Is it really that bad?
03 December 2008, 11:26 AM
#31
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Well SSWUp, I am sure you realise that Flash and his creepy spin doctor associates who have been already caught out for lying through their teeth, and/or sacked for underhand behaviour, are working towards the next general election. All this of which you speak is being engineered so that they can call an election under short notice if they see the chance of victory. They know full well that if they leave it until the real effects of the recession are felt they will be marmelised by the voters.
At the same time, as has been mentioned, businesses are already in trouble over their need for credit which the banks are witholding from them and the job losses have already started.
The so called fiscal stimulus is all for show of course and will not do anything significant to aid their Keynesian ideas of keeping us all spending to boost what economy we have left at the moment. Even Callaghan who tried it in similar desperation said in the end that the idea of spending your way out of a recession is not a goer!
How do you feel about the National Debt which is said to be in the £1 Trillion class and which will be increased by the £100 billion or so that they intend to borrow this year with even more scheduled for the year after that. If you can manage to keep borrowing from the IMF you can make it all look rosy until the IMF say the same as they did to Callaghan!
What is your take on that National debt and the fact that it will have to be paid back, as well as the interest of course, and that will not be just us doing that but generations to come! Effectively we are using the money which belongs to those who come behind us, and all because of the shameful way in which the economy has been run, and the pitifully poor supervision of the greedy and incompetent bankers!
I have not even mentioned the huge PFI debts which still have to be paid off-over a good few years too!
They are now saying that Flash is considering joining the Euro in yet another desperate attempt to both curry favour with them and to keep his head above water!
What a shame it is to see this once great country being dragged down into the depths and being handed over to the Eu whose Commission has not yet been able to get their accounts passed by the international auditors for the last 12 years! Where did those millions of Euro's go I wonder?
Les
At the same time, as has been mentioned, businesses are already in trouble over their need for credit which the banks are witholding from them and the job losses have already started.
The so called fiscal stimulus is all for show of course and will not do anything significant to aid their Keynesian ideas of keeping us all spending to boost what economy we have left at the moment. Even Callaghan who tried it in similar desperation said in the end that the idea of spending your way out of a recession is not a goer!
How do you feel about the National Debt which is said to be in the £1 Trillion class and which will be increased by the £100 billion or so that they intend to borrow this year with even more scheduled for the year after that. If you can manage to keep borrowing from the IMF you can make it all look rosy until the IMF say the same as they did to Callaghan!
What is your take on that National debt and the fact that it will have to be paid back, as well as the interest of course, and that will not be just us doing that but generations to come! Effectively we are using the money which belongs to those who come behind us, and all because of the shameful way in which the economy has been run, and the pitifully poor supervision of the greedy and incompetent bankers!
I have not even mentioned the huge PFI debts which still have to be paid off-over a good few years too!
They are now saying that Flash is considering joining the Euro in yet another desperate attempt to both curry favour with them and to keep his head above water!
What a shame it is to see this once great country being dragged down into the depths and being handed over to the Eu whose Commission has not yet been able to get their accounts passed by the international auditors for the last 12 years! Where did those millions of Euro's go I wonder?
Les
Last edited by Leslie; 03 December 2008 at 11:31 AM.
03 December 2008, 11:26 AM
#32
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We've let one person go and are either going to halve the planned bonuses or not give out any at all.
03 December 2008, 03:52 PM
#33
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The worst is yet to come. Even those who feel secure in their jobs could find things change very very quickly indeed. Full order books mean nothing if the companies filling those books themselves go bust. I hope thats not the case for Matee and others here but it could happen.
Anybody who has not been controlling their spending over at least the last two years could see themselves in serious trouble.
As for prices coming down, I'm not so convinced (with the exception of petrol) I'm in thhe market for some AV gear and the prices have GONE UP over the last few weeks due to the weakness of the pound. Remember we don't make things in this country anymore
Anybody who has not been controlling their spending over at least the last two years could see themselves in serious trouble.
As for prices coming down, I'm not so convinced (with the exception of petrol) I'm in thhe market for some AV gear and the prices have GONE UP over the last few weeks due to the weakness of the pound. Remember we don't make things in this country anymore
03 December 2008, 03:57 PM
#34
The recession I mean.
