Pictures of baby P
17 November 2008, 12:06 PM
#31
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Crap family, crap area, crap council, crap staff.
And although i resist jumping on the anti-NL bandwagon, the primary reason for this baby's death was the council's pursuit of targets. Targets, targets, targets.
And although i resist jumping on the anti-NL bandwagon, the primary reason for this baby's death was the council's pursuit of targets. Targets, targets, targets.
17 November 2008, 12:21 PM
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I'm sitting at my desk in a busy office sobbing my guts out. I so wish I could wind back time and save that poor little soul.
17 November 2008, 02:26 PM
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How can a doctor fail to recognise that the child had a broken back and was paralysed from the waist down?
She should be struck off the doctors list and perhaps even police prosecution for gross negligence.
I was looking at my 11mth old boy last night whilst he was sleeping in his cot and i did think about this poor little lad, how anyone can hurt such a defenceless little child is beyond me.
How scared he must have felt everytime these beasts went for him, the terror in his eyes.
Lets hope these beasts get what they deserve and that someone with a screw loose inside reacts to them with fury.
This story is being covered by panorama tonight.
Everyone involved should lose their jobs, 60 bloody visits!!
Shocked to the core.
She should be struck off the doctors list and perhaps even police prosecution for gross negligence.
I was looking at my 11mth old boy last night whilst he was sleeping in his cot and i did think about this poor little lad, how anyone can hurt such a defenceless little child is beyond me.
How scared he must have felt everytime these beasts went for him, the terror in his eyes.
Lets hope these beasts get what they deserve and that someone with a screw loose inside reacts to them with fury.
This story is being covered by panorama tonight.
Everyone involved should lose their jobs, 60 bloody visits!!
Shocked to the core.
17 November 2008, 03:03 PM
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i read that b**ch gave birth to another child in jail..
thats really depressing and sad...
and yeah its all the legal procedures that authorities have to take in order to take the child off the mother..... that killed the child.... nobody blames that
and yeah, one more thing - a doctor refused to examine the child cuz he WAS CRYING.... yeah right...
he was taken to the hospical cuz he had a cold or something like that.. he's not gonna get X-Ray'd for cold is he???
thats really depressing and sad...
and yeah its all the legal procedures that authorities have to take in order to take the child off the mother..... that killed the child.... nobody blames that
and yeah, one more thing - a doctor refused to examine the child cuz he WAS CRYING.... yeah right...
he was taken to the hospical cuz he had a cold or something like that.. he's not gonna get X-Ray'd for cold is he???
Last edited by Underworld; 17 November 2008 at 03:05 PM.
17 November 2008, 03:10 PM
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How is the death penalty going to change anything?
Will it bring back this poor child, will it make any difference to anyone elses life?
As much as this crime disgusts me, the thought of our nation killing people in the name of 'justice', is too depressing for words.
Will it bring back this poor child, will it make any difference to anyone elses life?
As much as this crime disgusts me, the thought of our nation killing people in the name of 'justice', is too depressing for words.
17 November 2008, 03:12 PM
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We do it in the name of protecting a foreign country in the name of oil, what's wrong with doing it to rid our society of the lowest dregs imaginable?
17 November 2008, 03:15 PM
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17 November 2008, 03:23 PM
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Always a tough one, but in cases of pre-meditated torture/murder, where guilt is unequivocal, then i can see a place for the threat of the death penalty in the UK. I don't think it needs to be seen as a "barbarian" measure, not while humans still have the capacity to be barbaric themselves.
17 November 2008, 03:29 PM
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I normally disagree with the death penalty but when 3 people torture a toddler over an extended period for fun, all normal house rules no longer apply.
Steve
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17 November 2008, 03:32 PM
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Always a tough one, but in cases of pre-meditated torture/murder, where guilt is unequivocal, then i can see a place for the threat of the death penalty in the UK. I don't think it needs to be seen as a "barbarian" measure, not while humans still have the capacity to be barbaric themselves.
The problem I have with this solution, is that in nearly all child abuse cases, the abuser was once the abused. Therefore the death penalty would be the final failing of our society. These things are rarely cut and dried.
BTW I have no idea what the back story is to this terrible case, so I'm being general not specific here.
17 November 2008, 03:37 PM
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I still think the threat of the death penalty would be worthwhile, i think there comes a time when a "human" is so utterly worthless to society as a whole that no amount of rehabilitation, social care etc etc will solve the problem, and the line of abuse has to be ended once and for all, in my opinion.
17 November 2008, 04:06 PM
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17 November 2008, 04:12 PM
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Sorry, but that is no excuse at all and I was wondering when/if someone would dare to bring it out. Whatever happened to them as kids has no bearing whatsoever on their freedom to act as they choose. They *chose* to torture that poor kid and so they should suffer the consequences. End of!
