Oldest bible to be put online.
12 October 2008, 11:17 PM
#31
Scooby Senior
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: North Wales
Posts: 5,826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even for it's benign uses, there is nothing wrong with questioning something, it leads to better understanding.
Geezer
13 October 2008, 12:33 PM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Something is either true, or it is not.
Absolutely, and for the millions of people who find comfort in religion or the bible, it's a great thing. However, it is also used as a basis for control and bigotry and hatred, so it should be questioned (or criticised).
Even for it's benign uses, there is nothing wrong with questioning something, it leads to better understanding.
Geezer
Absolutely, and for the millions of people who find comfort in religion or the bible, it's a great thing. However, it is also used as a basis for control and bigotry and hatred, so it should be questioned (or criticised).
Even for it's benign uses, there is nothing wrong with questioning something, it leads to better understanding.
Geezer
I am obviously not accusing you of course.
I think you would find that most bigotry and hatred is professed by those who have their own selfish reasons. Such behaviour is unlikely to be encouraged by the true ideals of most religions.
Les
Last edited by Leslie; 13 October 2008 at 12:35 PM.
13 October 2008, 01:30 PM
#34
Les, I agree, if someone finds comfort from it, let them get on with it unhindered.
I wish I could, but I am just too cynical, the revelations as a kid about the Tooth Fairy and Father Christmas I guess removed my ability to pursue blind faith, maybe there is a higher purpose but I dont think the major religions have got it right, they all contradict each other so someone has it wrong.
So, replace all of religion with, play nice, dont be a **** as there could possibly be ramifications when you cark it and we wont go far wrong, and avoid all the happy clappling, wailing, pork restrictions, wierd views on Sex and beer.
I wish I could, but I am just too cynical, the revelations as a kid about the Tooth Fairy and Father Christmas I guess removed my ability to pursue blind faith, maybe there is a higher purpose but I dont think the major religions have got it right, they all contradict each other so someone has it wrong.
So, replace all of religion with, play nice, dont be a **** as there could possibly be ramifications when you cark it and we wont go far wrong, and avoid all the happy clappling, wailing, pork restrictions, wierd views on Sex and beer.
13 October 2008, 03:57 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 12,304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cool, being agnostic the buible is not really top of my list of books to read, did tackle the new and old testaments when i was in my teens though. found them a bit turgid, gave up and read LotR instead
Cannot possibly comment on the above as i am not familar with it although does seem a tad sexist
10 commandments does seem like a good guide mind and one i think most would agree is pretty fair and decent, even us agnostics
Cannot possibly comment on the above as i am not familar with it although does seem a tad sexist
10 commandments does seem like a good guide mind and one i think most would agree is pretty fair and decent, even us agnostics
13 October 2008, 03:58 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 12,304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
13 October 2008, 04:33 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 897
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Underneath the article are a selection of comments
This one's a classic:
This one's a classic:
Didn't they also find the missing page that says 'All characters depicted in this book are purely ficticious and any resemblence to anyone alive or dead is purely co-incidental.'
13 October 2008, 04:46 PM
#38
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was baptised a Methodist and spent my formative years thinking I was C of E. Still managed to figure out it was all a crock of sh!te though
OllyK: by your reckoning I'm an definitely an atheist - no argument there.
What I can't get my head around is why people feel the need to believe/have faith in whatever religion.
OllyK: by your reckoning I'm an definitely an atheist - no argument there.
What I can't get my head around is why people feel the need to believe/have faith in whatever religion.
13 October 2008, 04:59 PM
#39
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 12,304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People also find it hard to admit they are wrong and few people are interested in challenging their beliefs or looking at other options. In the case of religion they "think" they have come to their conclusion through careful thought or epiphany but haven't really ever considered anything else.
13 October 2008, 05:07 PM
#40
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A good way to look at how hard people will defend something they believe in, whether they are wrong or not, is sports. Look at the die hard ferrari nuts who can't understand what the fuss is about with the FIA or look at a football messageboard after a match between two local teams. If it was close then both sides deserved to win, both hammered the other, the ref was biased towards both sides etc etc.
