jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

you need to see a doctor. Thats a few sensible posts in one thread

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

It is possible that a Ferrari fan can also be fan of the sport itself.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

stoppit

Turbo2

Thanks Pete, so why did they not apply this rule during the race accordingly? I.e. a drive-through penalty for one or both drivers or, if just a racing incident, then clear both drivers of wrong-doing and let them complete the race in the proper fashion?

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

yep, should be fun next year when the rules change to allow for overtaking.

I think they should have a free for all in qualifying, then for the race actually use a slot system like scalextric, and just have a few overtaking spots per lap.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Because they don't know what they are doing, plain and simple.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

my earlier post

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

oh and to add to my last post, I still dont understand why bourdais got it when it was at worst a racing incident.

dandruffe

iTrader: (1)

hiya guys... read a lot of the posts on here and have been an avid f1 fan for many years.

we firstly have to agree that like or lump him lewis is a great driver who has yet to mature and completely threw away yesterday. The first corner incident was never have been worthy of a drive through - lewis wouldnt have come off any better with the lunge anyway because of the damaged tyre resulting and he only pushed people wide, not causing an accident.

massa's punishment for the lewis spin was debatable, but I think for consistency with the Spa incident they had to give it. However, the Bordais incident was totally wrong. Charlie Whiting has been emphasising the priority to the car exiting the pit lane and then this happens! Bordais even took himself onto the inside kerb giving up the true racing line & massa drove into him!

Ive spoken to my friend who works for STR and general paddock consensus is that FIA / Bernie are engineering a close finish to the championship.... totally unsporting and spoiling what has been a much better sport to watch in recent years. No doubt China will be pointless too so just tune in for Brazil if you want to know how the championship will result....

Come on Kubica I say!

PeteBrant

I frickin love Ferrari, my dream is to see Hamilton in a Ferrari.

I think they are getting a bit of an unfair press, The FIA are making some diabolical decisions, some of which benefit Ferrari (some of which don't) and Ferrari is being seen as being in cahoots with the FIA.

I think the focus for abuse should be the FIA. No Ferrari, not Massa, Not Hamilton, but the idiots doing thier level best to ruin a sport that we all love.

Leslie

Not really true. Massa was too fast into the right hand part of the chicane which forced him onto the grass on the inside of the second bit, he then punted Hamilton who was taking the corner correctly.

I wonder why Hamilton was penalised for the first bend, he did lock up his wheels but he did not contact Raikkonen to force him off the road. Why in that case was Raikkonen not penalised at Spa for causing Hamilton to have to go off the corner on the inside? Hamilton's only real error was in making a poor start.

Bordais should not have been penalised when Massa hit him when he came out of the pits in a legal manner. Massa should have been penalised for squeezing him and thus hitting him. There was nowhere else for Bordais to go!

Those fellows acting as observers are playing a blinder for Ferrari!

It does not enhance your later post to mock Hamilton anyway.

Les

Leslie

I know he is not perfect, no one is in this world, but do you really think you could do better?

Les

Spoon

Hi, my name is Spoon and I was an F1coholic. After much soul searching I decided to not watch the race yesterday due to the constant cr4p being dished up to me under the guise of motorsport.

Yesterday was the 1st race I'd not seen for over 3 decades and so the decision wasn't taken lightly. However, I feel better for it and hope to remain on the wagon.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

I'll mock whoever I want to Les, as does everyone else on this site. I'm not looking to 'enhance' my posts or put people down. I just don't like Hamilton, is that a crime? If you want to lick his backside just because he's British, fine.

It was Lewis that fluffed his start
It was Lewis that out-braked himself at the first corner
It was Lewis that flat-spotted his tyres in doing so
It was Lewis who tried to overtake Massa even though he had to come in to replace his tyres a mile later.

For someone who was 7 points clear in the chamionship, he drove like an amateur. Argue with the facts if you like but that is what happened.

And Massa did not chose to deliberately cut the corner did he? He tried to keep his car tight to the corner to avoid hitting Hamilton. They both just ran out of room, or as people with common sense put it, 'a racing incident'.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

thats more like it, back to your usual self One minor flaw though, Lewis did overtake Massa

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Fully? Why did they touch then? Unless I'm blind, Massa was a half a car length alongside Hamilton when they touched.

The fact still remains, why risk your car trying to overtake your nearest challenger for the title, when you're just about to pit?

PeteBrant

To be fair, I am not sure he would have pitted if he had made it stick past Massa. Flat spot or no, he was still clearly quick enough to get past him.

jsh1

iTrader: (1)

Oh Dear!

Chris, it is perfectly acceptable to not like Lewis, no-one has an issue with that.

What I find tedious is this Ferrari fan boy mentality that seems to constantly rattle on and that you are SO blinkered that Ferrari can not, have not nor will not do anything wrong EVER!

Hamilton was impetuous into the first corner, locked wheels, hit no-one (happens ALL the time in every race - NEVER EVER have they given a penalty for it). It was in fact Kovaleinen that pushed Raikkonen off!!!!!!!!

As for the Massa incident, Massa ran wide, leaving a gap for Hamilton (look at the incident, at NO point did Hamilton leave the racing line) Massa then ran off the track - he then has a duty of car to rejoin the track in a safe manner, this he failed to do and decided that he would just hit Hamilton - it was an incident that Massa could have avoided. Hamilton did NOTHING wrong in this case. He did not risk anything trying to overtake, Massa left the gap

Before you start, I am not a Hamilton fan boy.

