[edited to try and get the link working]
[Edited by devils_ad69 - 2/7/2002 1:22:34 PM]
[Edited by devils_ad69 - 2/7/2002 1:30:04 PM]
http://www.roads.dtlr.gov.uk/roadsafety/hc/12.htm
Joining the motorway
233. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a
road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway.
- You should give priority to traffic already on the motorway
- check the traffic on the motorway and adjust your speed to fit
safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
- not cross solid white lines that separate lanes
Lane discipline
238.
- You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency
[edited to try and get the link working]
[Edited by devils_ad69 - 2/7/2002 1:22:34 PM]
[Edited by devils_ad69 - 2/7/2002 1:30:04 PM]
07 February 2002, 01:31 PM
#41
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It is quite easy to get frustrated when going down a slip road and the cars dont go quick enough for you, especially when you are in a reasonably powerful car.
I agree with the majority tho. The slip road is there to get upto speed with the traffic so you can merge without having to stop (unavoidable sometimes yes but not most of the time).
In the same way tho, ppl that sit in the inside lane when approaching a point where a slip road JOINS the motorway and dont move over when its obvious the oncoming traffic have nowhere to go. You even get ppl that match the pseed of the oncoming traffic !!!
Middle lane cruisers also get on my **** [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Its not undertaking unless you move to the left hand lane, pass the vehicle, and then move back out immediately. If you move over and then pass and stay on the left lane then you did NOT undertake.
07 February 2002, 01:39 PM
#42
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madness Puff. have seen it many times though.
To be honest i'm naughty and tend to just plough along in the 3rd/4th lane, though if it's clear I do pop into the 1st lane, cos of all the ****** sticking in the middle ones.
Thing that was great about the USA was undertaking being legal, or if not legal then tollerated to the extereme, made for easy going when the big momma in her car was sat in the middle of the freeway, both sides streamed past her
must admit to undertaking quite a bit, I know, I know, not legal, but come one, when bimmer drivers and rep man are inthe 'fast' lane and 'mrs micra' is in the middle lane and the inside lane is free, well, what would you do? must say I do not do this all the time, just sometimes.
To be honest i'm naughty and tend to just plough along in the 3rd/4th lane, though if it's clear I do pop into the 1st lane, cos of all the ****** sticking in the middle ones.
Thing that was great about the USA was undertaking being legal, or if not legal then tollerated to the extereme, made for easy going when the big momma in her car was sat in the middle of the freeway, both sides streamed past her
must admit to undertaking quite a bit, I know, I know, not legal, but come one, when bimmer drivers and rep man are inthe 'fast' lane and 'mrs micra' is in the middle lane and the inside lane is free, well, what would you do? must say I do not do this all the time, just sometimes.
07 February 2002, 01:41 PM
#43
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Ritchie1,
In the same way tho, ppl that sit in the inside lane when approaching a point where a slip road JOINS the motorway and dont move over when its obvious the oncoming traffic have nowhere to go. You even get ppl that match the pseed of the oncoming traffic !!!
If joining traffic has nowhere to go then they should stop!!!! It might sound harsh but if a vehicle already on the motorway can't move right safely and to reduce speed would cause unnecessary braking behind them, then they are perfectly entitled to maintain their course.
You have no god given right to join that motorway, nor for them to give way to you.
In the same way tho, ppl that sit in the inside lane when approaching a point where a slip road JOINS the motorway and dont move over when its obvious the oncoming traffic have nowhere to go. You even get ppl that match the pseed of the oncoming traffic !!!
If joining traffic has nowhere to go then they should stop!!!! It might sound harsh but if a vehicle already on the motorway can't move right safely and to reduce speed would cause unnecessary braking behind them, then they are perfectly entitled to maintain their course.
You have no god given right to join that motorway, nor for them to give way to you.
07 February 2002, 02:03 PM
#44
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On the overtaking-on-the-left thing, I can sort of 'confirm' this seems to be OK as I've been on the M40 near London (always a joy 
) behind a police car & as we tottered along at 70 in the left lane, we were passing all manner of Volvos, Discoverys etc. in the middle lane. Right hand two were blocked, left empty aside from me & the white car with reflectors all over it in front.
