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Old 17 September 2008, 01:01 PM
  #121  
Leslie
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
Les, how many times do you think you've mentioned the statistical anomaly of the last ten years, even though you consistently ignore that within that last ten year period we've had one, if not two of the hottest years on record?

I reckon it's about 15 times now, and i'm still wondering what futile reason you have for keep doing so. Are you waiting for a reply from one person in particular? If you are, can you tell us who it is so we can get you your response so you don't have to trot it out each and every fekkin thread about the climate? It's twice on this thread alone already.
I wonder why you have to start jumping up and down as though you had a hot poker up your jacksey as soon as a statement is made which does not agree with your ideas. I am certainly not going to apologise for stating my own views.

This is directed at you by the way, my other posts were not, if they were I would have said so. Best not to make assumptions of course.

I mentioned what I did again because those who are shouting about global warming ignored it because it did not suit their pronouncements and I am perfectly entitled to do so anyway. For your interest I have already mentioned it previously in another thread.

The temperatures are measured in different ways and Nasa use satellites to do so. Their results are quoted to be within 0.03 of a degree. They say that there has been a small fall in atmospheric temperature over the last ten years. There has been a small increase in surface temperatures overall which is put down to solar warming rather than any greenhouse effect, but more due to local environmental changes since there have been no significant increases in unpopulated areas. The unusual rise in 1998 was due to volcanic eruptions and the effects of El Nino. That rise has now disappeared. The temperatures taken by balloons were found to be less accurate than originally thought due to the sun's effect on the balloons' temperatures.

I was surprised at your example of hotter summers proving global warming. Did not notice that here this summer thats for sure! Our daily temperatures have been averaging around 15-18 degrees C so far in "sunny" Devon. it is also worth mentioning that there have been no sunspots for a long time now. We are at a sunpot minimum as happens every eleven years or so but it is unusual to see none at all. It is said that sunspots can also affect the Earth's climate.

Les
Old 17 September 2008, 01:10 PM
  #122  
TelBoy
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No, it hasn't been "as soon as" you start spouting a statistically irrelevant and actually factually inaccurate load of tripe, it's the 15th or so time we've all had to endure it, so i'm mentioning in case you weren't aware yourself how tiresome it had become, long ago.
Old 17 September 2008, 01:11 PM
  #123  
Martin2005
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Originally Posted by Leslie
I wonder why you have to start jumping up and down as though you had a hot poker up your jacksey as soon as a statement is made which does not agree with your ideas. I am certainly not going to apologise for stating my own views.

This is directed at you by the way, my other posts were not, if they were I would have said so. Best not to make assumptions of course.

I mentioned what I did again because those who are shouting about global warming ignored it because it did not suit their pronouncements and I am perfectly entitled to do so anyway. For your interest I have already mentioned it previously in another thread.

The temperatures are measured in different ways and Nasa use satellites to do so. Their results are quoted to be within 0.03 of a degree. They say that there has been a small fall in atmospheric temperature over the last ten years. There has been a small increase in surface temperatures overall which is put down to solar warming rather than any greenhouse effect, but more due to local environmental changes since there have been no significant increases in unpopulated areas. The unusual rise in 1998 was due to volcanic eruptions and the effects of El Nino. That rise has now disappeared. The temperatures taken by balloons were found to be less accurate than originally thought due to the sun's effect on the balloons' temperatures.

I was surprised at your example of hotter summers proving global warming. Did not notice that here this summer thats for sure! Our daily temperatures have been averaging around 15-18 degrees C so far in "sunny" Devon. it is also worth mentioning that there have been no sunspots for a long time now. We are at a sunpot minimum as happens every eleven years or so but it is unusual to see none at all. It is said that sunspots can also affect the Earth's climate.

Les
So given all the factors you state here, the earth should be much much cooler than it actually is. You are actually making a very good arguement in support of MMGW Les
Old 17 September 2008, 01:14 PM
  #124  
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Life in this thread yet! :P
Old 17 September 2008, 01:25 PM
  #125  
Leslie
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Originally Posted by Martin2005
So given all the factors you state here, the earth should be much much cooler than it actually is. You are actually making a very good arguement in support of MMGW Les
Only as far as sunspots are concerned Martin, I felt I had to be honest and mention it. They do say that sunspots can be a factor in warming the Earth. The rest of the argument does not support GBW. However, since they say there is no GBW at the moment, there may well be an increase in temperature when the sunspots return and the extra sun's brightness produces a warming effect.

