EVO VI vs P1
12 February 2002, 07:04 PM
#31
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i have driven a P1 and own an evo6 gsr which i am about to sell to get a new 6 RS2. I also own a Lotus 340r which is very different but still for me the handling, feedback and involvemnet benchmark.
The P1 is a great car, very easy to drive and very inviting. Swift progress feels remarkably fluid and easy. The ride is exteremly soft, teh power band of the engine is great as is the gearing and engien note very very nice. The brakes belong on a Toyota Yaris, there is little steering feel to speak of, the gearchange is fluid but unmemorable and it tends to understeer quite dramatically when pushed hard in a bend (but tweaks shoudl soon sort this).
An evo in comparison feels a lot sharper and more responsive, quicker ratio gearing and acceleration is a lot more "blast, blast" with each quick upchange, sensations of grip and being pinned to teh road are far greater and the whole car feels a hell of a lot stiffer and more solid. To me it has much more of a focused racecar feel as opposed to an everyday car. The drive feels more frenetic and more alive and eggs you on in a very posed but nervous fashion (makes p1 feel laid back). IMO people who say that teh evo ride is way too harsh either don't know the car well enough or may be only used to quasi-performance cars and have not had experience of any real drivers cars. If you think that the ride is hard and that the car is unstable at high speed on ANY uk road then just go out and try a Caterham SLR with msport suspension and Avons. To a point its a matter of taste, I will make my RS2 even harder suspension wise - the P1 to me floated along like a Seat Leon or any number of very normal cars & i hated it. If you want to know how to really dampen uk roads then go drive an esprit v8 - the daddy as far as that is concerned.
Bad sides are warping disks which can be a big problem, change to AP 6 pots asap. The range is crap as we all know (although mpg woudl be NO worse than P1). Servicing every 4500 which is a pain. Steering could do with a bit more feel (but still a lot better than P1) - change bushes, top mounts & quick rack if possible. Low mileage tommi Maks can be had for 23K, a brand new 6 RS2 costs 24K, a new 7 rs sprint with 320bhp costs 26k so anyone qouting the price war on this thread has it all wrong.
So believe - they ARE very different and you need to just drive both to see what appeals and what you want from the car. Evo can be an everyday car (mine used to be) but p1 would do it better. Flat out, evo will always be more thrilling in an adrenalin sense on the w/e. Do you liek the looks, can you put up with the running costs ... there are so many parameters to teh equation of choosing a car.
I do suspect that the P1 is not really the car it was supposed to be, hence the very expensive prodrive bolt on. Have not driven but i suspect that if you don't like the idea of evo ownership there are more focused and involving scoobys to seek out (e.g. sti type 5)
The P1 is a great car, very easy to drive and very inviting. Swift progress feels remarkably fluid and easy. The ride is exteremly soft, teh power band of the engine is great as is the gearing and engien note very very nice. The brakes belong on a Toyota Yaris, there is little steering feel to speak of, the gearchange is fluid but unmemorable and it tends to understeer quite dramatically when pushed hard in a bend (but tweaks shoudl soon sort this).
An evo in comparison feels a lot sharper and more responsive, quicker ratio gearing and acceleration is a lot more "blast, blast" with each quick upchange, sensations of grip and being pinned to teh road are far greater and the whole car feels a hell of a lot stiffer and more solid. To me it has much more of a focused racecar feel as opposed to an everyday car. The drive feels more frenetic and more alive and eggs you on in a very posed but nervous fashion (makes p1 feel laid back). IMO people who say that teh evo ride is way too harsh either don't know the car well enough or may be only used to quasi-performance cars and have not had experience of any real drivers cars. If you think that the ride is hard and that the car is unstable at high speed on ANY uk road then just go out and try a Caterham SLR with msport suspension and Avons. To a point its a matter of taste, I will make my RS2 even harder suspension wise - the P1 to me floated along like a Seat Leon or any number of very normal cars & i hated it. If you want to know how to really dampen uk roads then go drive an esprit v8 - the daddy as far as that is concerned.
Bad sides are warping disks which can be a big problem, change to AP 6 pots asap. The range is crap as we all know (although mpg woudl be NO worse than P1). Servicing every 4500 which is a pain. Steering could do with a bit more feel (but still a lot better than P1) - change bushes, top mounts & quick rack if possible. Low mileage tommi Maks can be had for 23K, a brand new 6 RS2 costs 24K, a new 7 rs sprint with 320bhp costs 26k so anyone qouting the price war on this thread has it all wrong.
So believe - they ARE very different and you need to just drive both to see what appeals and what you want from the car. Evo can be an everyday car (mine used to be) but p1 would do it better. Flat out, evo will always be more thrilling in an adrenalin sense on the w/e. Do you liek the looks, can you put up with the running costs ... there are so many parameters to teh equation of choosing a car.
