salsa-king

does that include VAT?

zip106

VAT. What's that?

Cash only here.

Diesel

Stop swinging the Prada clutch bag mate - put it back in the pram!

I would never EVER describe your job as menial - you must have a big chip on your shoulder as well as a bad attitude to come up with that

You may deal with customers that have more cash than me and earn more than me. However if you think yours is a job worth £30 an hour or more I disagree; it is clearly not in most people's view or in their affordability stakes (just like many other decent honest jobs).

I'm pretty happy to earn less than £30 an hour myself so get a grip and calm down!

D

zip106

Nope, no chip or attitude.

As it is I only work 4 days a week and earn a very good living from it.

So, £30 an hour is too much in most peoples view?
You mean out of the 10 or so people who have posted on this thread?

Righto. They make a BIG difference .
As it is, MOST of my customers will happily pay that for me to do their work.

Not me with the chip and attitude. I really couldn't give a flying fig what the SN masses think of our wages - it makes not one bit of difference.
Have a nice day.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Well my brother was one £125 a day.....until the work dried up. He hasn't had a 'proper' painting job for nearly 3 months!

Now he will quite happily work for £6-£7 an hour, or whatever he can get.

Diesel

Ahha - Loadsamoney is still alive and kicking and down to working a 4 day week I see!

Whatever your arrogant attitude to customers and pricing, in the real world people make decisions on it all the time. Well I know they do when I price a job up. If I go in high and lose the gig I dont have your sort of attitude to fall back on. That's probably a good thing for any client/supplier relationship really.

D

Mitchy260

I think you need bringing back down to Earth mate if you think the typical annual salary of a painter and decorator is ITRO of £60k pa

£30 an hour x 40hrs per week x 52 weeks a year = £62,400pa

Google 'painter and decorator salary' and you will find that typically you earn no-where near £20 an hour, never mind £30 an hour Infact i think you'll find the going rate is around £10 an hour or less.

A quick google reveals...

http://www.connexions-direct.com/job...etailedArticle

Painter and Decorator Job Profile - Careers Advice by Careers Advice

Painter and Decorator Jobs Profile

This 1 clearly shows £10 an hour or less..

painter decorator jobs in london - JobisJob UK

I shall not carry on with the links, i think 99% of people on here know fine well that it is a fairly low paid job, and by low paid, i mean under British average salary (<£26k) not minimum wage stuff.

Now, there may be some who earn £250 a day a couple of times a week, a couple of months per year but how reliable is this? It's not going to pay the mortgage month in, month out and over the year, it turns out to be a hideously low income so you are running it risky if you are going down the SE route.

At the moment, i suspect most people will be doing it themselves and any work that there is, there will be a few hundred recently unemployed painters fighting for that work and pushing the hourly rates down.

Being in Aberdeen, i do actually know someone who is a painter offshore with a day rate of £185 a day. However that is for 12hrs work 14days at a time 13x a year in the middle of the N.Sea so a pretty shi**y lifestyle but higher earnings if he was working onshore (If not then why would he do it)

£185x14x13 = £33670.

Going back to the SE route, No point claiming you earn £1000 per week when you can only do it a few weeks of the year, take it over the 52 weeks and then average it out, if you want to go down that road.

I do admit, the top quality guys (The decorators who take pride in their work) should be paid quite a bit more than painters who paint rusty old railings all day, and ive already been proven wrong in this thread that there is some skill involved. (So apologies)

I'll be honest, most of the guys i know who went down the P+D route left school with virtually no GCSE's between them, you certainly do not need a top masters from Cambridge to get into the industry.

I guess ill just need to take your word for it that you earn £30+hr all year round doing what you do

zip106

I didn't say it was a typical annual salary.
Didn't say I earn £30 ph EVERY day either, did I. I start work at 8.30 am and finish around 4pm with an hours break split through the day. = £195 - £225 per day. Don't forget the subby's either - I don't provide them for nothing!

Any self employed brilliant deccy can earn that if they can find the right work. It takes a bit of doing but no-one will give it you for nothing. I've built up a very good 'affluent' customer base over those years and certainly I haven't always earnt that much but for the last 5 years or so it's been good and I'm now booked up through to June 2009
You have to get off your **** and find it, like I have done for the last 23 years.

My wages don't pay my mortgage - ,my wages just pay for lifes' little luxuries like a car, holidays etc.


Diesel - I'm not arrogant, I've just been around long enough to know who are the best customers, I've run my business with that in mind and so far it's worked!

If the work dries up then I'll re-evaluate.

I have personal reasons for working a 4 day week that you will never know so I really don't think you can bring the 'Loadsamoney' thing into it
Let's face it, If I had an arrogant attitude to my customers, well, they wouldn't be coming back to me for the last 20 odd years would they?

The customer is always right, after all.

salsa-king

You're banning your head against a brick wall Andy.






