dpb

Theres a clear lack of Spoonage on this thread

stilover

Glad I was out shooting last night.

TBH I have a Pedigree Staffie. He does suffer from a few Pedigree ailments, ie. easily irritated paws, ear infections, and has to eat Gluten free food etc.

Apart from that, he's a gorgeous little dog. Wouldn't change him for anything.

Devildog

Same difference mate - most pedigree breeders will show at some level or another.

It wasn't a dig, btw - just an observation.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

I must admit I do sort of agree with devildog now, me and the wife recently lost our 2 yr old springer due to some kind of fit, and after watching last nights program we have decided that our next dog instead of a gsd/weinmeriener/collie/lab will probably be a mutt from a rspca centre

Devildog

To me, that's totally wrong (although I'm no genetics expert) but I expect you'll find the same happens with many other animal types (horses, farm livestock, etc)

Certainly not what the KC club should be advocating.

I'd like to know if it happens in the wild though, with other animal types?

Clarebabes

Yeah, there are so many unwanted heinz 57s out there who have been proved to live longer, so who would buy a pedigree? Is it vanity? Showing off that you spent £2K on a dog? Tell me please, cos I don't understand.

lil_kimmy

Regardless of whether they showed the extreme cases or not, I am so glad the BBC did this programme. Alot of people would not have known the things that were shown on there last night. People need to be aware so that they can ask the relevant questions when they go to buy a dog themselves.

I must admit I did cry at the beginning with the boxer having a fit. I cannot imagine how terrible it must be for the dog and owners

David Lock

Pikeys.

dpb

Would he have to have special food if he were 'just' an common or garden Staffie ..!?

Devildog

It shouldn't be about spending 2k on a dog purely for vanity (although with some it clearly is)

Clare, in all aspects we make purchasing decisions based on everthing from cost to function to perfrmance to asthetics. From clothes to cars to houses. Its not just about longevity.

Same with dogs, cats, horses, and so on.

Different dogs have different personalities, traits, abilities, intelligence, etc.

Devildog

Good point - and look what happens there

Devildog

My mate is gluten intollerant - are you suggesting that's because he's the subject of inbreeding

Right enough - he hails from Essex originally so you could be on to something there

dpb

yes its about quality of life for the animal - if its so inbreed it cant get thro the day with out some malardy or other its hardly reasonable .

of course once upon a time dogs *were* used for a purpose

dpb

Well its something to do with genetics DD im pretty sure of that - my mate also had it and his mother eventually died of it

Devildog

Agree 100%

But most pedigree dogs will be happy and healthy animals, living full and enjoyable lives.

Its about balance mate - yes the problem exists, but its very much the minority.

What is in all probablility a bigger problem is the indescriminate breeding of various dog "types" by back street breeders where health problems are not identified and eradicated (as they are by reputable pedigree breeders)

MrJim

Not condoning violence but that horrible woman who breeds ridgebacks needs a bloody good slap

AnnieN

All of those women were horrid, I can't believe one of them had a go at the reporter for asking about the Cavalier's disease after it won a show, saying it was out order!!! Mmmm what's more out of order breeding from a genetically defective dog or asking the money grabbing t**t about it after a show

Not that I am dissing pedigree dogs entirely, but I would only ever get my dogs from rescue centres and they have always been cross breeds and absolutely gorgeous with it. The other thing is (and this may just be me) but I like having a dog that's different. My pup is a labrador cross (although no idea what with) but she's basically a short lab and so will always look like a puppy - how cute and before her I had a GSW crossed with a staffie now she was absolutely beautiful!!!

Markus

Did they happen to have any Weimaraner breeders on the program, if so, can someone tell me the breeders names please as I'm rather curious.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

out of 10k pugs in the uk only 50 are pure as nature intended. That to me is a majority

Devildog

I think you are misisng the point with that one mate.

50 are considered pure in terms of bloodline. Thats a very different concept to "as nature intended"

It doesn't mean that 9,950 are genetically "flawed" and 50 are "perfect" Just that 9,950 of them aren't pure genetic matches to the 50 or so.

Indeed, the chances are that the 50 or so "pure" pugs are weaker genetically.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

I understood that comment to be saying that there are 10000 pugs in the Uk but in terms of genetic diversity there's the equivalent of only 50 due to the prolonged interbreeding. I may have misunderstood though.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

thats exactly what I typed on my keyboard however the words came out differently

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

I'm also not convinced it is a minority. Most are doing nothing illegal but there is a question mark over whether it is right. Things like putting down Dalmatians with hearing issues when they are in fact a perfectly healthy dog is a bit off.

Also, not sure the RSPCA etc should be involved. They are charities looking for extreme abuse cases and are hard pressed. The KC needs to take control of this and if it means a loss of revenue to clean up the industry (because an industry is what it is) then they should do it.

5t.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

yep agreed, its the kc accepting these breeds so it should start with them and then filter down. It would be good if the dogs have to pass a medical that looks for things specific to their breed and obviosuly a basic check as well. This should be done by the KC before the dog can be classed as a pedigree. Of course there can still be some genetic mutations, but it should be a lot less than what there are now. The only problem is, what happens if the dog fails the medical, some of the breeders may just get rid of the dog (hopefully they would still sell it to recoup their costs for the medical)

Devildog

I "think" you've misunderstood. The comment was about "rarety" as i read it, not genetic diversity.

But I could be wrong, of course.

Whether a pug was ever as nature intended is, of course, another matter. Which makes a mockery of the whole "pure" bloodline thing. The first pug didn't just "appear" as if by magic.

Genetic diversity is extremely hard to achieve if you consider that, ultimately, a given breed can be traced back through time to pretty much one sire and one dam.

The family tree has to start somewhere.

darren...

As someone who owns a pedigree and a mongrel I thought I'd chip in...

I really wasn't impressed that the Kennel Club were appearing to take such a blinkered view that they would ignore the evidence and worry about upsetting/alienating the breeders.

I also found it interesting that another country had banned inbreeding due to scientific evidence - surely that could be the KC's excuse?

However what was missed is that some breeds are actually bred in a responsible manner - for example the greyhound we got, a rescue ex-racer, can be traced back quite a few generations. (The flip side to that is that the greyhounds are treated as racers and the conditions they're kept in aren't ideal and that impacts on their health )

IMHO it would be much better if dogs were bred for their ability as oppose to lineage.

Frosty The Snowman

The program suggested that out of the 10K dogs there were only 50 distinct genetically different dogs, so effectively there were 200 clones of each of the 50 individuals. With growing dog populations it should be going the other way.

I think if I had bought a pup off the woman who had sold litters after the diagnosis of the skull/brain disease I would be asking for my money back. To me the breeders shown are treating the dogs as a commodity and there should be laws in place to stop the inbreeding, same rules as humans, cousins breeding is only acceptable in the Fens and Wales

What was shown, oh I'm sure it was very one sided, was disgusting. This is coming for someone who is not a pet lover but I don't like to see animals suffering. It took me right back to my GSD I had when I was a kid that had bad hind quarters and ended up dragging herself about, died when I was 8 and probably accounts for me not liking pets these days.

little-ginge

bred in total 34 times - 26 times after it was diagnosed. Irresponsible tw@t. Has she given any thought as to the pain and suffering the offspring might suffer as a result of her selfishness? And the heartache, and financial costs to those unwittingly sold on to??

She should be stripped of any titles, and banned from breeding & showing dogs