Odds on

The FIA removed gravel traps to make it safer. Lewis gave the position back, which involved letting off the throttle.

Letting off the throttle is a big thing when lap times are timed in thousand's of seconds....

Kimi can't drive in the wet like Hamilton.. Shame, but not grounds to penalise IMO

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

If he had stayed on track then kimi would have taken him out result win for massa

he abode by the rules and was behind. Could have sworn kimi was swerving about before he got taken. Thats not to bad considering they are only allowed one movement

PeteBrant

I don't buy the "maybe Kimi would have been faster out of the chicane than hamilton, had he not cut the corner" argument.

Hamilton clearly had a faster car at that point, he ate up a lead of 2 seconds, basically in one section. Raikonnen was crawling round.

And if you look at the footage - Raikonnen has a "wobble" as he is powering down the straight - which is going to reduce the amount of energy pushing him forward - Hence Hamilton was able to keep pace and out break him into the corner.

As an aside, over the finish line, Raikkonen was goin 6 kmh faster than Hamilton - The momentum argument is utterly null and void.

It really an utter mystery why the FIA have done this, and I look forard to thier explantion in the coming appeal - Because personally I think they are going to have a hard time defending it.

mykp

You know I was fuming 10 minutes ago after watching the highlights that is until I read this thread now i'm laughing again.

P1Fanatic

You keep waffling on about that but the simple fact is there wasnt a gravel trap there so its irrelevant - may as well say if Osama Bin Laden was there he would have taken him out and trashed his car in the process.

Are the rules published online? Id like to see what it states regarding taking a detour and relinquishing the lead as well as how long before you make another overtake. Especially now that Mclaren have provided the technical data showing lewis backed off the throttle.

The one justice is that Mr Monotone Raikkonen didnt get any points. Did chuckle at his after race remark "At least are going in the right direction".

Simon

PeteBrant

As a wise man once said, "If my auntie had bollocks, she'd be my uncle"
They are on the F1 website, I couldn't see anything about relinquishing place (i,e, when you have to do it, and how long for etc), it does confirm that the 25 second penalty is standard for an infringment in the last 5 laps.

stevie boy

as others have said KR forced him off, where was he suppossed to go??

what should he of done, let him past an wait 0.3secs / 0.7secs / 1.2 secs before gassing it????

also as they went into the corner roughly side by side and came out effectively with LH behind, where's the advantage to LH?? KR is further infront



NUT

KR forced him wide, LH took avoiding action. other option was to stand his ground and risk an early bath for the leading 2 cars. he gained advantage by missing out 2nd part of the chicane, he lets KR back past, advantage canceled. incedent now over, its irrelivant that he took him on the next turn that incedently included KR punted him once the pass was complete. if anyone should have to answer its KR as he for me was boarderline aggressive / unfair forcing him off, then punting him, then when they both ran off his massive arc that was in no hurry to get back on the track that gave him a massive run on LH (what if the was a gravel trap there ffs = he'd of got stuck!!)

SHELL



stevie

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

Its defiantly a what if type of penalty for both but Massa/Ferrari got away with last race. No crash was caused but potentially Massa’s pit lane nr miss was much worse in my opinion.
Defiantly biased stewards

Sonic'

Kimi ran very wide twice, and in both instances gained quite a bit of momentum, thankfully the 2nd momentum shoved him into the wall

and as mentioned, Kimi shunted Lewis, so should he not be penalised for that ?

Just to throw a line out to someone, what if Kimi ran into the Gravel Traps (that mysteriously disappeared) woudl it be a different story then

Dracoro

OK, the gravel point is largely irrelevant, just making the point that he used the tarmac to his advantage.

AIUI, the rules are that if you do this you must immediately relinquish the gained position. Hamilton didn't, he got some speed up then relinquished his position. If he had lifted off as soon as he got back on the track and let the Ferrari pass then there'd be no penalty. He didn't, we went someway down the straight before doing so.