Belief in God is one thing, belief in the bible, word for word is something else entirely and not something i would agree with. The fact the most common one is called the King James 'version' says an awful lot!
5t.
Belief in God is one thing, belief in the bible, word for word is something else entirely and not something i would agree with. The fact the most common one is called the King James 'version' says an awful lot!
5t.
13 October 2008, 06:28 PM
#41
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Necessitas non habet legem
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
13 October 2008, 06:49 PM
#42
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (41)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: in the woods...........555 Wagon Sqn
Posts: 13,347
Received 55 Likes
on
42 Posts
Les, I agree, if someone finds comfort from it, let them get on with it unhindered.
I wish I could, but I am just too cynical, the revelations as a kid about the Tooth Fairy and Father Christmas I guess removed my ability to pursue blind faith, maybe there is a higher purpose but I dont think the major religions have got it right, they all contradict each other so someone has it wrong.
So, replace all of religion with, play nice, dont be a **** as there could possibly be ramifications when you cark it and we wont go far wrong, and avoid all the happy clappling, wailing, pork restrictions, wierd views on Sex and beer.
I wish I could, but I am just too cynical, the revelations as a kid about the Tooth Fairy and Father Christmas I guess removed my ability to pursue blind faith, maybe there is a higher purpose but I dont think the major religions have got it right, they all contradict each other so someone has it wrong.
So, replace all of religion with, play nice, dont be a **** as there could possibly be ramifications when you cark it and we wont go far wrong, and avoid all the happy clappling, wailing, pork restrictions, wierd views on Sex and beer.
13 October 2008, 07:15 PM
#43
Trails, that tolerance needs to work both ways, dont try and convert people and especially dont blow them up cos they arent on your team.
It would be nice if people could get along and enjoy the simple joy of being without having to thank some being which may or may not exist, Chimpanzees arent a million miles from us yet they dont hold Jumble sales and sing Kum By Yah every Sunday or go round knocking on doors, or even try to blow planes up.
Get on with it, enjoy it, dont be a **** to each other and you may or may not )im thinking not) get the answer when its all over.
J4CKO, the new, slightly ambivalent and sceptical Messiah.
It would be nice if people could get along and enjoy the simple joy of being without having to thank some being which may or may not exist, Chimpanzees arent a million miles from us yet they dont hold Jumble sales and sing Kum By Yah every Sunday or go round knocking on doors, or even try to blow planes up.
Get on with it, enjoy it, dont be a **** to each other and you may or may not )im thinking not) get the answer when its all over.
J4CKO, the new, slightly ambivalent and sceptical Messiah.
13 October 2008, 08:15 PM
#44
I personally was christened C of E, but whilst growing up, went to a Methodist Church. It wasn't strict, or forced upon me tbh. My Mam was the one who went to church, my Dad didn't, so the household wasn't massively religious compared to some. Once I was too old for Sunday School, I was given the choice of whether I wanted to go to Church, and for the most part, I didn't. I'm thankful, I was part of a family where this sort of thing wasn't forced on me.
Long story short, I went to a different church when I was a bit older for a while, in the end, I stopped for many reasons. I still hold certain views, but choose now the religious setting isn't for me.
Like I've said before though, I have no problem with people from either side so to speak. So long as no harm is done, then each to their own. I have no time for anyone forcing views on anyone, whether that be those who follow religion, or those so against, they make themselves as bad as those they are criticising.
13 October 2008, 08:38 PM
#45
Super Muppet
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Inside out
Posts: 33,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
13 October 2008, 08:45 PM
#46
13 October 2008, 08:46 PM
#47
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bucks
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have only started to form my relationship with Jesus (2years), and I for one do not go to church on a regular basis. And personally for me I think the church actually lets christianity down on a huge scale. 
People from the outside, look at the church as being boring, with lots of fake 2 faced people. And I think they are right.