So it would appear it's OK, as long as done in the right manner I presume (been in that lane for about 3 miles I suppose before the queue came along). As in not breaking the speed limit, driving erraticly/aggressively, etc. Or maybe he was just in a hurry
) behind a police car & as we tottered along at 70 in the left lane, we were passing all manner of Volvos, Discoverys etc. in the middle lane. Right hand two were blocked, left empty aside from me & the white car with reflectors all over it in front.So it would appear it's OK, as long as done in the right manner I presume (been in that lane for about 3 miles I suppose before the queue came along). As in not breaking the speed limit, driving erraticly/aggressively, etc. Or maybe he was just in a hurry
07 February 2002, 02:38 PM
#45
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devils
dont know about my colleague, dont think he got done for tailgaiting as he was quite a way behind, but a fully laden HGV dont stop as easy as a scooby especially when you arent ready to stop
As for the road law, fair enough, i thought i had heard to use the hard shoulder, but what you said also doesnt mention stopping on the slip road, just to adjust your speed acordingly ie slow down or speed up to fit in somewhere
dont know about my colleague, dont think he got done for tailgaiting as he was quite a way behind, but a fully laden HGV dont stop as easy as a scooby especially when you arent ready to stop
As for the road law, fair enough, i thought i had heard to use the hard shoulder, but what you said also doesnt mention stopping on the slip road, just to adjust your speed acordingly ie slow down or speed up to fit in somewhere
07 February 2002, 03:05 PM
#46
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Andy300,
re: your trucker mate. The point being, though, is that every driver ought to be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear on their own side of the road. Don't do that and you hit another vehicle up the a** and you'll get the blame!
The HC states that you mist give priority, which (in my view) means stop. If you can get away with just rolling then fine, but if you cannot, then you should stop.
re: your trucker mate. The point being, though, is that every driver ought to be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear on their own side of the road. Don't do that and you hit another vehicle up the a** and you'll get the blame!
The HC states that you mist give priority, which (in my view) means stop. If you can get away with just rolling then fine, but if you cannot, then you should stop.
07 February 2002, 03:13 PM
#47
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yeah mate, not trying to say my colleague wasnt in the wrong himself, obviously he should always be alert and not -assume- the other driver was going to go on the motorway as he should have done (cos still not seen anything yet that says you can stop on the slip road) but that doesnt mean that he was the ONLY one at fault and the other driver still should not have stopped
08 February 2002, 01:27 AM
#49
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This sort of thread amuses me!!! It illustrates the point why police have to speak to drivers regarding any breach of traffic law.
People on this thread have said that we should clamp down more on middle lane hoggers etc as they are dangerous, and this is the reason why we do! However, the same people will whinge if stopped for other forms of law infringement...
The flipside is that the middle lane hoggers are probably whinging about speeders or people wheelspinning as some of the more 'enthusiastic' drivers occasionally do.
This just highlights the reason why Police have to enforce offences regarding ALL aspects of traffic law.
If we DIDNT then there is always a certain group of people who will be pi55ed off with us and when we DO we pi55 another group off!!!
As long as we do cover the whole Spectrum of offences then at least we are not discriminating (although each group will obviously think we are)
I dont know how well Ive explained that point....
People on this thread have said that we should clamp down more on middle lane hoggers etc as they are dangerous, and this is the reason why we do! However, the same people will whinge if stopped for other forms of law infringement...
The flipside is that the middle lane hoggers are probably whinging about speeders or people wheelspinning as some of the more 'enthusiastic' drivers occasionally do.
This just highlights the reason why Police have to enforce offences regarding ALL aspects of traffic law.
If we DIDNT then there is always a certain group of people who will be pi55ed off with us and when we DO we pi55 another group off!!!
As long as we do cover the whole Spectrum of offences then at least we are not discriminating (although each group will obviously think we are)
I dont know how well Ive explained that point....
08 February 2002, 09:10 AM
#51
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Danbo,
I agree that the police are between a rock and a hard place on motoring offences.
On the one hand, the officers on the ground have to follow policy. I am sure they are not all wanting to hide in bushes zapping people for 36mph in a 30mph.
On the other hand, they probably have very little influence on poicy since it seems to be made up by local councillors and [so-called] Road Safety organisations who believe adherence to speed limits is the sole answer.
I'd be perfectly happy to see the police adopt a zero tolerance approach to ALL motoring offences WHERE the driving is unsafe, i.e. tailgating, middle lane hogging, etc... and that includes speeding (again, though, if the speed makes the vehicle unsafe)
In addition, I've got no problems at all with things like VED cameras except that it is only a matter of time before this big brother type monitoring is widened in scope.
I agree that the police are between a rock and a hard place on motoring offences.
