PeteBrant

Right you are talking about net debt which is running at £542billion as of the end of July. As a percentage of GDP thats around 38%

So in better shape that most of the 80's/90's, then.

mrtheedge2u2

I could not find figures for those dates so cant agree or disagree

Martin2005

how many 'illegal wars' have this government had then?

mrtheedge2u2

I think it is widely accepted by law-makers and public the recent war in Iraq is illegal

Martin2005

I think that it is absolutely NOT accepted by law makers that Iraq was illegal, it is however a popular mantra used by those who opposed it.

The Zohan

Lets not forget the open door policy to anyone from Europe especially eastern europe and the stiains on healthcare and education schools of people coming in to use our systems as they see fit

PeteBrant

How many have Labour fought, then? With the full support of the conservatives?


Bearing in mind that the war had the full backing of the security council.

The Barnet formula has been in existance since the 70's.

And its not all at England expense, don't be silly. Scotland "costs" the UK around £32billion a year, and contributes £24billion a year in direct tax take. You then have North Sea oil revenues to add on, which are around £12billion a year, so they are comfortably in profit.

If Scotland is sensible enough to see how best to spend public money I am not sure why they should be penalised for it.

Devildog

Pete, its not the overall raw numbers that matter. Its about efficiency and where specifically the money is spent. Throwing cash at something doesn't necessarily improve it. I've seen millions thrown at struggling businesses only for them to fail anyway.

It is also an irrelevance. Who is to say that any other party in power would not have done the same?


Its a matter of fact that many doctors will tell you they are under huge time pressure.


Interesting. Perhaps your weekly shop doesn't, but everyone I know will say it has. I don't care what the official (and manupulated) stats say. I base my point on personal experience. The CAB, BBA and others all say that the cost of living has increased at levels significantly above the quoted inflation rates. By all means believe the "official" line if you want, but I'll believe the day to day reality of what I experience.

PCRS report 22,000 cases, BCS survey suggests 130,000. The government like to run with the former (surprise, surprise)

Either way, something is wrong in the land of the figures.

Anyway, I form my view from discussions with people I know in the police and the legal profession.

Yes, however the impact of that has not yet hit the stats. Its also about the only good idea that labour have come up with of late. Oh, and I think they stole it from the tories [/quote]



Gotta have balance

Devildog

Thanks Pete. Saved me the trouble of pointing that out. Its a shame that the English media only ever present one side of that particular story.

Alcazar, you can have your Barnet formula payment and shove it up your ignorant (in the true sense of the word) **** . In return for which, we'll keep our oil revenues thank you

PeteBrant

Of course it matters how you spend the money, but you have to have some money to spend in the first place!
Well, we have the previous 18 years to knwo that the Tories certainly wouldn't have done.

They ran public services into the ground - The ones they didn't sell off that is, the ones we did auctions, well we are now reaping the benefits of that heating bills.

Should they not be, then?


Like I said, by *any* measure we have had sustained low inflation.

i think ther eis obviosuly an increase in Youth on Youth violence - But there is alo a definite drop in almost all other aspects of crime.


This sort of thing drives me mad - Does it matter where the idea came from? Should that mean you aren't allowed to enact it?


Again, I do not think the Labour party are a panacea for all that ails us, but neither are they the embodiment of the AntiChrist

Zammo McGuire

**** are wonderful things!

Labour however are more like a bunch of **** warts, hth

Devildog

12 years of growth at what cost?

I would agree if 12 years of growth were followed by a period of stability, followed by more sustained growth.

I can't agree on the basis that 12 years of sustained economic growth may about to be followed by the equivalent of finding a sheer cliff at the top of that gentle climb, but yet blundering on anyway...

Martin2005

Well it beats the hell out of 5 years of growth followed by falling off a cliff...remember those days?

Devildog

Not to the extent they are.


No, any measure would also include how much cash we have left at the end of every month. Or, alternatively, how little debt we carry.

Any measure would include the guidance set by the Citizen's Advice Bureau as supported by the British Banking Association and consumer credit legislation as to what is a reasonable allowance for living expenses when pursuing debt recovery from individuals

By those three measures alone, the true cost of living, and the increase in that cost of living bear no resemblance to the official stats.

You believe the spin, Pete, I'll believe the physical reality.

You keep missing the word "reported" here.

Of course they should, I was just having a little dig (which clearly worked )

Agreed. They are, collectively, a bunch of lying, arrogant, *******. At least with the AntiChrist you would know what to expect.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I think we can all agree on something.

The real danger is that the conservatives are now going to get into power for the same reason Labour swept to such a landslide:

No one thinks a new government could do any worse!

