ricardo

Momentum is speed multiplied by mass. Assuming the cars have the same mass the the car that is travelling faster has more momentum. That's physics.

"B" can accelerate as fast as he likes, but until his actual speed exceeds that of "A" then he has less momentum.

In this case "B" (LH) has more ability to put traction down, so can accelerate faster and eventually catch "A" up, but at the line he was still 6kph slower and still had less momentum.

Devildog

No it sounds right, however as he was clearly overtaken by Kimi immediately after the corner was cut, he could not have been accelerating at a higher rate at all times following his exit from the chicane, which would be required for the claim of higher momentum by cutting the corner to stack up (assuming the cars are of equal mass)

Any subsequent advantage in momentum could only have been due to the Mclaren's accelaration rate after Kimi had passed him, not up to and during.

Which was probably due to traction, and nothing to do with him cutting the chicane.

I'm with Mr Brant on this - the laws of physics do not support that cutting the corner gained him any advantage after Kimi re-passed him.

Devildog

Didn't you see the big red car going for the second apex

He quickly changed direction and cut the chicane to avoid a collision.

Honestly mate, if you can't see that you are dillusional.

PS - I wanted Kimi to win..

FlightMan

Me too. I'm going to keep a running count of how many cars cut the corner, and get a penalty.

PeteBrant

What, you mean just before he let offf and let Raikonnen through before tucking in behind him on exactly the same line?


And this gives him an advantage how exactly?


You cyncis just aren't thinking things through.

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Very good video. Just shows how much better Hamiltons car was than Kimi's. He was catching him so quick, was just a matter of time before he got passed.

Kimi braked really early for the chicane and it almost looks like Hamilton could have rear ended him if he hadnt moved to the outside. Once on the outside there was very little time to think "where shall i put this now".

Watching the video and having the benefit of hindsight and the reactions of a superhuman, he could have tucked in behind Kimi for the exit of the chicane, but instead chose the safest option available, cut it.

PeteBrant

Exactly. As proven by the rate at which Hamilton caufght up in the first place, and the subsequent "wobble" suffered by Raikonnen on the straight.

scooby L

No..he was already hard on the brakes (as seen in the pictures back on page one or 2)

That vid highlights just how EARLY Kimi braked... he's the sole reason for them being side by side in the chicane, not Lewis doing an all or nothing dive, but actually having so much more grip he's still hitting his normal dry weather braking spot. He did well to miss the back of the Ferrari. Fair play Lewis..

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Shouldnt the question be, would Hamilton have had better momentum cutting the chicane, rather than exiting properly?

FlightMan

If this post was by PSL, he's have been infracted into oblivion by now for trolling!

At 57 seconds, where is Hamilton supposed to go? He has 3 options.

1. Stop on the track. Never happens.
2. Bounce over the green kerb and take KR and himself out. Stupid.
3. Miss the corner and give back the place. As per the rules.

Then at;

2m.14 seconds, both LH and KR leave the track at the same point.
At 2m.16 seconds, LH rejons the circuit.
at 2m.22 seconds, KR rejoins the track, no further behind LH than he was when he left, having driving a longer distance around the corner.

Explain how, having driven a longer distance, he ends up no further behind? Could it be he was going faster by actually not driving on the circuit?

scooby L

Well now it's all hearsay..

In qualification EVERYONE was saying you needed to go wide on the exit of the bus stop to get the best traction.... suddenly (because lewis's McLaren was working better) Lewis has had an unfair advantage because he was on the inside and obviously had better grip there... you'll say anything other than "Lewis was quicker and deserved to keep his win" wouldn't you..

scooby L

It would have made no difference, Lewis was still going to catch and pass Kimi.... Kimi had no answer to the extra grip, and probably would have taken them both out if pushed..(would I suggest the Ferrari team would do such a thing)..

Lewis had to nail Kimi, and nail him quickly... job done... pity the FIA meddlers had their excuse to wave the red flag.

I really hope Monza see's a McLaren 1,2..... with the Ferrari's behind Toyota

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

In the last 3 laps, Lewis was quicker. As for the other 41.........

scooby L

Oh yes Kimi had the legs on Lewis no doubt.... Massa was struggling (most of the time) he did go well on the prime tyres though, that was unexpected... his and Kimi's cars must be set up so differently.