The church needs to change and the people need to look at their beliefs and just question themselves as to what faith they are truly following and what they actually believe in. Alot of them believe as long as they show up on a Sunday and sing the hymns and are nice to fellow "christians" then that is good enough to reach the Pearly gates, but is it, For me I don't think so. Its something stronger and more than that. I regularly chat with God and feel my relationship with him as being reasonably close and I think having a strong relationship is the key thing.
You even hear people when they pray reading out of a book. To me that isn't right, when I pray I talk to God as I would a mate . I'm sure he won't answer people in preference to how they talk and whether they say their P's and Q's and cross their T's.
I have had a few bouts of this topic with OllyK and like others have said there will always be people who do believe and those that don't and to be honest there is no point in arguing about it. But if you give it a go, a real go, not just by turning up to church, but by really opening yourself up to God and chatting to him I think alot of people would be surprised. I have had a number of occurences this last 2 weeks which are not explainable, in my eyes, and just confirm to me he is there with me.
Ok I'm ready for the Mocking
People from the outside, look at the church as being boring, with lots of fake 2 faced people. And I think they are right.
The church needs to change and the people need to look at their beliefs and just question themselves as to what faith they are truly following and what they actually believe in. Alot of them believe as long as they show up on a Sunday and sing the hymns and are nice to fellow "christians" then that is good enough to reach the Pearly gates, but is it, For me I don't think so. Its something stronger and more than that. I regularly chat with God and feel my relationship with him as being reasonably close and I think having a strong relationship is the key thing.
You even hear people when they pray reading out of a book. To me that isn't right, when I pray I talk to God as I would a mate . I'm sure he won't answer people in preference to how they talk and whether they say their P's and Q's and cross their T's.
I have had a few bouts of this topic with OllyK and like others have said there will always be people who do believe and those that don't and to be honest there is no point in arguing about it. But if you give it a go, a real go, not just by turning up to church, but by really opening yourself up to God and chatting to him I think alot of people would be surprised. I have had a number of occurences this last 2 weeks which are not explainable, in my eyes, and just confirm to me he is there with me.
Ok I'm ready for the Mocking
13 October 2008, 08:46 PM
#48
Scooby Senior
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: North Wales
Posts: 5,826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quite an interesting point, and one I think would take alot of time trying to answer. I personally knew alot of people in the days when I used to go to Church, who had no religious upbringing, yet for their own personal reasons chose that path, through their own choice. Equally, many had a religious upbringing, and of course those from either group, if they had children, were all bringing them up in that environment.
I personally was christened C of E, but whilst growing up, went to a Methodist Church. It wasn't strict, or forced upon me tbh. My Mam was the one who went to church, my Dad didn't, so the household wasn't massively religious compared to some. Once I was too old for Sunday School, I was given the choice of whether I wanted to go to Church, and for the most part, I didn't. I'm thankful, I was part of a family where this sort of thing wasn't forced on me.
Long story short, I went to a different church when I was a bit older for a while, in the end, I stopped for many reasons. I still hold certain views, but choose now the religious setting isn't for me.
Like I've said before though, I have no problem with people from either side so to speak. So long as no harm is done, then each to their own. I have no time for anyone forcing views on anyone, whether that be those who follow religion, or those so against, they make themselves as bad as those they are criticising.
I personally was christened C of E, but whilst growing up, went to a Methodist Church. It wasn't strict, or forced upon me tbh. My Mam was the one who went to church, my Dad didn't, so the household wasn't massively religious compared to some. Once I was too old for Sunday School, I was given the choice of whether I wanted to go to Church, and for the most part, I didn't. I'm thankful, I was part of a family where this sort of thing wasn't forced on me.
Long story short, I went to a different church when I was a bit older for a while, in the end, I stopped for many reasons. I still hold certain views, but choose now the religious setting isn't for me.
Like I've said before though, I have no problem with people from either side so to speak. So long as no harm is done, then each to their own. I have no time for anyone forcing views on anyone, whether that be those who follow religion, or those so against, they make themselves as bad as those they are criticising.