Woolies and MFI in trouble ... not really a surprise.
Every other shop offering at least 20% off everything.
I may be just lucky, but I do not feel any worse off than I did 12 months ago?
OK, my house (if I sold) is worth 15% less than it was in November 2007 - but, I'm not selling so who gives a ****?
My car is worth less than a Xmas selection box, but I'm not selling.
Things are cheaper, shops are offering 20% Off and more, good news.
Petrol is as cheap as it was a long time ago, hotel rooms are dirt cheap (staying in the New Forest between Xmas and New Year for pennies).
VAT is down - small amount, but it adds up.
If I want to buy a car, I now get two instead of one!
If I want a second home it is a Bank Loan, not a mortgage.
I haven't felt any change, just everything is cheaper and everyone seems to be panicking ...... am I alone in feeling immune, or is it actually not that bad?
Puzzelled?
Woolies and MFI in trouble ... not really a surprise.
Every other shop offering at least 20% off everything.
I may be just lucky, but I do not feel any worse off than I did 12 months ago?
OK, my house (if I sold) is worth 15% less than it was in November 2007 - but, I'm not selling so who gives a ****?
My car is worth less than a Xmas selection box, but I'm not selling.
Things are cheaper, shops are offering 20% Off and more, good news.
Petrol is as cheap as it was a long time ago, hotel rooms are dirt cheap (staying in the New Forest between Xmas and New Year for pennies).
VAT is down - small amount, but it adds up.
If I want to buy a car, I now get two instead of one!
If I want a second home it is a Bank Loan, not a mortgage.
I haven't felt any change, just everything is cheaper and everyone seems to be panicking ...... am I alone in feeling immune, or is it actually not that bad?
Puzzelled?
i must say that i agree with a lot of your post. i dont own my home its rented from the council and have even considered buying it after christmas
i am much better off than i was this time last year!
03 December 2008, 06:57 PM
#38
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Don't get my initial post wrong, I was not being smug, I was not gloating - I was simply saying that I haven't actually felt worse off than I did 12 months ago.
I am aware that some Estate Agents are suffering, as are Builders, Buy-To-Letters, Bankers and those who borrowed beyond their means to live a life they could not, in reality, afford .... I do not feel too much pain for these.
I do, however, feel for those in MFI, Woolworths ... and those who, through no fault of their own, find themselves without a job.
Simply looking to see who were really feeling it and who, like me, it hasn't hit home yet (maybe it will?)
I am aware that some Estate Agents are suffering, as are Builders, Buy-To-Letters, Bankers and those who borrowed beyond their means to live a life they could not, in reality, afford .... I do not feel too much pain for these.
I do, however, feel for those in MFI, Woolworths ... and those who, through no fault of their own, find themselves without a job.
Simply looking to see who were really feeling it and who, like me, it hasn't hit home yet (maybe it will?)
03 December 2008, 07:02 PM
#39
Don't get my initial post wrong, I was not being smug, I was not gloating - I was simply saying that I haven't actually felt worse off than I did 12 months ago.
I am aware that some Estate Agents are suffering, as are Builders, Buy-To-Letters, Bankers and those who borrowed beyond their means to live a life they could not, in reality, afford .... I do not feel too much pain for these.
I do, however, feel for those in MFI, Woolworths ... and those who, through no fault of their own, find themselves without a job.
Simply looking to see who were really feeling it and who, like me, it hasn't hit home yet (maybe it will?)
I am aware that some Estate Agents are suffering, as are Builders, Buy-To-Letters, Bankers and those who borrowed beyond their means to live a life they could not, in reality, afford .... I do not feel too much pain for these.
I do, however, feel for those in MFI, Woolworths ... and those who, through no fault of their own, find themselves without a job.
Simply looking to see who were really feeling it and who, like me, it hasn't hit home yet (maybe it will?)
03 December 2008, 07:13 PM
#42
Much as I sympathise with those at Woolies (having worked there in IT) and MFI I think the writing had been on the wall for Woolies for a long time, the current situation just hastened the ineviatable, they had been loosing money for a long time.