Yep, so what, a decorators not a 'highly' paid job.

but i look at it like this... I work in the family business my father's been in business since 1965-to present day, started work at the age of fifteen,married bought a nice house (which they still live in) took on an apprentice in 1966 who's still working for us now! (who's more than happy to have a wage packet at the end of each week and DOESN'T want the hassle of being self employed etc)
Had a number of employees over the years (total of 7 all at once in the 80's)

I've been put through private school education since the age of 4-16, also my sister too. Mum's never been to work since the day i was born and also smokes 60 **** a day, as a family we've never wanted for anything (within reason )... all paid for through being a decorator




So you don't need GCSE's etc to do it, but you need a flare if you want to do something more than painting railings or council houses out lol
When I taught P+D at Basford Hall college in the mid 90's those kids who weren't academically bright all worked for big painting contractors, doing sh#t painting jobs and never progressed future than Level 2 NVQ.. that only took a year. As soon as the painting contractors had had them for the two years the CITB youth training (the old YTS thigie) lasted, they got rid of them and started the process all over again. These kids never completed a full NVQ course, or they were only put on the parts of the course that they were told to do by their employer. So were never fully qualified hence never paid their full wage allowage for their age if they had been.





PAY:
It's something my wife and I have spoke about these last few months, saying that friends we have who did A-levels, a degree and some with Masters, yes do earn bigger money than myself, they're in Sales or IT or banking etc.
BUT... they all have the fear of loosing their jobs if they don't perform or the business isn't doing so well in todays climate (as everyone is), then along with everyone else in there 'field' they are then finding it hard to find jobs to take them back on.
They also work long hours, leave early in a morning, come back late at night, work away or travel alot also.

Yes they have the money but they also lose out on the family/home life/quality time.



I then look at myself as a decorators, as with any 'trade' I can always earn a bit of spare cash (If I wanted), have 5weeks paid holiday a year (when I take it) and being in the family business also have felxibilty on my working times if required.


I also have a fabulous painted house............. Or should I say a fabulous house thanks to my wife and the NHS





There's a lot worse jobs to have than a DECORATOR!

All Torque

It looks like i`ve opened a can of worms here, as I have already said the original poster wanted to know how much to charge a plumber for cocking up his and I take it to be freshly painted room. If he had called our company in he would have been quoted the day work rate of £30/hour plus materials, a bad leak would probably have ruined the plasterboard ceiling which would have to be cut out and repaired. Walls could have blown which would need hacking off and re plastering, if he has MDF wood work that will swell to twice its size and would need renewing, before us decorators even get there, like I have said there "could" be unseen work.
We also have a small building side that could do all these jobs before hand.
Of course it could be that it only needs some stains sealing a bit of prep work and then redec.
Also with us we do contracts that quite often go into the millions of pounds and as I also said there are deadlines and sometimes they do go over and the main contractor gets counter charged every week to the tune of say 50k/week because the building is not finished usually because of other trades **** ups, who do they look at to bail them out, us deccys:-
because there is a ceiling/wall that have had a leek from above, there are dirty marks/scuffs on walls, scratches on doors/woodwork, wallpaper scagged, light fittings in the wrong place, well none of these come in paint cans.
A bill for a few grand from us @ £30/hour seems quite reasonable now dont you think, anyways it`s usually counter charged back to the other trades who will pay out from their public liability insurance.

londonpd

Just seen this thread. the comments made on this forum about painting and decorating is a joke. There's a saying "if you can ****, you can paint". NOT TRUE. I recently worked for a firm in the city of london, doing specialist decorating (silk papers, high quality paints and specialist work) I earn £75 p/h. I earn this because I am good at what I do. Some of the other guys on the firm where earning £20 p/h, if I was paying any of them to paint for me, I would have sacked the lot. There's a lot more to being a professional painter than just throwing paint on a wall. I have seen so called quality work, where people have charged £30 + p/h and I have snagged the hell out of it. I charge the amount I do because you pay for my skill and experience, I leave with a perfect job at the HIGHEST standard possible. If your paying £10 p/h or anything under £150 p/d then you obviously do not have a keen eye for detail or care about the quality you receive and therefore deserve the quality you receive. Some people like to just see the colour on the wall, and call that quality because it looks neat. We use 1500watt bulbs to see every inperfection the wall has to offer, then we remove them. There are no bumps, drips, scuffs, fluff, hair, or dust in our paintwork, we work in dust free environment.

Its true there are some decent painters out there who do resonable quality work that dont charge alot, they are mugs for selling themselves short, or just dont have the confidence or skill to do actual high quality work. It depends what you are after and willing to pay for.

My clients look for perfection, and that is the service I offer, that is why im on nearly £200,000 p/a.

classic Subaru Si

londonpd

On any building site, the decorator is your friend. He/she will get any trade out of trouble, and a decent decorator will charge £50 p/h +, and make your home a palace. I started as an apprectice on £80 p/d 13 years ago. Im now 29 and earn £750 p/d. I have OCD for perfection and cleanliness. I took 4 years out to do a degree, and straight after went back as a decorator. Im a qualified graphic designer but earn way more doing this, because It came easy to me, Ive been taught it all my life and im a perfectionist. Painting a wall or skirting is the easiest job going, and as a standard painter £6.50 - 10.50 p/h you dont need any skill and very little training to do this, that is why you earn that much. The more skilled you are, the more you charge.