Pretty poor response Telboy, try removing the poker!

Les

Last edited by Leslie; 17 September 2008 at 02:17 PM.
Old 18 September 2008, 01:57 AM
  #126  
Klaatu
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Originally Posted by Jay m A
According to the programme last week, the satellite data used to calculate the 10 year fall in global temperature was wrong, due to the satellite's orbit reducing in height over the period. When it was recalculated to compensate for this - it showed the Earth had indeed been warming over those 10 years.
Yeah, "scientists" are also now suggesting methods used to determine temperature between 1941 and 1975 which showed a cooling trend, were also wrong and claim there was actually warming. Of course, for some at least who need to SEE, there was a significant cool period in the northern hemisphere during that time.
Old 18 September 2008, 02:01 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
BUT, climate IS changing, and all other things being equal, unless the Earth has suddenly entered some new volatile era all by itself, the only variable i see is the six billion people pumping crap out into the atmosphere that weren't doing it before. With the greatest respect, i'm honestly staggered that anyone halfway intelligent can deny that man is having some sort of impact.
That's the issue. Impact, or cause? Apparently, the "debate" is over, AGW is happening and CO2 humans release is the cause. Anyone halfway intelligent and who knows how CO2 behaves will know this is not true.
Old 18 September 2008, 11:37 AM
  #128  
Leslie
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If there was not a natural greenhouse effect from the greenhouse gases which are present in the atmosphere, the Earth would be pretty cold, they say an average of -19 degrees instead of the average +15 at the moment. We would be well and truly in an ice age!

The most effective greenhouse gas in the atmosphere by far is water vapour. It is said to produce up to 70% of the greenhouse effect. Are they concentrating on the wrong gas then? Shouldn't they be taxing us all on making tea/coffee and cooking at home? Of course it is very easy to use CO2 as the big excuse. Methane is a bit more difficult!

The fact that global atmospheric temperatures have not increased in the last decade gives the lie to it all.

Les
Old 19 September 2008, 02:21 PM
  #129  
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This sums it up nicely:
I'LL BE JUST FINE, SAYS PLANET
Old 19 September 2008, 08:54 PM
  #130  
TelBoy
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Originally Posted by Klaatu
Anyone halfway intelligent and who knows how CO2 behaves will know this is not true.

So that's an awful lot of scientists about 1,000 times more intelligent than you, then? sheesh, how can thay ALL have got it so completely wrong? Beggars belief, doesn't it?
Old 19 September 2008, 08:56 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Leslie
Pretty poor response Telboy, try removing the poker!

Les
Mission accomplished, at least we won't all have to endure the same tired old $hite from you any more, not unless you really DO want to be the object of ridicule more than usual. Job done, marvellous.
Old 21 September 2008, 06:29 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
So that's an awful lot of scientists about 1,000 times more intelligent than you, then? sheesh, how can thay ALL have got it so completely wrong? Beggars belief, doesn't it?
Clearly you cannot be bothered to find out how CO2 actually behaves and would rather believe Al Gore and the IPCC, which is a rather sad situation to be in, but not unexpected. There are many gullible fools around.
Old 21 September 2008, 06:31 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
Mission accomplished, at least we won't all have to endure the same tired old $hite from you any more, not unless you really DO want to be the object of ridicule more than usual. Job done, marvellous.
We'll just have to endure the same old gullible tripe from you!
Old 21 September 2008, 11:05 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Jay m A
According to the programme last week, the satellite data used to calculate the 10 year fall in global temperature was wrong, due to the satellite's orbit reducing in height over the period. When it was recalculated to compensate for this - it showed the Earth had indeed been warming over those 10 years.
Second story on here Financial crisis: Lehman misses out on carbon credit scam - Telegraph
Old 21 September 2008, 11:33 PM
  #135  
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Well we had the final episode of "the pseudo-Big Yin show" earlier, and true to form it was a pile of biased, un-scientific, BBC sponsored propaganda!!

Within seconds he was spouting "global warming is happening and it is all man's fault", and it continued despite many examples as to why it perhaps may not be.