I doubt many of the peole you refer to were brought up without knowing about religion either. It's almost subliminal. What I and Olly refer to us an upbringing utterly devoid of any religious knowledge, and then see how many people would believe.
That, I think, would be really interesting.
Geezer
13 October 2008, 08:50 PM
#49
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think agnostic means what you think it means. Pretty much everybody is agnostic. Those that claim to be gnostic, tend to be the fundamentalists at either end of the theistic spectrum. If you believe in any god at all, you're a theist, if you don't believe in any gods at all, you're an atheist. That's all there is to it.
Whilst I take your point, I would ask you to define god before asking me whether I believed in it or not. Dawkins accuses Einstein, Hawkings and others of intellectual high-treason for making reference to god, but I'd argue that it's the reader's responsibilty to enquire as to the definition.
13 October 2008, 09:07 PM
#51
Even though you say it wasn't stirct or forced, it was still taught and you were brought up to believe in God, and only when you were older (and already indoctrinated) were given a 'choice'.
I doubt many of the peole you refer to were brought up without knowing about religion either. It's almost subliminal. What I and Olly refer to us an upbringing utterly devoid of any religious knowledge, and then see how many people would believe.
That, I think, would be really interesting.
Geezer
I doubt many of the peole you refer to were brought up without knowing about religion either. It's almost subliminal. What I and Olly refer to us an upbringing utterly devoid of any religious knowledge, and then see how many people would believe.
That, I think, would be really interesting.
Geezer
I don't think I was indoctrinated as such, I merely went to Sunday school, and it was more about just drawing/playing music, than about the religious stuff tbh. I was only about 10, when I was too old for it, and then I chose not to go to church.
Personally, I don't think you can make someone believe in something really for the most part. I think you can force someone into doing something i.e. go to church, but if the belief isn't there, it isn't there. If they know no different, fair play, I can believe they may just believe what is forced on them, but by and large, many people aren't totally subjected to no other information, than that of a religious nature in life.
While religion still remains part of peoples' lives, then I just think if it makes them happy, fulfilled, then fine, let them get on with it. Why does it really matter, if someone believes in a God? As I've said so many times, if they aren't effecting your life/ causing harm, then live and let live.
14 October 2008, 12:52 PM
#52
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I certainly do not go around attempting to start such discussions or trying to impress my beliefs on others. As I mentioned above, I have never even professed my personal beliefs anyway. I prefer to keep those to myself. How often have you found people trying to convert you compared to those who denigrate any form of religious belief?
The only time I join such discussions is to defend the right of anyone to believe what their conscience tells them to do without having to put up with nasty minded insults from others who disagree. Neither do I support bigotry or the efforts of vicious people to use religion for their own ends.
Thanks J4CKO!
Les
14 October 2008, 01:54 PM
#53
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Wales, near Cardiff
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I went to a C of E primary and junior school and a Roman Catholic high school.
My parents never took me to church. I have never benn christened or baptised.
My parents did however teach me several other things that I feel have made me a better person.
1. Have respect for others, especially those older than you however dliuded they may be
2. Work hard - something I have done all my life
3. Contribute wherever possible in a positive manner
4. Rather than criticise help a person / group work through how best to resolve or achieve whatever it is they are attempting to do.
5. Listen to people, consider what they have said and then respond (also known as engage brain before gob!)
6. Respect other peoples beliefs
7. Make choices based on fact wherever possible and evaluate the risk to you and your family
8. Don't go out of your way to be awkward or difficult - what goes around comes around
9. Stand by what you believe - if you have the facts to back up your beliefs then stand by them.
10. Try to learn or absorb (mentally) something new everyday
The above are just some of the hints, tips, beliefs, common sense etc that my parents passed on to me through out my life.
I am an athiest, I do not believe their is a God! Why should I?