I personally dont feel too bad financially at the moment but not looking at share prices and investment rates helps, week to week we are ok but you cant look at this in a parochial manner, there are huge ramifications and nobody can claim to be 100 % safe, hopefully those who do feel confident will spend and keep the economy going, hopefully those who arsed it up will pay !
There are a lot of cheap four by fours at the moment....
I personally dont feel too bad financially at the moment but not looking at share prices and investment rates helps, week to week we are ok but you cant look at this in a parochial manner, there are huge ramifications and nobody can claim to be 100 % safe, hopefully those who do feel confident will spend and keep the economy going, hopefully those who arsed it up will pay !
There are a lot of cheap four by fours at the moment....
03 December 2008, 07:24 PM
#44
I feel much better !!!
Everyone ,company ,government who has raped us over the last couple of years has now seen that they have had their last drop of blood from us poor souls .
If it means prices ,costs settle down then that will be good for most of us .
Those who have taken the money out of our pockets excessively (eg 30% more for gas/electric etc) have nearly brought this country to its knees .
Now lots have nothing left to spend and this in turn will be why people will lose jobs.Not able to buy goods/cars/holidays etc will hit a lot of people .Put a lot out of work .
I am happy if this stops prices rising like they have ,because it has become ridiculous .
Everyone ,company ,government who has raped us over the last couple of years has now seen that they have had their last drop of blood from us poor souls .
If it means prices ,costs settle down then that will be good for most of us .
Those who have taken the money out of our pockets excessively (eg 30% more for gas/electric etc) have nearly brought this country to its knees .
Now lots have nothing left to spend and this in turn will be why people will lose jobs.Not able to buy goods/cars/holidays etc will hit a lot of people .Put a lot out of work .
I am happy if this stops prices rising like they have ,because it has become ridiculous .
03 December 2008, 07:32 PM
#45
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I work for a big IT/telecoms firm and in the last couple of months a fair number of customers have gone bust, and others are now behind on payments so clearly having issues. Things are clearly getting worse.
What I find a bit worrying is there is not really any light at the end of the tunnel - what exactly does this country provide now? Don't really have many natural resources left like coal and oil. Manufacturing pretty much dead by the last recession in the early 90's, and since then it's been financial companies which have made this country money, and a MASSIVE debt boom has made everyone feel rich.
IMO this is more than a recession, and will develop into a depression.
What I find a bit worrying is there is not really any light at the end of the tunnel - what exactly does this country provide now? Don't really have many natural resources left like coal and oil. Manufacturing pretty much dead by the last recession in the early 90's, and since then it's been financial companies which have made this country money, and a MASSIVE debt boom has made everyone feel rich.
IMO this is more than a recession, and will develop into a depression.
03 December 2008, 07:39 PM
#46
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Everyone i know is no worse off than a year ago,I dont know anyone who has lost their job or house.I am the best i have been for years,sold a house earlier this year that was empty for 6 months,made a tidy sum and almost cleared my mortgage on the house i live in now and so that has seen me over £500 a month better off,also kept a big wedge back to finish building at home off and all my BLT's keep coming down each month.
The wife is the main earner while i'm working on our house,she is a self employed courier for parcelnet working from home and is busier than ever with people still ordering their next,grattons,qvc,debs etc.
I have struggled in the past but now its my turn to have it good i suppose.
The wife is the main earner while i'm working on our house,she is a self employed courier for parcelnet working from home and is busier than ever with people still ordering their next,grattons,qvc,debs etc.
I have struggled in the past but now its my turn to have it good i suppose.
03 December 2008, 07:43 PM
#47
A few months ago people comming off fixed rate mortgages were struggling to get 6.5% and tieing themselves in for life at that
thinking they had a good deal
we have just remortgaged at a significantly lower rate and saved £200 pcm
and got 40k more
for our holiday home / b&b so this credit crunch as so far worked in our favour and we fixed for 2yrs and when all the fuss is over we will sell here and go live in the sun in relative comfort 
or at least thats the plan
so it's not all doom and gloom if you have a life plan and stick to it without over extending yourself..