Clever little ice-cores showed that the temperature of the Earth rose by as much as FIVE DEGREES in just over a year many moons ago. Funny that, i don't recall there being planes and trains and automobiles in those days - still, it was probably man's fault then n'all

Oh, and the polar sea-ice is melting much faster that the climate models have predicted - thus we are all doomed. It never occurred to him that maybe, just maybe, the models were incorrect in the first place????

Al Gore would be proud of him

mb
Old 23 September 2008, 11:26 AM
  #137  
Leslie
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
Mission accomplished, at least we won't all have to endure the same tired old $hite from you any more, not unless you really DO want to be the object of ridicule more than usual. Job done, marvellous.
Now that I am back from my weekend at Goodwood I can reply.

It is so obvious that you let your personal animosity towards me rule your thinking to such an extent that you are unable to produce a reasoned response to my posts. It is a shame to see someone who is presumably intelligent having to scrape the barrel to even be able to insult me!

It is your personal gods, ie scientists, even if they are not in the pay of the government, who have produced the information about the lack of global warming. Since you appear to be beset with your own personal dogma over global warming, that can be the only reason that you seem to be in denial of the full picture.

Still not necessary to descend to personal insults though.

Les
Old 23 September 2008, 11:31 AM
  #138  
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Well, if it isn't global warming there is a new twist:

Nature's budget 'has run out' - Yahoo! News UK

Steve
Old 23 September 2008, 11:38 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by boxst
Well, if it isn't global warming there is a new twist:

Nature's budget 'has run out' - Yahoo! News UK

Steve

The answer to this is population control. The planet simply cannot sustain 6+ billion humans. Cut down the population, you reduce our consumption, and our waste products.


Right then, who's up for a nice little war?
Old 23 September 2008, 11:43 AM
  #140  
Leslie
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Originally Posted by boxst
Well, if it isn't global warming there is a new twist:

Nature's budget 'has run out' - Yahoo! News UK

Steve
I would certainly be pretty worried about that situation.

Les
Old 23 September 2008, 11:58 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by FlightMan
The answer to this is population control. The planet simply cannot sustain 6+ billion humans. Cut down the population, you reduce our consumption, and our waste products.


Right then, who's up for a nice little war?
Yes. Although to quote some book I can't remember (may even have been Red Dwarf), we have got too good at war so it isn't really possible anymore. You can have 'warettes' like Iraq but not that many people die. Aids looked as though it would cull the population, but it hasn't really.

It may have to resort to Chinese '1 family 1 child' type policy unless something changes in the medium-term (next 20-30 years).

Steve
Old 23 September 2008, 12:00 PM
  #142  
Martin2005
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Originally Posted by FlightMan
The answer to this is population control. The planet simply cannot sustain 6+ billion humans. Cut down the population, you reduce our consumption, and our waste products.


Right then, who's up for a nice little war?
It's certainly going to be much easier to change our behaviour than reduce population. I do not buy the arguement that the Earth cannot sustain 6 billion people, because right now it demonstrably does. The question should be can the Earth continue to sustain 6+ billion people if we do nothing to change the way we live, I suspect not btw.

This and the next generation are in for a really bumpy ride if the science is right. I don't think we can bury our heads in the sand, pretend our activities are consequence free, and hope for the best. We owe the next generation more than that.
Old 23 September 2008, 01:08 PM
  #143  
TelBoy
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Les , seriously. Get the ******* high horse out of your ****.
Old 23 September 2008, 05:57 PM
  #144  
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I think you need to live (and observe) for a few hundred millennia before you can draw any reasonable conclusion
Old 23 September 2008, 07:12 PM
  #145  
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Rabbos.... dont get in the way of a reasonably nonsensical argument
Old 23 September 2008, 07:47 PM
  #146  
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[QUOTE=Martin2005;8150459]It's certainly going to be much easier to change our behaviour than reduce population. I do not buy the arguement that the Earth cannot sustain 6 billion people, because right now it demonstrably does. The question should be can the Earth continue to sustain 6+ billion people if we do nothing to change the way we live, I suspect not btw.QUOTE]

Not sure how 6 billion on the planet today means the planet can sustain that many? Even more worrying, the population is forecast to reach 9 billion by 2045 at current birth rates. Rainforests being demolished, fish stocks depleted etc means we're doomed

I've said for some time that the global warming is as nothing to the over-population of the planet. i.e. we are an out of control organism in a closed system. Think bacteria in a petri dish - they cheerfully increase in numbers until their food runs out - and the population crashes.