I do know this though, I have enjoyed my life thus far. I work hard, have a great family, like a good laugh, enjoy other peoples comapany and also enjoy a good debate about all sorts of issues ranging from politics, society, the youth of today, cars etc etc................ however I point blank refuse to discuss religion if at all possible especially if the other person is a "believer" of whatever faith it may be.
My reasons for this are that I am more often than not asked to justify why I don't believe whereas when I challenge their religious beliefs I am being disrespectful.... how could X million / billion people of the same faith all be wrong?????
I have read the bible more than once ;-) and I struggle to see the relevance of what was once very important thousands of years ago - times have changed especially in the developed countries of the world.
We live in an age of iPods, the internet, eletric gadgets and gizmo's, cars, planes.......... the list goes on. Almost everyone in the western world has embraced new technology and yet society still upholds religious beliefs written down or communicated thousands of years ago.
Surely all we need to do is respect one another, right or wrong, agree not to agree on everything, respect other peoples beliefs hopefully without resorting to blowing them up, stabbing them etc....... and more importantly embrace the technology we have to at least try and make the world a better place.
Is the above likely to ever happen? In my opinion no.
That said you can believe whatever you want and I'll respect you for that so long as you are not a completely dilluded fool who thinks it is acceptable to blow up innocent people etc.
Hopefully my children will continue to grow up being polite and knowing what is right and what is wrong, how to behave and that if they cross the line of what I deem unacceptable their WILL be consequences! I hope they have a full and rich life and experience all that life has to offer. I hope they know they can come to me for help, support, advice or just to share whatever it is that might be troubling them........
I hope they have as good if not a better life than me but most of all I hope they are honest, respectul, intelligent, hard working and have fun by the bucket load.
Ultimately it is down to ME and my wife to ensure they have all of the above and more. I hope we have the integrity and discipline to see it through - because ultimately it is down to us, not a book, but a set of beliefs that we live by and would be proud to see our children live by. Hopefully one day they can pass OUR beliefs on to their children.
I suppose I have come full circle, maybe I am religious, just maybe I have hit on a new religion.................. Ginger anybody??
GB
My parents never took me to church. I have never benn christened or baptised.
My parents did however teach me several other things that I feel have made me a better person.
1. Have respect for others, especially those older than you however dliuded they may be
2. Work hard - something I have done all my life
3. Contribute wherever possible in a positive manner
4. Rather than criticise help a person / group work through how best to resolve or achieve whatever it is they are attempting to do.
5. Listen to people, consider what they have said and then respond (also known as engage brain before gob!)
6. Respect other peoples beliefs
7. Make choices based on fact wherever possible and evaluate the risk to you and your family
8. Don't go out of your way to be awkward or difficult - what goes around comes around
9. Stand by what you believe - if you have the facts to back up your beliefs then stand by them.
10. Try to learn or absorb (mentally) something new everyday
The above are just some of the hints, tips, beliefs, common sense etc that my parents passed on to me through out my life.
I am an athiest, I do not believe their is a God! Why should I?
I do know this though, I have enjoyed my life thus far. I work hard, have a great family, like a good laugh, enjoy other peoples comapany and also enjoy a good debate about all sorts of issues ranging from politics, society, the youth of today, cars etc etc................ however I point blank refuse to discuss religion if at all possible especially if the other person is a "believer" of whatever faith it may be.
My reasons for this are that I am more often than not asked to justify why I don't believe whereas when I challenge their religious beliefs I am being disrespectful.... how could X million / billion people of the same faith all be wrong?????
I have read the bible more than once ;-) and I struggle to see the relevance of what was once very important thousands of years ago - times have changed especially in the developed countries of the world.
We live in an age of iPods, the internet, eletric gadgets and gizmo's, cars, planes.......... the list goes on. Almost everyone in the western world has embraced new technology and yet society still upholds religious beliefs written down or communicated thousands of years ago.
Surely all we need to do is respect one another, right or wrong, agree not to agree on everything, respect other peoples beliefs hopefully without resorting to blowing them up, stabbing them etc....... and more importantly embrace the technology we have to at least try and make the world a better place.