I do suspect that the P1 is not really the car it was supposed to be, hence the very expensive prodrive bolt on. Have not driven but i suspect that if you don't like the idea of evo ownership there are more focused and involving scoobys to seek out (e.g. sti type 5)
02 November 2002, 02:11 PM
#33
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Well I drive an EVO6 GSR, and my mate has a P1 so I can comment.. Like all these guys have stated here, the P1 has the upper hand when it comes to an everyday car, but it totally depends what you your self wont outa a car.. I went for the EVO, because I like its looks, its feel, and I actually like the more agressive ride. Its true I am in the peccy station every other day, but I didnt buy the car to save on petrol... Its a car I can wake up to every morning, and get a pure adrenalin rush from.. Its so responsive, has so much feel in the wheel, and the feeling of power pushing you forward.. Although I have to say my mates P1 is pretty fast too! 
Only you can make the decision..
Edited to say :- www.lancerregister.com/mlr-main.html <-- EVO forum, have a read etc, but allso very bias!
[Edited by DjacK - 2/11/2002 2:13:27 PM]
Only you can make the decision..
Edited to say :- www.lancerregister.com/mlr-main.html <-- EVO forum, have a read etc, but allso very bias!
[Edited by DjacK - 2/11/2002 2:13:27 PM]
02 November 2002, 05:02 PM
#34
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Springy,
Few pts to note, my friends have the Evo 6 and 7. I have a P1, we swap cars quite a bit around the track etc.
Post above by the dual owner is reasonably ok but flawed.
The Evo will cost you over twice (nearer 3 times) as much to run, not because its a pure rally derivative at all, the P1 is every bit as good. The Evo needs 4500 mile services due to its AYC. No other reason, that and the fact is continually needs brake skimming due to it eating discs - i bought my P1 from ralliart - this is their words! P1 needs serviced half as much for half the cost. (
P1 service costs are around 90-130 quid per 10,000 miles bar the big ones, Evo ones are more like 300 quid per 4,500 miles.)
The Evo range is utter crap, its hard enough to find shell stations in the P1 sometimes without going to Evo fuel tanks. Plan every journey with care in an Evo or you will lose performance by putting **** petrol in it (temporarily). Live next to Ralliart for servicing 3 times a year also
The Evo ride is harder, thats not subjective, its not set up for UK roads and over B class roads with flawed surfaces and twisty bumps the car inspires fear in the unexperienced imho, to be frank even after a year driving the P1, i can switch to the Evo following a friend in my P1 and feel very uncomfortable in the same road the P1 handles with ease. The Evo gets damn twitchy and doesn't feel nimble at all on British B class roads.
Brakes : Prodrive/Alcon upgrade is a must in a P1 you buy, and yes they are better than Brembo's on the P1, i have tested this from 100-0 numerous times, more feel, stop better. Std brakes are poor on the P1 tho.
Performance: Near identical. Not worth arguing over, Evo easier to mod to 350bhp - which makes no difference until above 100, mate is thoroughly annoyed he has done this, since over 100 is sod all use.
Insurance : 25 with 3 yrs NCB - P1 1200 quid, Evo 2k plus, one quote of 1400. It will be more expensive and more difficult to get!
Noise - P1 wins hands down, the whoosh on an Evo is nothing to compensate for the burble from my exhaust
Community - Scooby owners are fantastic and welcoming, never met an Evo owner who will even compare.
With regard to Petoir, spending 31k+ (RRP) on a Tommi special, a P1 with 9k spent on top of 22k used price would be far superior in every dept, food for thought. P1 is an excellent 2nd hand buy.
Have fun whatever you decide
[Edited by P1 Enthusiast - 2/11/2002 5:41:48 PM]
Few pts to note, my friends have the Evo 6 and 7. I have a P1, we swap cars quite a bit around the track etc.
Post above by the dual owner is reasonably ok but flawed.
The Evo will cost you over twice (nearer 3 times) as much to run, not because its a pure rally derivative at all, the P1 is every bit as good. The Evo needs 4500 mile services due to its AYC. No other reason, that and the fact is continually needs brake skimming due to it eating discs - i bought my P1 from ralliart - this is their words! P1 needs serviced half as much for half the cost. (
P1 service costs are around 90-130 quid per 10,000 miles bar the big ones, Evo ones are more like 300 quid per 4,500 miles.)
The Evo range is utter crap, its hard enough to find shell stations in the P1 sometimes without going to Evo fuel tanks. Plan every journey with care in an Evo or you will lose performance by putting **** petrol in it (temporarily). Live next to Ralliart for servicing 3 times a year also
The Evo ride is harder, thats not subjective, its not set up for UK roads and over B class roads with flawed surfaces and twisty bumps the car inspires fear in the unexperienced imho, to be frank even after a year driving the P1, i can switch to the Evo following a friend in my P1 and feel very uncomfortable in the same road the P1 handles with ease. The Evo gets damn twitchy and doesn't feel nimble at all on British B class roads.