With regards to the Bourdais incident, yet again Massa was to blame for this. He was fully aware that Bourdais was exiting the pit lane and has only one route to take, the driver from the pit lane should have priority and Massa should have given quarter to him and taken a wider line. Dont forget, they were racing for position.

At some point in the future, i hope that people can just look at these incidents from a un-biased view and just report the facts.

It is becoming blatantly clear that the powers that be, Ecclestone (Huge Ferrari Fan), Moseley and the FIA are doing all they can to (at best) extend the championhip for as long as they can, or, as in my opinion, trying to engineer another Ferrari win. Dont forget Moseley is also anti-McLaren and has had a long running "disagreement" with Ron Dennis

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

I doubt it. The vibrations caused for flat spots are huge at 180mph. Also, when you lock the same wheel again, it will lock in the same position causing the flat spot to get worse.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

I can see when Ferrari or one of their driver's are in the wrong.
Did you watch the Italian grandprix this year? Did you notice that nearly every driver was leaving the track when they negociated the chicanes? Nothing was done then.

I just get sick of the stewards changing the rules from one race to the next.
And, if you actually bother to read my posts, you'll notice that I did actually state that Bourdais did not derserve a penalty.

As you may tire of me stating that Ferrari is whiter that white, the same goes for me when everybody accuses Ferrari of being cheats and of Lewis being a god. Moan at the stewards for f&ck sake, they're the ones that make the decisions.

Also, by your reckoning, are you saying that Lewis deserved the penalty in Spa?

PeteBrant

Of course, but one cannot say with any certaintly one way or the other. Logic says he would have stayed out as long as possible. He came in straight after the incident because he had nothign to lose at that point.

Leslie

Now thats a good post and saves me a load of typing because it puts my points perfectly.

Let me make it clear that I have respect not only for Hamilton's outstanding driving ability and also for Massa for the same reason. I also think that Massa like Hamilton is also a likeable chap and so far has been a fair driver.

I make no apology however that I support Hamilton to win the championship
because he is British and I also think he deserves to win.

I never felt the need to scoff at Massa when he was penalised for causing Hamilton to spin, just disappointed that the incident happened in the first place. I would prefer to see a straight race with the winner decided by straightforward driving ability.

Les

jsh1

iTrader: (1)

I agree with you about the Stewards, this is getting ridiculous and not going to get any better either

The issue with the Massa incident was not about him leaving the track - this happens - this issue is that he drove straight into the side of Hamilton.

I think Ferrari (like most teams) will do what they can to win and F1 teams have always been "guilty" of bending rules to their own benefit. I think Ferrari get away with a LOT more than any other team due to favouritism from the FIA and others, I did not say Ferrari were cheats, just clever at exploiting opportunities.

With regards to Spa, had Lewis hit Raikkonen, then he would have deserved the penalty. This is a different matter altogether, and on which I can see both points of view.

I think that he did yield and pulled in behind Raikkonen (as the rules state), had Raikkonen not made a school boy error going into the next corner by braking a mile before he needed to, then Hamilton might not have gone past him.

I think it was a harsh penalty personally, but I understand why it was issued

Jason

Tidgy

interesting comments.

ham got a pen for forcing off raikkonen, if there was room to get a car down there then there was room, but if the sterwards thought it wasn't racing then ok pen, massa got one for clouting ham, but the damage to hams car hampered his race, 25 seconds dont cover that, but thats a problem within the rules and not a stewards decision. you cant restart a race can you

webber and the wall, well his was going defensive, the rest of the track wasn't closed was it? not webs fault he went the tight way round lol.

and the bourdai thing, WTF???? massa hit him when he has no where to go and gets a pen to add insult to injury? thats the most stupid decision of the year. at least should have been a racing incident and all even, if not massa pen.

every race goes by the stewards/fia give more and more help to ferrari, i noticed even the comentators said that at one point lol

it was either a racing incident, or massa pen, and personaly i think the later.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I actually think that Kubica deserves it more than either Hamilton or Massa who have both made a lot of errors this season whereas Kubica has only really been let down by a lack of speed in his car in the latter half of the season.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

They said that all it is doing to making it look as if the FIA are in cahoots with Ferrari, which is very true.

Iain Young

Of couse another thing to bear in mind that Massa was "tutored" by Schumacher, who tried ram title opponents off the track at regular intervals. Looks like some of it has rubbed off

Seriously though, the penalties do seem odd. Yes Hamilton pushed other driver off the track at the first corner, but hasn't this happened already at nearly every circuit this season. Why no penalties until now? Other drivers did the same thing in the same race and received no penalty.

The Bordais thing was a joke. Charlie Whiting stateed to the teams before the race that people exiting the pit lane had right of way, and the stewards ruled completely the opposite. So what is the point of a race director?

Personally I'd like to see Kubica win the title as he's driven brilliantly this season, but sadly I think it is unlikely.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

The way that Lewis and Massa are driving at the moment, a bet on Kubica wouldn't be a silly idea.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

half a car length alongside yes, because he cut the corner thus gaining an advantage which he didnt immediately give back (unlike spa??), in fact he didnt give it back at all, he merely drove (rammed?) into the side of hamilton

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

That's a pretty poor arguement, even by your standards.
How could he give back a place that he didn't even gain in the first?