Evolution VS Creation thread.
22 October 2008, 10:54 PM
#62
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It is very interesting that the more the medical profession learns about the way 'Man' is literally put together, the better they can improve on it's design, i.e Tiger Woods has 20/15 vision given what is called 'optimum vision' ( the procedure is called lasik surgery, all Special Forces UKSF have this done also)
"Intelligent Design Theory" falls on its **** in every respect imo
"Intelligent Design Theory" falls on its **** in every respect imo
22 October 2008, 11:07 PM
#63
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God created everything over 6 days in the Bible. The days are mentioned to make it easy for the layman to understand, but really we don't know how many millions of years each days represent. Over that time evolution happens.
Animals and people all adapt over time.
Look how we use our Thumbs more than we did 20years ago... ie: text messaging!!
Animals and people all adapt over time.
Look how we use our Thumbs more than we did 20years ago... ie: text messaging!!
22 October 2008, 11:15 PM
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22 October 2008, 11:15 PM
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God created everything over 6 days in the Bible. The days are mentioned to make it easy for the layman to understand, but really we don't know how many millions of years each days represent. Over that time evolution happens.
Animals and people all adapt over time.
Look how we use our Thumbs more than we did 20years ago... ie: text messaging!!
Animals and people all adapt over time.
Look how we use our Thumbs more than we did 20years ago... ie: text messaging!!
It is something of a stretch to believe that God (or the writers of the bible) would think that we would be able to discern when they meant a literal day or metaphoric one.
Genesis is clearly wrong and contradicts what can be (reasonably) deduced or proven from fossil and geological record.
Also, interestingly, the original Hebrew text says the earth was created by Elohim, which is 'Gods', not 'God', so one true God is not even a valid concept in Judaism, but that somehow gets glossed over nowadays.
Geezer
23 October 2008, 07:16 AM
#66
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God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit.
If you say there's no God, what put the evolution in place?
What started it all off... what started the 'big bang'?
It just happened then?
If you say there's no God, what put the evolution in place?
What started it all off... what started the 'big bang'?
It just happened then?
23 October 2008, 07:26 AM
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It's not complicated, just slow; but then we've had BILLIONS of years of evolution to get this far. There's no intelligence steering it, it just happens
23 October 2008, 07:33 AM
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If you can accept a spontaneous God the the big bang is no problem.
Geezer
23 October 2008, 07:34 AM
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I'm no chemist so this is way out of my field, but accidental reactions such as these are quite feasible.
23 October 2008, 08:09 AM
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I honestly didn't want this thread to be a discussion about the existence or non-existence of God, but to see if there were any advocates of "Intelligent Design Theory" on SN with whom I could have a jolly good tussle. I really didn't expect a whole thread based around one man's bizarre fascination with the purpose of tears.
23 October 2008, 08:12 AM
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Really it's more of a matter of how everything started. I believe in evolution, as you can see it going on, and how it's already happened. Living things adapt, change and develop over time to survive basically. Some are successful, some aren't. Unless something compelling comes along to wipe out that theory, I for now, accept this is the way.
However, how it all 'got going', I'm less sure about. Was it a big bang, was it a higher power? I don't know. I'd like to think it was something 'bigger' rather than just luck that certain things mixed and life was born, but that's just me.
As I've said before, I know alot of people who believe there is a higher power at work, yet also accept, or certainly don't dismiss evolution.
However, how it all 'got going', I'm less sure about. Was it a big bang, was it a higher power? I don't know. I'd like to think it was something 'bigger' rather than just luck that certain things mixed and life was born, but that's just me.
As I've said before, I know alot of people who believe there is a higher power at work, yet also accept, or certainly don't dismiss evolution.
23 October 2008, 08:14 AM
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23 October 2008, 10:28 AM
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23 October 2008, 12:09 PM
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Now, I don't know whether we've had a specific thread on SN that deals with the arguments and counter-arguments for these two positions, but I thought it might be a good thing to do after watching a few videos on youtube entitled "Why Do People Laugh At Creationists".