Is the above likely to ever happen? In my opinion no.
That said you can believe whatever you want and I'll respect you for that so long as you are not a completely dilluded fool who thinks it is acceptable to blow up innocent people etc.
Hopefully my children will continue to grow up being polite and knowing what is right and what is wrong, how to behave and that if they cross the line of what I deem unacceptable their WILL be consequences! I hope they have a full and rich life and experience all that life has to offer. I hope they know they can come to me for help, support, advice or just to share whatever it is that might be troubling them........
I hope they have as good if not a better life than me but most of all I hope they are honest, respectul, intelligent, hard working and have fun by the bucket load.
Ultimately it is down to ME and my wife to ensure they have all of the above and more. I hope we have the integrity and discipline to see it through - because ultimately it is down to us, not a book, but a set of beliefs that we live by and would be proud to see our children live by. Hopefully one day they can pass OUR beliefs on to their children.
I suppose I have come full circle, maybe I am religious, just maybe I have hit on a new religion.................. Ginger anybody??
GB
14 October 2008, 02:04 PM
#54
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (41)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: in the woods...........555 Wagon Sqn
Posts: 13,347
Received 55 Likes
on
42 Posts
You are really being grossly unfair. The subject of religion only comes up on this forum when the religiously minded are rubbished by some of the fundamental atheists. I have found that this is generally the same in life as well.
I certainly do not go around attempting to start such discussions or trying to impress my beliefs on others. As I mentioned above, I have never even professed my personal beliefs anyway. I prefer to keep those to myself. How often have you found people trying to convert you compared to those who denigrate any form of religious belief?
The only time I join such discussions is to defend the right of anyone to believe what their conscience tells them to do without having to put up with nasty minded insults from others who disagree. Neither do I support bigotry or the efforts of vicious people to use religion for their own ends.
Thanks J4CKO!
Les
I certainly do not go around attempting to start such discussions or trying to impress my beliefs on others. As I mentioned above, I have never even professed my personal beliefs anyway. I prefer to keep those to myself. How often have you found people trying to convert you compared to those who denigrate any form of religious belief?
The only time I join such discussions is to defend the right of anyone to believe what their conscience tells them to do without having to put up with nasty minded insults from others who disagree. Neither do I support bigotry or the efforts of vicious people to use religion for their own ends.
Thanks J4CKO!
Les
Ian
14 October 2008, 02:05 PM
#55
People do have the right to believe what they want of course, but it would be interesting to see how many people believed if they were given a full education, then presented with the idea of religion once they were adults.
Having something drilled into you as true when you are a child is very compelling, and hard to break. Hell, that's why the ***** had the Hitler Youth!
Seriously though, I doubt there would be many if that were to happen.
Geezer
Having something drilled into you as true when you are a child is very compelling, and hard to break. Hell, that's why the ***** had the Hitler Youth!
Seriously though, I doubt there would be many if that were to happen.
Geezer
14 October 2008, 02:16 PM
#56
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
just reading it now. it sums up all religious texts really.
there just is no evidence to any of them. they appear to be not much more than stories and a list of health and safety type rules to live by.
what will be interesting is if the church now discount the latter versions of the bible ?
14 October 2008, 02:32 PM
#57
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 11,905
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was going to post that, it is a quote from Red Dwarf.
Steve
14 October 2008, 02:55 PM
#58
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I went to a C of E primary and junior school and a Roman Catholic high school.
My parents never took me to church. I have never benn christened or baptised.
My parents did however teach me several other things that I feel have made me a better person.
1. Have respect for others, especially those older than you however dliuded they may be
2. Work hard - something I have done all my life
3. Contribute wherever possible in a positive manner
4. Rather than criticise help a person / group work through how best to resolve or achieve whatever it is they are attempting to do.