That's certainly not the best basis on which to elect a new party!

Ns04

warrenm2

"12 years of growth down to Labour"

You miss the distinction between correlation and causation

RyanSTI

iTrader: (1)

it scares me how many people buy into labours figures on health and crime. its almost as if the country are drones.

just wait though if the **** does hit the fan and we all get laid off and dont have to work, were all going to have some time on our hands then we'll see some change.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

You sweatys always bleat about oil revenues. You forget that quite a bit comes from off the English coastline too, and anyway, how much money did SCOTLAND put into exploration?

My sources reckon that even WITH oil revenues, sweatys are STILL grabbing dosh from us, to the tune of £3 billion a year. Source: Labour government, about 6 months ago

NOW who's ignorant? I refute YOUR ignorant, and raise you a "daft"

Alcazar

Gordo

my favourite Labour memories are:

1. The promise not to increase income tax in the election before last - and then immediately put 1% on NI with no ceiling.
2. Promised a referendum on the European treaty - and then reneged upon it.

The national debt (much higher than quoted on here - they conveniently don't count PFI liabilities) and massive and inefficient public spending (which have been a key factor alongside the reclassification to disability benefit of massaging unemployment) were all to be expected from these clowns. New Labour it ain't - the Old Labour colours are shining through.

Gordo

Martin2005

One of us is!

It's frankly laughable to suggest that none of the good things that have happened in our economy are down to the government, as laughable as suggesting all the good things are down to them.

There has been some pretty good global reason why our economy has performed well, but it should be remembered that the UK economy sailed through the 911 downturn, when the US economy hit the buffers. When the Asian financial markets went into meltdown, many economies were adversely affected, ours wasn't. Also we have consistently ourperformed all major European countries over the past decade.

Our economy is in trouble right now, as are many major economies, this is in part down to the way our finances have been run, and in part down to things out of anyones control. You can't blame the government for the downturn and at the same time give them no credit for the good times. Unless of course you are just typing on autopilot ie anything the Labour party does is wrong, and anything the other lot do is therefore good. I mean if we had a tory government for the last 12 years, I suspect that praise would have been heaped upon them, and the downturn blamed upon 'global events' by many SN posters

So yes we have had a good economy, and yes some of that must be down to the way it's been handled.

RyanSTI

iTrader: (1)

none of them are any good, there all lieing, question dodging *****. somthing that really bugs me is the fact that they think they can walce around doing whatever the hell they like, this goes for the government, and the local councils. gordon brown should be driven around in a g wizz.

Bram

Its a funny thing exploration, its mostly done by the oil companies no matter where or what coast line its on. Its the gamble they take to make their daily wod for their share holders or do you think its the English due to BP, but then again BP stands for British Petroleum.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Post of the week from the most unlikeliest of sources

Mitchy260

How about the benefits system? Labour have taught people to skive instead of work as benefits are so rewarding financially. The unemployed have now moved onto the incapacity list with ''bad backs'' and ''depression'' so the unemployed list doesn't look as big.

The Iraq war and the countless lives lost.

The crazy housing market. FTB's nightmare

Policing and its associated increase in paperwork, knife crime, laughable prison sentences etc

Immigration

Can go on and on

Government are a shambles and i really cannot understand anyone other than the benefits brigade who would vote for them in the next GE.

Tarquin Po

They have hiked fuel duty which is good as it helps keep the poor off of the road; ditto the changes to car tax - big thumbs up from me.

When will the plebs, sorry, population, realise that having a car is a priviledge and not a right. Chavy *******

unclebuck

It really amazes me that anyone still buys into any aspect of New Labour, full stop.

SJ_Skyline

Sod reasoned arguement, they're all a bunch of ***********.

lozgti

Actually that wouldn't worry me if it was Caroline Flint,the Housing Bird.

Don't know what the hell is wrong with me just lately

Leslie

You have to go back to just after WW2 when we had a real Old Labour Attlee bunch with honourable and honest politicians to find a government which actually governed for the good of the people using straightforward common sense without putting their own selfish requirements first.

Not been a lot of that since!

Les

Devildog

LOL

Just caught up with this.

Your sources are wrong mate. (No surprise, bit of an own goal admitting it was the Labour government )

Labour doesn't want an independent Scotland. Period. Thats UK labour, BTW. If England and Wales would be so much "better off" without us, you have to seriously question why Labour would not support a referrendum on Independence.

And the answer doesn't take a rocket scientist to worrk out. I'm sure even you can work it out.

The vast majority of the oil fields fall into Scottish waters. "England's" investment in Exploration has been repaid many, many times over. Much of the cost has, of course, been met by the private sector.

Take the blinkers off mate