The two positions are essentially this:
1: All living organisms have a shared ancestry and are inter-related; Similarities between organisms now and those observed through time in fossil evidence and the study of DNA show that all life evolved from a single ancestor, with a pattern of branching that IN PRINCIPLE can be exactly discerned. The complex organs possessed by organisms, such as eyes, ears, circulatory systems, brains that can comprehend such ideas etc. have been evolved from less complex precursors by the process of natural selection.
2. All life was created by a supernatural being, and all the similarities between organisms that we observe are mere coincidences that can be attributed to the idea that the same designer was responsible for all. Complex organs which really do seem to have been designed for their purpose actually were designed by the creator.
Please try to keep the discussion on topic and try not to insult each other.
The two positions are essentially this:
1: All living organisms have a shared ancestry and are inter-related; Similarities between organisms now and those observed through time in fossil evidence and the study of DNA show that all life evolved from a single ancestor, with a pattern of branching that IN PRINCIPLE can be exactly discerned. The complex organs possessed by organisms, such as eyes, ears, circulatory systems, brains that can comprehend such ideas etc. have been evolved from less complex precursors by the process of natural selection.
2. All life was created by a supernatural being, and all the similarities between organisms that we observe are mere coincidences that can be attributed to the idea that the same designer was responsible for all. Complex organs which really do seem to have been designed for their purpose actually were designed by the creator.
Please try to keep the discussion on topic and try not to insult each other.
As Lisa said there is no reason why the two positions stated cannot co-exist.
There is no reason why an all powerful being who was responsible for setting the whole business off in the first place should not also allow the existence of evolution, which is the only successful way that we can see for organisms to develop in the universe as conditions change with time. It is a completely logical way of course when you think about it. I believe that evolution exists, in fact I would be blind not to acknowledge it. Very clever too how it has engineered the lives of all those beings to fit together in such a natural way as to benefit each other.
Evolution however is not in any way a proof that the universe, and any others that just might exist, were not started up by some being who is in complete control of us all. No one can prove that did or did not happen and what you personally believe is down to you. Those who jump up and down and quote evolution as a proof that there is no God are way off the mark. As someone said, where did the parcel of energy which developed into the "big Bang" come from anyway? They do say that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, or they always used to at least. I believe they now say that energy can become matter and vice versa. Fair enough as far as I am concerned. The theory is that the energy was converted over time into all those elements which exist in the universe due to the inter stellar activities etc. that were and are still going on.
You may say that in that case where did God come from of course. Well he was probably there all the time because someone had to set the big bang off in the first place!
The definition of God is that he is omniscient, omnipresent and most certainly all powerful. I would not want to **** Him off in any way for certain!
Les
23 October 2008, 12:24 PM
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But by saying God was there all the time opens itself to the same criticisms that are levelled at Big Bang theory. You cannot on the one hand say "where did all this matter/energy come from? and then glibly expect people to believe that God was simply there.
I agree that evolution does not necessarily disprove God, but that is not the debate. It's ID that is in question. ID is clearly wrong even if you believe that God created DNA and set the ball rolling.
Geezer
I agree that evolution does not necessarily disprove God, but that is not the debate. It's ID that is in question. ID is clearly wrong even if you believe that God created DNA and set the ball rolling.
Geezer
23 October 2008, 03:30 PM
#76
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There is ample opportunity for spontaneous 'Big Bangs' in nature that don't require the intervention of a catalyst such as Man or a God, from simple pyrotechnics such as Phosphorus exposure to Oxygen to complex reactions such as produced by Uranium masses colliding.
I'm no chemist so this is way out of my field, but accidental reactions such as these are quite feasible.
I'm no chemist so this is way out of my field, but accidental reactions such as these are quite feasible.
I think with all thse questions people have that are directed at Christianity and God, Church and the big bang. You need to speak with someone who knows how to answers your questions on God better than what i can.
