Geezer

Absolutely Pete. People just hear Halifax annd think mortgages, but the corporate banking side (BOS) and indeed the retail banking side of our business is huge. We are still making alot of money (albeit not as much, but we are in profit unlike some others)

Thankyou, and so do I! This is the 4th time we have been thorugh this though (I am not Halifax originally) and every time it's much less worse than people fear, so let's hope this one deosn't buck the trend!

Geezer

lozgti

News is saying its not a 'shotgun wedding' and talks have been going on for a long time.

My thoughts were the government dived in after putting the kybosh(spl) on Northern Rock being taken over and were left with a bidding mess and then nationalisation.Don't think that would have gone down well at all if the same situation had arisen.

(and yep,I hope all is ok for employees.Have a mate working for them at the moment and he has so many thing on his plate,the last things he needs is an employment problem...poor kid)

scooby L

Just as long as you're not Harrold Brown...

PeteBrant

Well, there was no way HBOS was going to be allowed to go under. If no one had come in then the Government would have had no option but to prop up HBOS.

I think in this instance they have done the right thing in telling the mergers commision not to get involved - This deal absolutely has to go ahead.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Precisely. They made the decisions regarding who they lent money too.

They also made the decision on where to invest my Mums savings. How do you think she felt when they told her that she had lost 7K in one year? Then they back tracked and said that it was actually a 1K loss. Then she found out that she was being advised by a trainee! Do you blame her for taking her money out of the Halifax? This was 3 weeks ago.

If others were treated in the same way, I'm sorry, but Halifax only have themselves to blame. Also, the telephone customer service is atrocious.
It took me 3 attempts and 45 mins to get put through to somebody who could set a transfer on my account. i only wanted to pay £100 off of the old flexible friend!

Geezer

Why didn't you just set it up online? Takes seconds and is dead easy

Of course we have problems, but what company doesn't? If we were that bad, do you think we would be this successful (prior to this obviously )

Geezer

jonc

Would the Government have had the funds to prop up HBOS. It already spent billions propping up a relatively small bank (Northern Rock) how much would be needed for a giant like HBOS? Money from tax payers is not limitless hence why Gordon Brown personally intervened to facilitate the deal by having a word with Lloyds TSB chairman on Monday. Obviously didn't trust Alister Darling to deal with it after the Northern Rock fiasco.

lozgti

Sure that went down well if true

'You go down to the shops and get some Tartan Paint,I'll sort this bank thing'

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Because I didn't have internet access where I was and I wanted to sort it there and then. I do use the online banking system and I do agree, it is very good.......when it is working!

PeteBrant

In a word, yes they would, I beleive it would have been the BoE obviously, which, in effect, can print it's own money (obviously there is a limit on this, because you start having inflationary problems).

It wouldn't have needed the same funds that it did for NR, because whereas NR was on its knees, HBOS is in relatively "ok" shape.

vindaloo

...

TelBoy

Sheesh, what a morning. Massive short term cash injections from the Fed, SNB, BOC, BOJ and ECB. We still need the Fed to crush the 3 month libor or this will just end up being a temporary stopgap measure. But at least Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley will still be in business by the end of the day. Never seen anything like this, probably never will again.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

So after what we have seen, would you say that the majority of the large firms that were likely to go pop, have all done so? Or would you say that this is just the beginning. I know it is impossible to be certain, but what would be your best guess?

wagrain

HBOS was never in any danger of going bust, in fact HBOS were in a financial position to have bought itself had that been possible!
HBOS have sufficient liquidity to repay all its savings account customers every single penny, but it makes its money by lending money (yours) to others so it could not do that if it repaid everyone.
The Lloyds merger has been talked about at higher levels for ages. It was only because the share dealing ***** have driven the price down so low that it made financial sense for Lloyds to buy it while it was so cheap.

I have ~£30k in Northern Rock and it stayed put throughout all the panic last time. Its now about the safest possible place to be.
I also have ~£25k in HBOS, and that too is staying put.

If people stopped panicking then there wouldn't be such a problem!

TelBoy

It's definitely not just the beginning, no. Lehmans was the "big name". It's still possible that Morgan Stanley and Wachovia merge i suppose, although John Mack will want to avoid that i reckon. Goldmans i think will be able to stay independent. There's nobody else in the direct firing line at this point.

lozgti

And exactly how must HBOS feel about that?

I know I am thick,but if they were so healthy why couldn't they weather the storm and beat a few of these stock market boys playing games?

There is more to this and everything else going on in the financial world IMO.

Bottom line though....just shows you the whole Financial system is built on confidence if a bank can be brought to this by gossip

TelBoy

Exactly the point, and why it's misguided to put the blame on the speculators. Companies do not have the resources to take punts on banks going bust. But holders of the stock are selling their holdings, on the back of what they see as HBOS's financial position, and that was decidedly rocky, given what has happened to the property market in the past year. As a sector, banks are obviously weak, but within that, there are big, and real differences between banks' financial health. HBOS didn't have to merge because it was cleaning up left right and centre, believe me.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

So, they didn't 'need' a takeover. Now they will have over a 25% market share of the mortgage sector, making them the monopoly. Surely this can't be good for the consumer?

PeteBrant

How, by any definition, is 25% market share a "monpoly"?

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Well, unless they have changed how they used to teach economics, a monopoly is defined as a company that has a 25% or greater market share. Or that was how the competition commission defined it I think.

TelBoy

No they didn't need one as such, but it wouldn't have been long before queues started appearing (full circle back to the original thrust of the thread!) and that WOULD have sent them spiralling down. And you're right, the monopoly situation is a very real one now, but probably not at the top of the FSA's in-tray! It will be interesting to see how they deal with it.

jonc

Put simpliy, because share holders bailed out resulting in its share price going down to 88p devaluing the bank which will stop other banks lending it money and therefore would have less liquidity restricting its ability to cover their existing debts. If it can't cover its own debts well then the fat lady starts singing.. Like I said, it doesn't matter how good your books look, its down to the sentiment of the market..

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Sorry Pete, let me re-phrase. A company with 25% or greater market share is viewed to have monopoly powers.

Monopoly - Economics Help

TelBoy

Stanleys and Wachovia in formal merger talks. Is nothing sacred?

PeteBrant

Cheers for that. I didn't know that after 25% market share it is defined as a Monopoly power.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

In a way, there was no going back. So, if this is the way foward to stabilize the market, so be it. I can't think of anything else that will help apart from absorbing this bad debt and dealing with it. Obviously, those who have dealt well are now in a great position in terms of market share.
The sad thing is, a bet that the majority of this has been caused by a small number if key players. Now, everybody else is suffering.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Wow, I'd better note that one down! Something you didn't know!

PeteBrant

Cheeky bast

Devildog

Tel.

Who would you put the blame on then?

TelBoy

The banks themselves. Easy to say with hindsight, but how insane was it to base an entire investment strategy on something as volatile as the housing market? Just because it went up, and up, and up, didn't guarantee that it would continue to do so. As any financial bod can quote you, "the value of your investments may go down as well as up" and no amount of clever AAA-rated glossy re-branding can negate that fact. But nobody thought the unravelling would be so extreme or abrupt, that's what has left these players with no room for manouvre.