Dave
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Thats a totally unbiased opinion too Martin, as I haven't got children myself as of yet. I would also include in the same bracket convicted murderers and paedophiles (beyond doubt). Thats where I would draw the line.
17 November 2008, 04:56 PM
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17 November 2008, 05:38 PM
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Baby P Mother And Stepfather Identified On Internet Amid Calls For Violent Retribution | UK News | Sky News
I've always been one for saying kill them and do it now. However the thought of them spending years in prison being tortured by other inmates is a far more deserved outcome for me. Huntley has been suffering it and so has Sarah Payne's murderer by some accounts. So whilst i've always thought these scumbags are protected quite clearly they aren't. When they try and commit suicide and are rescued and subjected to more torture when put back in their cells then I realise that this is a far better sentence than being electrocuted or given lethal injection.
I hope the above news is true and those inside have already found them and are doing their utmost to give them the most torturous time they can.
As for the 'professionals' involved they should all be struck off form their professions and be refused to ever work with children again as they are not fit to be around children.
I've avoided looking at the detailed pictures because it is too much for me to look at. Just keeping to the minimum knowledge about this case is making my blood boil and making me very sad about the sheer hell and agony that little boy went through.
I really hope the killers have been found and suffer immense pain and suffering in prison. If only the public had the chance to show their feelings in person.
Oh and I have saved the pictures of the killers to redistribute because they are being pulled down off sites fast so will likely go from here as well. It is time the law was shown the public will not bow to protecting these evil creatures and that their identity will not be kept secret.
I've always been one for saying kill them and do it now. However the thought of them spending years in prison being tortured by other inmates is a far more deserved outcome for me. Huntley has been suffering it and so has Sarah Payne's murderer by some accounts. So whilst i've always thought these scumbags are protected quite clearly they aren't. When they try and commit suicide and are rescued and subjected to more torture when put back in their cells then I realise that this is a far better sentence than being electrocuted or given lethal injection.
I hope the above news is true and those inside have already found them and are doing their utmost to give them the most torturous time they can.
As for the 'professionals' involved they should all be struck off form their professions and be refused to ever work with children again as they are not fit to be around children.
I've avoided looking at the detailed pictures because it is too much for me to look at. Just keeping to the minimum knowledge about this case is making my blood boil and making me very sad about the sheer hell and agony that little boy went through.
I really hope the killers have been found and suffer immense pain and suffering in prison. If only the public had the chance to show their feelings in person.
Oh and I have saved the pictures of the killers to redistribute because they are being pulled down off sites fast so will likely go from here as well. It is time the law was shown the public will not bow to protecting these evil creatures and that their identity will not be kept secret.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 17 November 2008 at 05:44 PM.
17 November 2008, 05:51 PM
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The undeniable facts don't change though do they, there is an absolute correllation between absuers and their own childhood experiences. I didn't make this up for 'left wing' reasons, it's just a fact.
17 November 2008, 06:03 PM
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Sorry, but that is no excuse at all and I was wondering when/if someone would dare to bring it out. Whatever happened to them as kids has no bearing whatsoever on their freedom to act as they choose. They *chose* to torture that poor kid and so they should suffer the consequences. End of!
Dave
Dave
Why can we not have a grown up debate?
Nobody said it was an excuse....NOBODY! And I absolutely agree with you about suffering the consequences of their actions. I do not believe death penalty never have never will, so sorry we'll just have to disagree on that one too.
When you say 'dare bring this up' what do you mean?....we cannot dare bring any facts into the debate, we want to have a purely simplistic gut response to these crimes? Well fine you can if you want, as always though things just aint that simple are they?
17 November 2008, 06:46 PM
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Why can we not have a grown up debate?
Nobody said it was an excuse....NOBODY! And I absolutely agree with you about suffering the consequences of their actions. I do not believe death penalty never have never will, so sorry we'll just have to disagree on that one too.
When you say 'dare bring this up' what do you mean?....we cannot dare bring any facts into the debate, we want to have a purely simplistic gut response to these crimes? Well fine you can if you want, as always though things just aint that simple are they?
Nobody said it was an excuse....NOBODY! And I absolutely agree with you about suffering the consequences of their actions. I do not believe death penalty never have never will, so sorry we'll just have to disagree on that one too.
When you say 'dare bring this up' what do you mean?....we cannot dare bring any facts into the debate, we want to have a purely simplistic gut response to these crimes? Well fine you can if you want, as always though things just aint that simple are they?
As for 'things just aint that simple are they', well, in this case, they are. Scumbags tortured child. Child died horrible death. Scumbags stood trial. Scumbags FOUND GUILTY. What could be more cut and dried??? Nothing could be as simple from that respect and those are also the FACTS.