Brakes : Prodrive/Alcon upgrade is a must in a P1 you buy, and yes they are better than Brembo's on the P1, i have tested this from 100-0 numerous times, more feel, stop better. Std brakes are poor on the P1 tho.
Performance: Near identical. Not worth arguing over, Evo easier to mod to 350bhp - which makes no difference until above 100, mate is thoroughly annoyed he has done this, since over 100 is sod all use.
Insurance : 25 with 3 yrs NCB - P1 1200 quid, Evo 2k plus, one quote of 1400. It will be more expensive and more difficult to get!
Noise - P1 wins hands down, the whoosh on an Evo is nothing to compensate for the burble from my exhaust
Community - Scooby owners are fantastic and welcoming, never met an Evo owner who will even compare.
With regard to Petoir, spending 31k+ (RRP) on a Tommi special, a P1 with 9k spent on top of 22k used price would be far superior in every dept, food for thought. P1 is an excellent 2nd hand buy.
Have fun whatever you decide
[Edited by P1 Enthusiast - 2/11/2002 5:41:48 PM]
02 November 2002, 05:38 PM
#35
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I got my P1 for 22k, 9 mths old with prodrive/alcon brakes and a magnex BB. It also came with a P1 private plate from ralliart, 23k miles on it, immaculate condition.
All my comments were from my own driving experiences, i don't believe journalists and never will
I suspect you also didn't shop around very well for your P1 insurance, i rang over 100 companies and brokers and never found a single offering cheaper Evo insurance than for a P1. That includes Tesco, Direct line, Elephant, the works.
I am not being antagonistic, your comments just don't weight up properly. Evo is much more expensive to run and a marginally better drive in some conditions, not broken surfaces. To be completely frank anyone saying either car is better needs shot since 2,000 quid spent learning to drive the car would make a tit out of either opposite owner. Its about smiles per pound spent in my book, and the evo doesn't weight up for 0.1% performance difference, more downsides for that imvho.
[Edited by P1 Enthusiast - 2/11/2002 5:46:56 PM]
All my comments were from my own driving experiences, i don't believe journalists and never will
I suspect you also didn't shop around very well for your P1 insurance, i rang over 100 companies and brokers and never found a single offering cheaper Evo insurance than for a P1. That includes Tesco, Direct line, Elephant, the works.
I am not being antagonistic, your comments just don't weight up properly. Evo is much more expensive to run and a marginally better drive in some conditions, not broken surfaces. To be completely frank anyone saying either car is better needs shot since 2,000 quid spent learning to drive the car would make a tit out of either opposite owner. Its about smiles per pound spent in my book, and the evo doesn't weight up for 0.1% performance difference, more downsides for that imvho.
[Edited by P1 Enthusiast - 2/11/2002 5:46:56 PM]
02 November 2002, 06:31 PM
#36
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My tuppence...
I own an Evo 6, never had a P1 or a 22B etc... but been in and behind a few scoobs. My personal opinion is, it doesn't matter which one you get, you'll love it
They're all rally derivatives, all mental, and no matter which you get you'll still be wondering if it was the right choice a few months from now. Then you'll take it for a spin and grin like a fool...
When all is said and done, there's little in it other than bodyshapes, so pick whichever you like the look of best and go for it. There's a big list of the pro's and cons above, and keep them in mind, but ultimately you want the car that's best for you, not someone else.
Derek
PS I've found that Scooby owners don't mind Evo drivers when you get chatting, and Evo owners are normally ex-Scooby owners so there's less antagonism than you might think
Oh, and you don't need to go to Ralliart to have a professional service done, there's a few places that are competent and more handily placed dotted around.
[Edited by NumptyScrub - 2/11/2002 6:33:30 PM]
I own an Evo 6, never had a P1 or a 22B etc... but been in and behind a few scoobs. My personal opinion is, it doesn't matter which one you get, you'll love it
They're all rally derivatives, all mental, and no matter which you get you'll still be wondering if it was the right choice a few months from now. Then you'll take it for a spin and grin like a fool...
When all is said and done, there's little in it other than bodyshapes, so pick whichever you like the look of best and go for it. There's a big list of the pro's and cons above, and keep them in mind, but ultimately you want the car that's best for you, not someone else.
Derek
PS I've found that Scooby owners don't mind Evo drivers when you get chatting, and Evo owners are normally ex-Scooby owners so there's less antagonism than you might think
Oh, and you don't need to go to Ralliart to have a professional service done, there's a few places that are competent and more handily placed dotted around.
[Edited by NumptyScrub - 2/11/2002 6:33:30 PM]
02 November 2002, 07:41 PM
#37
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LOL didnt mean to start of another argument. I know they aint the right cars but best I could do at short notice. Now my transport whoops EVo 6 and P1 ***!
[Edited by P1Fanatic - 2/11/2002 7:41:50 PM]
[Edited by P1Fanatic - 2/11/2002 7:41:50 PM]
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