Calling any Vicars on ScoobyNet?
The next question will be, WHY ARE WE HERE, FOR WHAT REASON?
Are we all a sick minded gods joke to play with us?
23 October 2008, 04:41 PM
#77
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This question is flawed as far as I am concerned.
As Lisa said there is no reason why the two positions stated cannot co-exist.
There is no reason why an all powerful being who was responsible for setting the whole business off in the first place should not also allow the existence of evolution, which is the only successful way that we can see for organisms to develop in the universe as conditions change with time. It is a completely logical way of course when you think about it. I believe that evolution exists, in fact I would be blind not to acknowledge it. Very clever too how it has engineered the lives of all those beings to fit together in such a natural way as to benefit each other.
Evolution however is not in any way a proof that the universe, and any others that just might exist, were not started up by some being who is in complete control of us all. No one can prove that did or did not happen and what you personally believe is down to you. Those who jump up and down and quote evolution as a proof that there is no God are way off the mark. As someone said, where did the parcel of energy which developed into the "big Bang" come from anyway? They do say that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, or they always used to at least. I believe they now say that energy can become matter and vice versa. Fair enough as far as I am concerned. The theory is that the energy was converted over time into all those elements which exist in the universe due to the inter stellar activities etc. that were and are still going on.
You may say that in that case where did God come from of course. Well he was probably there all the time because someone had to set the big bang off in the first place!
The definition of God is that he is omniscient, omnipresent and most certainly all powerful. I would not want to **** Him off in any way for certain!
Les
As Lisa said there is no reason why the two positions stated cannot co-exist.
There is no reason why an all powerful being who was responsible for setting the whole business off in the first place should not also allow the existence of evolution, which is the only successful way that we can see for organisms to develop in the universe as conditions change with time. It is a completely logical way of course when you think about it. I believe that evolution exists, in fact I would be blind not to acknowledge it. Very clever too how it has engineered the lives of all those beings to fit together in such a natural way as to benefit each other.
Evolution however is not in any way a proof that the universe, and any others that just might exist, were not started up by some being who is in complete control of us all. No one can prove that did or did not happen and what you personally believe is down to you. Those who jump up and down and quote evolution as a proof that there is no God are way off the mark. As someone said, where did the parcel of energy which developed into the "big Bang" come from anyway? They do say that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, or they always used to at least. I believe they now say that energy can become matter and vice versa. Fair enough as far as I am concerned. The theory is that the energy was converted over time into all those elements which exist in the universe due to the inter stellar activities etc. that were and are still going on.
You may say that in that case where did God come from of course. Well he was probably there all the time because someone had to set the big bang off in the first place!
The definition of God is that he is omniscient, omnipresent and most certainly all powerful. I would not want to **** Him off in any way for certain!
Les
What this thread is about is whether there is any evidence that each and every lifeform on Earth was seperately created by divine fiat, rather than by the process of evolution by natural selection. Some people actually DO believe the former and are actively trying to force its teaching alongside (in some cases instead of) evolutionary theory as a valid scientific proposition.
23 October 2008, 04:55 PM
#78
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And what put that thing there and then that and so on. Your question becomes cyclic and "god" doesn't answer the question either.
A scientist can help you on the scientific view point and back it up with evidence, a religious leader can give you their interpretation of their holy text with no evidence.
No reason, we just are.
I think with all thse questions people have that are directed at Christianity and God, Church and the big bang. You need to speak with someone who knows how to answers your questions on God better than what i can.
Calling any Vicars on ScoobyNet?
The next question will be, WHY ARE WE HERE, FOR WHAT REASON?
Are we all a sick minded gods joke to play with us?
The next question will be, WHY ARE WE HERE, FOR WHAT REASON?
Are we all a sick minded gods joke to play with us?
23 October 2008, 04:57 PM
#79
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And when they have a falsifiable hypothesis I say let them. Until that day, it's place is in RE or Philosophy classes.
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