It is the, particularly gruesome, FACTS that bring out the 'purely simplistic gut response' that is being witnessed on this forum as well as most of the rest of the UK population. This crime is so sickening (as based on the FACTS of the case) that it would be more worrying if there were not these responses.
And that's without going into any of the social services failings!
Dave
17 November 2008, 07:46 PM
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I was having a debate, replying to your post. IMHO, and that of many others, what happened to the *guilty* in their own childhood is TOTALLY irrelevant to their crimes. As UB said, the response, 'but they were deprived/abused/bored <delete as appropriate> so go easy on them' is the *typical* response of leftie do-gooders and is one of the principle reasons behind the wishy-washy justice system we have at present.
As for 'things just aint that simple are they', well, in this case, they are. Scumbags tortured child. Child died horrible death. Scumbags stood trial. Scumbags FOUND GUILTY. What could be more cut and dried??? Nothing could be as simple from that respect and those are also the FACTS.
It is the, particularly gruesome, FACTS that bring out the 'purely simplistic gut response' that is being witnessed on this forum as well as most of the rest of the UK population. This crime is so sickening (as based on the FACTS of the case) that it would be more worrying if there were not these responses.
And that's without going into any of the social services failings!
Dave
As for 'things just aint that simple are they', well, in this case, they are. Scumbags tortured child. Child died horrible death. Scumbags stood trial. Scumbags FOUND GUILTY. What could be more cut and dried??? Nothing could be as simple from that respect and those are also the FACTS.
It is the, particularly gruesome, FACTS that bring out the 'purely simplistic gut response' that is being witnessed on this forum as well as most of the rest of the UK population. This crime is so sickening (as based on the FACTS of the case) that it would be more worrying if there were not these responses.
And that's without going into any of the social services failings!
Dave
I'll give you an example of what I mean.
There's been a well publicised case in my neck of the woods about a teacher who was convicted of child abuse. He was rightly jailed for his crimes.
After the case the facts that he was in that now infamous Jersey children home came out, he suffered years of terrible abuse there.
Does this fact justify what he did... NO NEVER.
Does this mean that I have compassion for what he suffered...you bet I do!
I was not and never will use the cycle of abuse as an EXCUSE for such crimes, but it is a REASON.
There is a very big distinction between those 2 comments, I hope that is understood, and I don't get more ridiculous comments about me somehow making excuses for child abuse.
17 November 2008, 07:47 PM
#52
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I was having a debate, replying to your post. IMHO, and that of many others, what happened to the *guilty* in their own childhood is TOTALLY irrelevant to their crimes. As UB said, the response, 'but they were deprived/abused/bored <delete as appropriate> so go easy on them' is the *typical* response of leftie do-gooders and is one of the principle reasons behind the wishy-washy justice system we have at present.
As for 'things just aint that simple are they', well, in this case, they are. Scumbags tortured child. Child died horrible death. Scumbags stood trial. Scumbags FOUND GUILTY. What could be more cut and dried??? Nothing could be as simple from that respect and those are also the FACTS.
It is the, particularly gruesome, FACTS that bring out the 'purely simplistic gut response' that is being witnessed on this forum as well as most of the rest of the UK population. This crime is so sickening (as based on the FACTS of the case) that it would be more worrying if there were not these responses.
And that's without going into any of the social services failings!
Dave
As for 'things just aint that simple are they', well, in this case, they are. Scumbags tortured child. Child died horrible death. Scumbags stood trial. Scumbags FOUND GUILTY. What could be more cut and dried??? Nothing could be as simple from that respect and those are also the FACTS.
It is the, particularly gruesome, FACTS that bring out the 'purely simplistic gut response' that is being witnessed on this forum as well as most of the rest of the UK population. This crime is so sickening (as based on the FACTS of the case) that it would be more worrying if there were not these responses.
And that's without going into any of the social services failings!
Dave
17 November 2008, 08:12 PM
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17 November 2008, 09:17 PM
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The problem I have with this solution, is that in nearly all child abuse cases, the abuser was once the abused. Therefore the death penalty would be the final failing of our society. These things are rarely cut and dried.
BTW I have no idea what the back story is to this terrible case, so I'm being general not specific here.
BTW I have no idea what the back story is to this terrible case, so I'm being general not specific here.
The death penalty would only fail as it would be the easy way out, these people deserve to be physically tortured.
I would be amazed if ANY parent out there would think anything other than destroying these animals. Put them down like the ******* mutts they are
17 November 2008, 09:21 PM
#55
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That just doesn't wash with me, these ******* lost any human rights "pc" bollocks when they decided to pull teeth and nails from a 16 month old baby!!!!!!!! and then go on to break its bloody back!!!
The death penalty would only fail as it would be the easy way out, these people deserve to be physically tortured.
I would be amazed if ANY parent out there would think anything other than destroying these animals. Put them down like the ******* mutts they are
The death penalty would only fail as it would be the easy way out, these people deserve to be physically tortured.