On the one hand, the officers on the ground have to follow policy. I am sure they are not all wanting to hide in bushes zapping people for 36mph in a 30mph.
On the other hand, they probably have very little influence on poicy since it seems to be made up by local councillors and [so-called] Road Safety organisations who believe adherence to speed limits is the sole answer.
I'd be perfectly happy to see the police adopt a zero tolerance approach to ALL motoring offences WHERE the driving is unsafe, i.e. tailgating, middle lane hogging, etc... and that includes speeding (again, though, if the speed makes the vehicle unsafe)
In addition, I've got no problems at all with things like VED cameras except that it is only a matter of time before this big brother type monitoring is widened in scope.
08 February 2002, 09:27 AM
#52
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If joining traffic has nowhere to go then they should stop!!!! It might sound harsh but if a vehicle already on the motorway can't move right safely and to reduce speed would cause unnecessary braking behind them, then they are perfectly entitled to maintain their course.
You have no god given right to join that motorway, nor for them to give way to you
You have no god given right to join that motorway, nor for them to give way to you
You miss my point. If the cars in the inside lane CAN move over to the right hand lane then they should, its only good manners.....
If they can't then there obviously gonna need to stop
08 February 2002, 12:00 PM
#53
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Richie1,
That's not what you said, originally, though. :rolleyes
You said: In the same way tho, ppl that sit in the inside lane when approaching a point where a slip road JOINS the motorway and dont move over when its obvious the oncoming traffic have nowhere to go. You even get ppl that match the pseed of the oncoming traffic !!!
The way this reads is that the people already on the motorway should move over simply because the vehcile joining the motorway has nowhere to go. That's not the case. Vehicles already on the motorway should move right if they can do so safely. Obviously if they can't, they won't, and if they can't then the vehicle joining should stop.
Glad we got that sorted
That's not what you said, originally, though. :rolleyes
You said: In the same way tho, ppl that sit in the inside lane when approaching a point where a slip road JOINS the motorway and dont move over when its obvious the oncoming traffic have nowhere to go. You even get ppl that match the pseed of the oncoming traffic !!!
The way this reads is that the people already on the motorway should move over simply because the vehcile joining the motorway has nowhere to go. That's not the case. Vehicles already on the motorway should move right if they can do so safely. Obviously if they can't, they won't, and if they can't then the vehicle joining should stop.
Glad we got that sorted
02 July 2002, 10:41 AM
#56
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Why don't they put signs up that say "Keep Left, except when overtaking"? This sort of thing should be drummed into people -- it's exactly what causes tailbacks on motorways.
Edited to say you're right about the 2-lane section: I usually avoid it now as it seems impossible to average more than 50mph on it, particularly at the weekends.
[Edited by carl - 2/7/2002 10:43:27 AM]
Edited to say you're right about the 2-lane section: I usually avoid it now as it seems impossible to average more than 50mph on it, particularly at the weekends.
[Edited by carl - 2/7/2002 10:43:27 AM]
02 July 2002, 10:52 AM
#57
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Sorry to hear about your crash Chuck, sounds like you were lucky, very common m/c getting run over after a crash - and increasing I'd bet.
The old highway code is getting a little hazy etc. I know that it's not approved of but is it technically illegal to undertake? Perhaps this is one for Danbo. Surely in many situations, such as above it's actually safer to do so...
Edited to say surely lane hogging constitutes driving with out due care.
[Edited by NENO - 2/7/2002 11:02:43 AM]
The old highway code is getting a little hazy etc. I know that it's not approved of but is it technically illegal to undertake? Perhaps this is one for Danbo. Surely in many situations, such as above it's actually safer to do so...
Edited to say surely lane hogging constitutes driving with out due care.
[Edited by NENO - 2/7/2002 11:02:43 AM]
02 July 2002, 11:04 AM
#58
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Sliproads, there can't be anything worse than someone sitting in the outside lane of a slip road doing 40-50mph to join a busy motorway, even worse when they bottle it at the end and hit the brakes when you're looking in your mirrors to try and squeeze out between two lorries.. This seems to happen where the M6 joins the M1 nearly everyday, thats a 3 lane slip....
Chukster, glad you're OK, car moved over on my brother a couple of years back and knocked him off his Blade. Didn't stop, brother with broken collar bone and poorly bike. Crazy people..
[Edited by Seamus300 - 2/7/2002 11:11:48 AM]
Chukster, glad you're OK, car moved over on my brother a couple of years back and knocked him off his Blade. Didn't stop, brother with broken collar bone and poorly bike. Crazy people..