5. Listen to people, consider what they have said and then respond (also known as engage brain before gob!)
6. Respect other peoples beliefs
7. Make choices based on fact wherever possible and evaluate the risk to you and your family
8. Don't go out of your way to be awkward or difficult - what goes around comes around
9. Stand by what you believe - if you have the facts to back up your beliefs then stand by them.
10. Try to learn or absorb (mentally) something new everyday
The above are just some of the hints, tips, beliefs, common sense etc that my parents passed on to me through out my life.
I am an athiest, I do not believe their is a God! Why should I?
I do know this though, I have enjoyed my life thus far. I work hard, have a great family, like a good laugh, enjoy other peoples comapany and also enjoy a good debate about all sorts of issues ranging from politics, society, the youth of today, cars etc etc................ however I point blank refuse to discuss religion if at all possible especially if the other person is a "believer" of whatever faith it may be.
My reasons for this are that I am more often than not asked to justify why I don't believe whereas when I challenge their religious beliefs I am being disrespectful.... how could X million / billion people of the same faith all be wrong?????
I have read the bible more than once ;-) and I struggle to see the relevance of what was once very important thousands of years ago - times have changed especially in the developed countries of the world.
We live in an age of iPods, the internet, eletric gadgets and gizmo's, cars, planes.......... the list goes on. Almost everyone in the western world has embraced new technology and yet society still upholds religious beliefs written down or communicated thousands of years ago.
Surely all we need to do is respect one another, right or wrong, agree not to agree on everything, respect other peoples beliefs hopefully without resorting to blowing them up, stabbing them etc....... and more importantly embrace the technology we have to at least try and make the world a better place.
Is the above likely to ever happen? In my opinion no.
That said you can believe whatever you want and I'll respect you for that so long as you are not a completely dilluded fool who thinks it is acceptable to blow up innocent people etc.
Hopefully my children will continue to grow up being polite and knowing what is right and what is wrong, how to behave and that if they cross the line of what I deem unacceptable their WILL be consequences! I hope they have a full and rich life and experience all that life has to offer. I hope they know they can come to me for help, support, advice or just to share whatever it is that might be troubling them........
I hope they have as good if not a better life than me but most of all I hope they are honest, respectul, intelligent, hard working and have fun by the bucket load.
Ultimately it is down to ME and my wife to ensure they have all of the above and more. I hope we have the integrity and discipline to see it through - because ultimately it is down to us, not a book, but a set of beliefs that we live by and would be proud to see our children live by. Hopefully one day they can pass OUR beliefs on to their children.
I suppose I have come full circle, maybe I am religious, just maybe I have hit on a new religion.................. Ginger anybody??
GB
My parents never took me to church. I have never benn christened or baptised.
My parents did however teach me several other things that I feel have made me a better person.
1. Have respect for others, especially those older than you however dliuded they may be
2. Work hard - something I have done all my life
3. Contribute wherever possible in a positive manner
4. Rather than criticise help a person / group work through how best to resolve or achieve whatever it is they are attempting to do.
5. Listen to people, consider what they have said and then respond (also known as engage brain before gob!)
6. Respect other peoples beliefs
7. Make choices based on fact wherever possible and evaluate the risk to you and your family
8. Don't go out of your way to be awkward or difficult - what goes around comes around
9. Stand by what you believe - if you have the facts to back up your beliefs then stand by them.
10. Try to learn or absorb (mentally) something new everyday
The above are just some of the hints, tips, beliefs, common sense etc that my parents passed on to me through out my life.
I am an athiest, I do not believe their is a God! Why should I?
I do know this though, I have enjoyed my life thus far. I work hard, have a great family, like a good laugh, enjoy other peoples comapany and also enjoy a good debate about all sorts of issues ranging from politics, society, the youth of today, cars etc etc................ however I point blank refuse to discuss religion if at all possible especially if the other person is a "believer" of whatever faith it may be.
My reasons for this are that I am more often than not asked to justify why I don't believe whereas when I challenge their religious beliefs I am being disrespectful.... how could X million / billion people of the same faith all be wrong?????