I would be amazed if ANY parent out there would think anything other than destroying these animals. Put them down like the ******* mutts they are
Well said
18 November 2008, 10:43 AM
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it states on her friends reunited page that she has 4 kids, 3 girls and 1 boy. So where are the girls? and if they got took in to care then why didnt baby P?
18 November 2008, 12:31 PM
#57
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Firstly, I HATE these people that have done this to the poor baby, it makes me sick to the stomach and I'm having a hard time stopping myself thinking constantly about the suffering. I HOPE these people suffer horribly for their crimes for many many years.
BUT what Martin2005 is saying as I understood it is that the cycle of:
the abused turns into the abuser who then abuses, and in turn the abused again becomes an abuser..and so on until the death penalty - and that the death penalty is the final failing of our society is true. Surely there is a better way here? Rather than focus on this end scenario, where did it all go wrong at the start? How did we as a society get to this point? If we do execute these monsters then we have failed as a society.
.
BUT what Martin2005 is saying as I understood it is that the cycle of:
the abused turns into the abuser who then abuses, and in turn the abused again becomes an abuser..and so on until the death penalty - and that the death penalty is the final failing of our society is true. Surely there is a better way here? Rather than focus on this end scenario, where did it all go wrong at the start? How did we as a society get to this point? If we do execute these monsters then we have failed as a society.
.
18 November 2008, 01:44 PM
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I have to take exception to these people who will put the blame for all crimes onto society.
Its a cop out, and with soft crimes the PC approach can be seen to curry favour and make the person who made the claim seem "right on".
Problem is, its a crock, a complete nonsense.
People need to take responsibility for their own action.
In this instance it really would have been best to keep your PC bull**** to yourself, the suffering of poor defenceless baby P is NOT a place to score PC points.
Grow up and use common sense of when something may or may not be appropriate.
Its a cop out, and with soft crimes the PC approach can be seen to curry favour and make the person who made the claim seem "right on".
Problem is, its a crock, a complete nonsense.
People need to take responsibility for their own action.
In this instance it really would have been best to keep your PC bull**** to yourself, the suffering of poor defenceless baby P is NOT a place to score PC points.
Grow up and use common sense of when something may or may not be appropriate.
18 November 2008, 02:09 PM
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the abused turns into the abuser who then abuses, and in turn the abused again becomes an abuser..and so on until the death penalty - and that the death penalty is the final failing of our society is true. Surely there is a better way here? Rather than focus on this end scenario, where did it all go wrong at the start? How did we as a society get to this point? If we do execute these monsters then we have failed as a society.
.
.
At present people have more rights than responsibilities. This child was not taken into care because of the rights of the parents rather than the fact they had failed in their responsibility to care for another human being. This is the same reason that we have issues with neds/chavs/louts etc it is now not possible to do anything to them beyond a cuddle because actually punishing them "shows we have failed as a society"
no it doesn't, it shows these people need a kick up the **** early doors. Instead we send them on holidays and reward the bad behaviour while those who tow the line get sweet FA.
The cuddle attitude has also meant that kids are now simply a way to get more money and a free house. These kids aren't wanted or loved at all, they are simply an excuse for scrubbers to get some more money out of the government. This family were a good case for that, sat about all day drinking, no job, computer and internet access though so well spent dole money there eh?
What needs to happen is that as a society we stop saying it is someone elses fault and put it where it lies - with the offenders.
Regarding the death penalty i would ask what's the point in preserving thier lives? They should never ever be released so what is the point in keepign them going? Think of the money we could have saved if Bradey, Hindley et al had simply been done away with. I'm not actually a super fan of state sanctioned death but to be honest, i can't see how a life in a small box with an hour exercise each day for the next 50 years is a decent alternative.
5t.
EDIT - peanuts said the same thing but in much less wordage.
18 November 2008, 02:23 PM
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I seem to have fallen into the same situation that Martin2005 did (or maybe I don't understand what he was saying). Perhaps I just am unable to word my opinion correctly so that you and peanuts understand what I mean. You think you do, but you don't.
you use the words rights, responsibility, cuddles, fault etc but I mention none of these. I just feel sad that these cycles of abuse are occuring. perhaps they should be executed. people are too looked after, given a free ride, talked to and supported instead of being punished, you'll find I agree with you. It's just that why couldn't we get to break this cycle somehow earlier rather than it getting to this stage? I find that by reaching this stage we have failed somehow.
you use the words rights, responsibility, cuddles, fault etc but I mention none of these. I just feel sad that these cycles of abuse are occuring. perhaps they should be executed. people are too looked after, given a free ride, talked to and supported instead of being punished, you'll find I agree with you. It's just that why couldn't we get to break this cycle somehow earlier rather than it getting to this stage? I find that by reaching this stage we have failed somehow.