[Edited by Seamus300 - 2/7/2002 11:11:48 AM]
02 July 2002, 12:00 PM
#59
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Whats the 40-60mph time for an old lady/man whatever in a Nissan Micra?
Tuesday I was going down the sliproad behind a Scooby Wagon, in front of him a BMW 328. Bimmer man can't decide which gap to go for, decides to slow down and go behind a lorry instead of in front. Scooby in front gets behind lorry too, I have to brake to let 2 lorries past before I can enter. I know I could have easily got in front of first lorry. Bimmer man then stayed in outside lane for 12 miles where he stayed after I left the M1.
I can generally spot the gap I'm going to go for at the start of the slip road. Devils this isn't about accelerating/adjusting for gaps, it's people who sit at 40 mph regardless of any gaps then slam their brakes on at the end because there is a lorry in the way etc Either way it's not often the M way traffic is less than 56mph when free flowing so your entry speed should be at LEAST that. My opinion for what it's worth
[Edited by Seamus300 - 2/7/2002 12:05:11 PM]
Tuesday I was going down the sliproad behind a Scooby Wagon, in front of him a BMW 328. Bimmer man can't decide which gap to go for, decides to slow down and go behind a lorry instead of in front. Scooby in front gets behind lorry too, I have to brake to let 2 lorries past before I can enter. I know I could have easily got in front of first lorry. Bimmer man then stayed in outside lane for 12 miles where he stayed after I left the M1.
I can generally spot the gap I'm going to go for at the start of the slip road. Devils this isn't about accelerating/adjusting for gaps, it's people who sit at 40 mph regardless of any gaps then slam their brakes on at the end because there is a lorry in the way etc Either way it's not often the M way traffic is less than 56mph when free flowing so your entry speed should be at LEAST that. My opinion for what it's worth
[Edited by Seamus300 - 2/7/2002 12:05:11 PM]
02 July 2002, 12:16 PM
#60
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"Please bear in mind, though, that when joining a motorway from a slip road, you must give way (i.e. stop) if you can't join safely."
you sure??????!!!!!!! would like that confirmed, i was always under the impression that the slip road is -motorway- rules ie no stopping and if you cant join safely then you are to go on to the hard shoulder!
Little story I know about this a colleague told me: Basically my colleague used to be a trucker and was in his fully loaded HGV going down a slip road behind a morris minor. the old dodder in the morris got to the edge of the slip road then decided to stop (even though there was room for him to get on) and look round
my colleague slammed on the brakes trying to stop his truck, somehow ended up going into the motorway forcing another HGV to jackknife into the 3rd lane which in turn, somehow forced a mini over on to the other side of the motorway on its roof my colleagues truck had tipped sideways at this point onto a car (driver was only slightly hurt) and all cargo onto the motorway. Bear in mind all this took seconds to do, the resulting block off of this side with the two trucks and crushed car and mini on its roof on the other side caused major traffic and tailbacks, and all along in the few seconds that it took for this to happen, the old dodder had started moving and tottering off up the motorway at 40mph totally unaware at what happened probably with his wife saying "oh look at the tree dear, what lovely scenery!"
[Edited by ANDY330 - 2/7/2002 12:19:09 PM]
you sure??????!!!!!!! would like that confirmed, i was always under the impression that the slip road is -motorway- rules ie no stopping and if you cant join safely then you are to go on to the hard shoulder!Little story I know about this a colleague told me: Basically my colleague used to be a trucker and was in his fully loaded HGV going down a slip road behind a morris minor. the old dodder in the morris got to the edge of the slip road then decided to stop (even though there was room for him to get on) and look round
my colleague slammed on the brakes trying to stop his truck, somehow ended up going into the motorway forcing another HGV to jackknife into the 3rd lane which in turn, somehow forced a mini over on to the other side of the motorway on its roof my colleagues truck had tipped sideways at this point onto a car (driver was only slightly hurt) and all cargo onto the motorway. Bear in mind all this took seconds to do, the resulting block off of this side with the two trucks and crushed car and mini on its roof on the other side caused major traffic and tailbacks, and all along in the few seconds that it took for this to happen, the old dodder had started moving and tottering off up the motorway at 40mph totally unaware at what happened probably with his wife saying "oh look at the tree dear, what lovely scenery!" [Edited by ANDY330 - 2/7/2002 12:19:09 PM]