I have read the bible more than once ;-) and I struggle to see the relevance of what was once very important thousands of years ago - times have changed especially in the developed countries of the world.
We live in an age of iPods, the internet, eletric gadgets and gizmo's, cars, planes.......... the list goes on. Almost everyone in the western world has embraced new technology and yet society still upholds religious beliefs written down or communicated thousands of years ago.
Surely all we need to do is respect one another, right or wrong, agree not to agree on everything, respect other peoples beliefs hopefully without resorting to blowing them up, stabbing them etc....... and more importantly embrace the technology we have to at least try and make the world a better place.
Is the above likely to ever happen? In my opinion no.
That said you can believe whatever you want and I'll respect you for that so long as you are not a completely dilluded fool who thinks it is acceptable to blow up innocent people etc.
Hopefully my children will continue to grow up being polite and knowing what is right and what is wrong, how to behave and that if they cross the line of what I deem unacceptable their WILL be consequences! I hope they have a full and rich life and experience all that life has to offer. I hope they know they can come to me for help, support, advice or just to share whatever it is that might be troubling them........
I hope they have as good if not a better life than me but most of all I hope they are honest, respectul, intelligent, hard working and have fun by the bucket load.
Ultimately it is down to ME and my wife to ensure they have all of the above and more. I hope we have the integrity and discipline to see it through - because ultimately it is down to us, not a book, but a set of beliefs that we live by and would be proud to see our children live by. Hopefully one day they can pass OUR beliefs on to their children.
I suppose I have come full circle, maybe I am religious, just maybe I have hit on a new religion.................. Ginger anybody??
GB
I applaud them for that and what you believe is your own affair.
Les
14 October 2008, 02:56 PM
#59
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My comment was not aimed at you Les, it was a comment aimed at those who believe they have a moral duty to ensure everyone adopts their belief system. I have no problem with religion; no cross to bear if you will! I just believe you should be free to live your life your way and not be constrained by the beliefs of others.
Ian
Ian
Les
14 October 2008, 04:03 PM
#60
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Wales, near Cardiff
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not saying their is anything wrong with having a belief in God / religion or being of no religious persuasion is any different, on the contrary I think in todays society if we could all be more responsible for our individual actions and also those of our children (where applicable) that the world would be a better place all round.
Unfortunately it is all to apparent that we live in a society that is seeing these basic principles such as respect, courtesy, good manners etc being constantly erroded........... you could argue that this due to a lack of religous belief or conversley argue that it is due to a general lack of standards and so called "do gooders" who stand up for a minority and only succeed in making life a misery for the greater majority.
You only have to look back 30 years to see how quickly things have changed - 30 yrs ago most kids wouldn't say boo to a policeman, teacher etc...... now kids couldn't care less who you are, position of authority or not!
We live in a nanny state, rulings made on behalf of a small minority are then exploited by the masses - case in point the pupil teacher relationship. We would all agree that young people should not be abused or punished in such a way that it is bordering on physical abuse but by the same token teachers are unable to touch children unless it is in self defense or to break up a fight..............
One of my wifes colleagues is in court soon.... why? Because her daughter punched her in the face, in response and purely as a gut reaction she slapped her daughter. Daughter rings the Police lodges a complaint - because she is a minor (15 yrs old) her mother is now appearing in caught charged with assaulting a minor.
The mothers counter claim for assault was almost overlooked as a joke, who should care that she had a face full of blood after her daughter bust her nose!!?? Now the mother is adamant she will not back down and that she wants her daughter to face the judge and see how big she really is when the chips are down - factor in the Mother has photographic evidence taken by the police of a bust nose, top lip, black eye, bruised cheek etc.
The daughter had nothing, not even a red hand mark!
It will be interesting to see the outcome.
But what I am getting at is this - would you have even thought to punch your mother / father in the face because you were not getting your own way?? I know I wouldn't, or should I say I wouldn't have dared to.
So is it a case of society is going down the drain or we lack belief?
Whichever it is I know this for sure, things need to improve and fast!
GB