The Chief

Having watched the highlights tonight, Mclaren handed over data from LH's car which showed he had backed of and was 6kmh slower than Kimi's when they crossed the line just after the incident.

Dracoro

Well, he didn't gain anything and Hamilton wasn't hindered! all Raikonnen did was damage his own front wing. For all we know, LH may have brake tested him!

Sonic'

How many drivers got penalised at the start of the race for running very wide ?

I dont think I have ever seen a driver yet relinquish a gained position immediately, its usually a little bit further on

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

WHAT where you watching different footage
These cars are mega quick he wasn't going to stop
Just lifiting should be enough

Sonic'

I thought Kimi said after the race that he had nothing to lose, so punting LH off the track was an option (as is prevailant throughout Ferrari's chequered history in F1)

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Wrong, you have to relinquish the position before the line or the proceeding corner, which he did!

Odds on

If he did, it's a shame the wheels didn't fall off the losers car then... Might have saved him the indignation of crashing so pathetically shortly after...

All in, Lewis drives well in the wet.

Dracoro

Did he actually say punting LH off was an option?
Either way, stupid thing to do as nearly always the "punter" comes off worse htting from behind (as opposed to clipping rear wheel with front wheel).

stevie boy

i think he lifted off in a perfectly reasonable ammount of time, he's got to regain composeur (sp) sort the gears out, check mirrors where's KR - ie don't give him a brake check when lifting off, so i think this argument holds as much water as your now defunct imaginary gravel trap theory!!

stevie

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

The wet and low down force Bring on next years rules
If he is allowed to race due his ability and team

Odds on

Indeed. Well see some true action if he stands the pressure. Which, I think he'll enjoy TBH.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Stevie and Pete Brant I am going to try this one more time because I am like a dog with a bone

OK playing Devil's advocate.

I think the only reason the FIA could look to penalise Hamilton is becuase they feel that if he had backed off and not cut the chicane then he would have been further back than he ended up by doing what he did even when you take into account the fact he backed off after cutting the chicane.

That is all I am saying. OK?

rbaz

iTrader: (1)

Maybe but at the pace he was going it was going to happen anyway

itr786

what...

that your a moron.

Sonic'

When all said and done he didnt gain anything as Kimi spun twice and slammed into the wall

And his 'immediate' gain on that chicane, didnt cause Kimi to run several hundred yards wide twice, spin twice or stick it in the wall

Odds on

Problem being, he (Lewis) wasn't in a red car. This situation wouldn't have arisen otherwise.

Sonic'

I know,

Just reading the press conference, and James Allen has asked LH some questions about the incident, and I dont think Lewis has done himself any favours by saying he was still accelerating (James asked him to confirm this twice) but he wasnt on full throttle to allow Kimi to get his position back

ScoobyWon't

FFS, you all must know by now that the third steward who retired last year was replaced by Max's right hand man this year Do you even need to question why McLaren were penalised at every opportunity?

I'm just surprised Max didn't reinstate Kimi as the race winner. But that's what Bernie would have wanted to liven up the championship, so it won't happen.

LH may have overtaken, but he then stuck the car on the green stuff, so effectively penalised himself anyway. If Massa had been close enough to overrtake while Lewis was doing a bit of rally-cross, they'd have left the results as Massa first, Lewis second.

The bias has been shown for years, but now it's only more evident. Before Scumacher would crash into his opponents and get away lighter than anyone else) so things could be balanced but since Mosleygate, you must have been expecting Max to try and get revenge at every opportunity as he thinks it was a McLaren set-up.

Adidas

It will all change once Jean Todt takes over from Mosley when he retires.....oh hang on a minute

As for the decision, disgraceful

corradoboy

Mosley is 68 so he should just foo off to Madam Helga's Retirement Stalag, and as for Ecclestone, at nearly 78yo with a personal worth in excess of £2.4bn why the foo is he still putting in hours ? When you have enough for the next 20 generations of your family banked I'm afraid it's time for relaxation in my book !