Problem is it's soooo impalatable to suggest that people shouldn't have the right to procreate that no government will get round to it until it's way too late. Ho hum.

Gordo
Old 24 September 2008, 11:38 AM
  #147  
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Rabbos.... dont get in the way of a reasonably nonsensical argument
Dunno what came over me, must be C02 poisoning
Old 24 September 2008, 12:14 PM
  #148  
Leslie
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
Les , seriously. Get the ******* high horse out of your ****.
You just can't do it can you. You would actually make life easier for yourself if you realised that you are not so important that everyone is forced to agree with what you say, and that if they don't, then you don't have the right to use insulting or obscene language to try to browbeat them. Neither is it wise to post slanderous comments about their background-especially when you have no proof!

Incidentally, whatever picture you posted does not show.

Les

Last edited by Leslie; 24 September 2008 at 12:16 PM.
Old 26 September 2008, 09:14 AM
  #149  
Jay m A
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Originally Posted by warrenm2

Quite a good summary, worth quoting

BBC series stitches up sceptics in counter-attack over climate change

As informed questioning of the global warming orthodoxy rises on all sides, the BBC's three-part series Climate Wars, ending tonight, bears all the marks of a carefully planned counter-attack.

BBC science producers were apoplectic at the attention given last year to Martin Durkin's Channel 4 documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle, featuring a galaxy of the world's more sceptical climate scientists. This is their riposte.

Last week, against a range of far-flung locations from Greenland to California, the presenter, Dr Iain Stewart, tackled three of the main arguments of Durkin's film.

In each case the technique was the same. After caricaturing the sceptics' point, with soundbite clips that did not allow them to develop their scientific argument, he then asserted that they had somehow been discredited.

For example, doubts had been raised over the reliability of satellite temperature records which do not show the same degree of warming as surface readings. Dr Roy Spencer, who designed Nasa's satellite system for measuring temperatures, was allowed to admit that a flaw had been found in the system.

But his interview ended before he could explain that, when the flaw was discovered in 1998, it was immediately corrected (although it made little difference to the results).

Likewise, there is a growing case for a correlation between global temperatures and solar activity. Dr Stewart accused Durkin's programme of cutting off a graph which illustrated this at a point when the data failed to support the thesis. Then he did exactly the same himself, not extending his own graph to 2008 in a way that would reinforce the thesis.

Most hilarious of all, however, was a long sequence in which Stewart defended the notorious "hockey stick" graph, which purports to show that temperatures have recently shot up to their highest level on record.

The BBC had a huge blow-up of this "iconic" graph carted triumphantly round London, from Big Ben to Buckingham Palace, as if it were proof that the warming alarmists are right.

There was no hint that the "hockey stick" is among the most completely discredited artefacts in the history of science, not least thanks to the devastating critique by Steve McIntyre, which showed that the graph's creators had an algorithm in their programme which could produce a hockey-stick shape whatever data were fed into it.

There was scarcely a frame of this clever exercise which did not distort or obscure some vital fact. Yet the "impartial" BBC is sending out this farrago of convenient untruths to schools, ensuring that the "march of the lie" continues.
Old 27 September 2008, 05:25 PM
  #150  
boomer
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Default The BBC bias is gradually being exposed!!!

BBC investigated after peer says climate change programme was biased 'one-sided polemic'

Originally Posted by Tamara Cohen
The BBC is being investigated by television watchdogs after a leading climate change sceptic claimed his views were deliberately misrepresented.

Lord Monckton, a former adviser to Margaret Thatcher, says he was made to look like a ‘potty peer’ on a TV programme that ‘was a one-sided polemic for the new religion of global warming’.

Earth: The Climate Wars, which was broadcast on BBC 2, was billed as a definitive guide to the history of global warming, including arguments for and against.

During the series, Dr Iain Stewart, a geologist, interviewed leading climate change sceptics, including Lord Monckton. But the peer complained to Ofcom that the broadcast had been unfairly edited.

‘I very much hope Ofcom will do something about this,’ he said yesterday. ...(continued)...
...and we are paying for the likes of Stewart to peddle these lies!!!

mb
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