EddScott

Is there when Martin Brundle says something like "Look how much speed KR has off the corner"?

KR was completely off the track and rather than make the effort to get back on it he stayed off track to get a better line and so arrived much faster at the 2nd turn than LH. However he couldn't turn it into a decent overtaking move.

KR used the fact he was way off the track as an advantage to close on LH. Hardly fair to say LH had a speed advantage hence why he had more momentum in the straight.

Which again makes bugger all sense as they clearly swapped positions.

load of old bollards if you ask me. It would teach the handbag throwers a lesson if they have a few messy races and Kubica or Hiedyfileld (beardy boy) wins.

FlightMan

Yes, it's at 2m.14 seconds. Look at the speed he finds off the circuit.

scooby L

I didn't see much point raising that issue... what could the FIA do if McLaren counter claim with that evidence... "oh he crashed.... no advantage made" end of claim.

Boro

iTrader: (1)

No other so-called sport in the world has caused this much of a scene. F1 is dead, long live erm.... green bowling (or whatever its called)

Dream Weaver

I think you need to visit Spec Savers

Not only did LH catch KR up at a massive rate of nots, he also flew by him approaching the chicane, it is only the fact the KR gave him no room to pull off the move that LH had to take to the cuttin move.

Even then, it's very very obvious from that in car footage that they were both up to similar speeds before the hairpin.

Even Kimi himself has said the move was good, so how come we still have people believing te penalty was correct?

Dailymotion - www.FormulaMag.com - Hamilton-Kimi, a video from Budhardt. F1, Belgium, 2008, Hamilton, Бельги�

People, please WATCH that video. He was up the gearbox of KR into the chicane, yielded the position back (thus discounting the mention of momentum, and gaining time from ealier posts), and THEN he overtakes KR back into the hairpin.

It's as clearcut as a move ever could be, LH believes so, KR believes so and even Charlie Whiting said it was OK, jesus!!!

scooby L

Can I add...

between 1 minute 5 and 1 minute 8, can someone explain when the "slip-stream" tow happend? As far as I can tell, Lewis got no "help" at all on that straight... as soon as Kimi dives left to cut lewis out (effectivly putting him in his slip-stream) Lewis dives right under braking.

Just to put that theory to bed.

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Kimi did himself no favours leaving the inside so open like that.

The Chief

Looks like it was deemed OK by race control!!!!

F1 News > McLaren reacts to penalty

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Do you really think Kimi is going to say otherwise? I think he'd rather have Lewis win the chamionship than his own team mate.

Massa: Hamilton move too optimistic - F1 | ITV Sport

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

You must be trolling, that makes no sense, why would KR want someone who is leading the championship to gain more points than Massa? Surely he now has a better situation as LH only got points for 3rd thus closing the gap to himself. Thus yor argument is flawed n twisted to suit your own messed up logic and love for Ferrari. Also flawed by the fact that KR is a racer at heart and called it as he and most of the world saw it.

Anyway your thoughts are completely irrelevant as KR has a very slim chance of winning the championship anyway now

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

on comment from Massa,

“What Lewis did is the sort of thing that can happen, but I think he was maybe a bit too optimistic in thinking he could just hand back the position, albeit only partially to Kimi and then immediately try and pass him again," Massa said on Ferrari's official website..."

Notice the word 'Albeit' in that 'statement' I know Massa's english is pretty good, but that really does not sound like a word in his vocabulary to me. Scripted Ferrari team response or what!

Flatcapdriver

Refer to post 170. I've already covered this.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Anybody think this could be a cynical ploy from the F1 powers to stir up interest in the sport coming up to the final 5 races? Get peoples blood up and discussing it in the pubs is great for viewing figures.

judgejules

This about sums it up

... to be a Steward

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Covered what? I am quoting form the actual statement that declares he was penalised for cutting the chicane and gaining an advantage. Admittedly the regulation quoted makes no mention of an advantage, but the statement does.

Not defending the stewards whatsoever, just conveying some information that seems to be continually ignored by some of the posters here.

Sonic'

Apparently the FIA have just released a statement stating that Ferrari have won the next 5 races