I do however feel sorry for those who through no fault of there own find themselves unable to pay their bills, lets hope the promised help in the mini budget helps..
And im not being smug as i genuinley no what true hardship is which is why we have made plans the way we have..
thinking they had a good deal we have just remortgaged at a significantly lower rate and saved £200 pcm
and got 40k more
for our holiday home / b&b so this credit crunch as so far worked in our favour and we fixed for 2yrs and when all the fuss is over we will sell here and go live in the sun in relative comfort or at least thats the plan so it's not all doom and gloom if you have a life plan and stick to it without over extending yourself..
I do however feel sorry for those who through no fault of there own find themselves unable to pay their bills, lets hope the promised help in the mini budget helps..
And im not being smug as i genuinley no what true hardship is which is why we have made plans the way we have..
03 December 2008, 08:03 PM
#48
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sometimes its hard for those who have it good now , not to come over as "smug" . Good luck to them and see if its still in your favor next year?
so many just got into debt because of basic 'education: when dealing with banks etc. Everyone found it so easy to buy and never have to touch real cash. I dont think they should be the only ones to take the blame . banks and credit companies where like Crack dealers......going in for the long term and getting everyone addicted. For that i dont blame many for not wanting to pay back the debts to banks and use that money for rent and food etc. At the end of the day we all need to hold tight because this "hasnt even started yet" and will get major by june next year. The fall out from this mess will live with us for ever
so many just got into debt because of basic 'education: when dealing with banks etc. Everyone found it so easy to buy and never have to touch real cash. I dont think they should be the only ones to take the blame . banks and credit companies where like Crack dealers......going in for the long term and getting everyone addicted. For that i dont blame many for not wanting to pay back the debts to banks and use that money for rent and food etc. At the end of the day we all need to hold tight because this "hasnt even started yet" and will get major by june next year. The fall out from this mess will live with us for ever
03 December 2008, 08:08 PM
#49
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I fully echo what some have said about the reality of this, I also think some are delluded if they think that because they have not noticed anything now, means they will be OK in the future.
The fact of the matter is, regardless of what you read there is no quick fix. With stories reporting an upturn during 2010 I think those economists are living on cloud nine!
The facts are clear and the facts are simple.....
If GM or Ford go to the wall the impact on the global economy will be huge, whether that is direct or indirect. OK... so the US State bails them out for a short term..... what happens then? People are still being made unemployed and not buying new cars. Don't paper over the cracks and stop the inevitable. Manufacturers are currently running the risk of having no where to store unsold cars...... this has been building up for a while now.
Whether people want to accept it or not, unemployment WILL increase and perhaps very sharply in the New Year. What does that mean? Many things, in particular one area that not many people have fully realised..... more unpaid debt. If you think the banks are in the brown stuff now, what do you think will happen when masses of debt will not be repaid. This would put the banks out of any government bail out plan. Like to think what would happen to national economies then. This helps to bash the value of the £.... you really think it is not possible that this could collapse?
Regardless of what favourable position you think you may be in now, please do not think that it could not all turn to rat crap. I don't care how cash rich you are, when you have no continued income and your money is not worth the paper it is written on, your position may not be as favourable. You can not plan for this kind of thing, regardless of what your folks might of told you.
As regards to local government jobs etc.... these are being affected already and I suspect you will see major changes in perception on what is a so called safe bet. Nothing is safe, regardless of what line of business you are in.
This nuke has only just been launched, it is yet to hit the ground and the TRUE fallout is yet to be realised.
Doom and gloom probably.... reality of what is around the corner, a strong possibility.
Batten down the hatches.... peoples stupidity will cause ongoing issues for a generation.
The fact of the matter is, regardless of what you read there is no quick fix. With stories reporting an upturn during 2010 I think those economists are living on cloud nine!
The facts are clear and the facts are simple.....
If GM or Ford go to the wall the impact on the global economy will be huge, whether that is direct or indirect. OK... so the US State bails them out for a short term..... what happens then? People are still being made unemployed and not buying new cars. Don't paper over the cracks and stop the inevitable. Manufacturers are currently running the risk of having no where to store unsold cars...... this has been building up for a while now.