Back to the original question. He should charge £30 p/h plus materials if that is what the working rate is. People dont tend to scuff my walls, and walk on eggshells when they go near my work. If its finished and you scuff it, ill have to repaint the wall twice, if it takes an hour, then its £75 + materials, some paints are over £150 per gallon, so you dont want to be counter charged by me

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

mate - the original post is 3 and a half years old...

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

So you earn £3750 per week?
Jesus, near on £200k a year. I am re-training!

classic Subaru Si

Sorry, but I just don't believe anyone would pay this much for a P&D, not even in London. Building trade is still on its ar$e. Infact, I don't know anyone who would pay more than £150 per day for a decorator, no matter how good they are...

Bristol98

Where's me brush!

Coffin Dodger

Yeah, can't be that difficult can it

marcevs72

iTrader: (5)

thats the difference between a painter and a decorator.
i have just finished a level 2 diploma in decorating after leaving army and was harder than i thought it would be.my rates are £125 a day for single day jobs and bigger jobs areprice for the job not how long it takes as i make sure its perfect (thats the ocd squaddie in me ).i am doing level 3 in september as going to teach at plymouth city college when finished.

classic Subaru Si

I never said it was easy mate, just not having 750 quid a day as a normal days work for a p&d

londonpd

I do earn exceptional money for the trade, but in my circle of contacts and refferals I can charge that amount. Ive been friends with some private school pals who now work for banks, and other high class jobs. Their parents own multi million pound homes, and would think nothing of paying £30,000 to have their living room decorated. These are the fancy mansions on Harley street etc... lots of character and detailing, some listed buildings. My last price job was worth £60,000, 45 grand of that was just the wallpaper. We are talking about a room 20x30 feet, 4 metre high ceilings. the flooring cost him 80 grand, with underfloor heating. With these guys, they dont want to pay someone £10.50 p/h to hang this kind of wallpaper, they need to know that you know what your doing and not going to F**K it up, so they'll pay you to do it right, and spot on. I had to use lasers to line the pattern up so it wasnt even a mm out through the whole room.

last summer I hung wide silk paper in a central london hotel. It was £1800 a drop. They had 2 massive function rooms done out in this paper, the rooms were the size of an actual football pitch each.

This kind of money is there to be earned, you just need the right contacts and the confidence to handle the materials. I had a guy who said he knew what he was doing. He cut 4 drops wrong and they were too short. I couldnt use them anywhere, so he cost me £7200 in a matter of 10 minutes.

which is why I pay for my own decorators mate, he knows what he is doing. he may not be able to hang the paper, but he is spot on with the labouring side of it.

londonpd

My father worked on a house that a guy bought for his daughter. He paid £1.7M to have this house decorated alone, then when it was finished he went on to do the other daughters house which he spent the same money on.

marcevs72

iTrader: (5)

thats the sort of skills i am gaining.my level 3 diploma includes work for national trust and english heritage.people dont realise how expensive some materials are and how much the pro's fitting them cost.

londonpd

Over the next 2 years, one of the biggest banks in the world is spending £80m refurbishing their offices in London, about 10m is decorating, which includes wide vinyl, mouldings and French polishing, and that was the cheapest quote, my old boss had half the contract. And the contracts are usually discussed down the pub between the bosses. It's who you know in this game if you want to earn the money

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

To fair, painting and decorating is probably the easiest of all trade's, i would never dream of paying someone to do it.

londonpd

Within 3 years of starting the company my old boss has made 1.5M profit from his decorating work. And most of it is toshed out by the eastern European agency workers with English Forman to over see. They even had 2 Lithuanian men as Forman. He charges 200 a day and pays the men 95, so wrong but then you get what you pay for. He was making 250 a day off me

marcevs72

iTrader: (5)

Shows you don't know much then.anyone can paint a wall etc but it takes skill to be a good decorator.plus you don't know what it takes to get the qualifications now.not easy at all believe me as just done it a few weeks ago (was 1 question away from getting a distinction).

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

Im not talking about just painting walls, hanging paper is also easy!

I know all about qualifications.......NVQ level 3 Lift Engineer/Installation and NVQ level 4 Tester...

Im not knocking painting/decorating, as i said IMO it is the easiest or all trade's.

salsa-king

omg... November 2008!!!


when I was lecturing at college, they stated the 'special' needs kids on NVQ level 2 P&D lol

marcevs72

iTrader: (5)

so my course is that easy special needs kids can go do it? i dont think so.(nothing against special needs kids)
i have even had to do site plans,roofing,building walls etc not just chucking some paint and wall paper on the walls.then there is the hanging of lincrusta wallpapers and foil papers the list is a long one that is involved to get qualified now.
plus on site we are the ones that have to make the other trades work look good and the phrase polish a turd springs to mind with some of the plastering etc i have been asked to prep and paint over.