Whether people want to accept it or not, unemployment WILL increase and perhaps very sharply in the New Year. What does that mean? Many things, in particular one area that not many people have fully realised..... more unpaid debt. If you think the banks are in the brown stuff now, what do you think will happen when masses of debt will not be repaid. This would put the banks out of any government bail out plan. Like to think what would happen to national economies then. This helps to bash the value of the £.... you really think it is not possible that this could collapse?
Regardless of what favourable position you think you may be in now, please do not think that it could not all turn to rat crap. I don't care how cash rich you are, when you have no continued income and your money is not worth the paper it is written on, your position may not be as favourable. You can not plan for this kind of thing, regardless of what your folks might of told you.
As regards to local government jobs etc.... these are being affected already and I suspect you will see major changes in perception on what is a so called safe bet. Nothing is safe, regardless of what line of business you are in.
This nuke has only just been launched, it is yet to hit the ground and the TRUE fallout is yet to be realised.
Doom and gloom probably.... reality of what is around the corner, a strong possibility.
Batten down the hatches.... peoples stupidity will cause ongoing issues for a generation.
Last edited by Shaun; 03 December 2008 at 08:10 PM.
03 December 2008, 08:18 PM
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I imagine that in 10 years time 1000's will have to sell there homes as they cannot survive retirement due to private pensions not been paid And rising prices etc. maybe 100000's families torn apart and the social services left to deal with it.
But lets move into crime. there will be be some very desperate people out there . God only knows if it turns into "dog eat dog " time?
But lets move into crime. there will be be some very desperate people out there . God only knows if it turns into "dog eat dog " time?
03 December 2008, 08:25 PM
#52
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Oh, look everyone is biting and riding the pissy ones trouser leg, yet again, how original. 
I'm surprised at the new super mods mind. Mod Lesson No. 1 = Learn thy troll 
I'm surprised at the new super mods mind. Mod Lesson No. 1 = Learn thy troll
03 December 2008, 08:25 PM
#53
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we've got more work than we know what to do with at the moment, worked until 11-ish last night and apart from a short break at the moment will do the same tonight
we work in alot of industries that are supposedy in trouble, namely:-
motorsport - was at formula ford sample day yesterday and ALL the teams are very upbeat about next year, and happily buying stuff. Was at a motorsport trade show in Germany a couple of weeks ago, and again money was flowing freely and there were some new championships starting up that are fully subscribed already.
aviation - yep airports look empty but the 6 flights I took in november were all at least 3/4 full, and they're still buying stuff....although we have put most of them on pre-pay!
logistics/freight - again no slow down on this despite the freight market supposedly very slow. Ok TNT have made 500 redundant and courier company drivers are all saying it's VERY quiet but the companies are still spending.
Personally I think we've talked ourselves in to the recession but it's now inevitable because of the initial scare-mongering and next year will be very bad and 2010 probably the worst!
we work in alot of industries that are supposedy in trouble, namely:-
motorsport - was at formula ford sample day yesterday and ALL the teams are very upbeat about next year, and happily buying stuff. Was at a motorsport trade show in Germany a couple of weeks ago, and again money was flowing freely and there were some new championships starting up that are fully subscribed already.
aviation - yep airports look empty but the 6 flights I took in november were all at least 3/4 full, and they're still buying stuff....although we have put most of them on pre-pay!
logistics/freight - again no slow down on this despite the freight market supposedly very slow. Ok TNT have made 500 redundant and courier company drivers are all saying it's VERY quiet but the companies are still spending.
Personally I think we've talked ourselves in to the recession but it's now inevitable because of the initial scare-mongering and next year will be very bad and 2010 probably the worst!
03 December 2008, 08:35 PM
#60
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one things for sure -- the world goes round, the recession will end and things will get back to normal
crazy house prices, multi billion pound bonus,s for sharp suited tossers making money on one way bets
but i think the difference might be, that it might dawn on people, how 80% of the population were given an ever so slighlty painful shafting by the "money" boys -- these masters of the universe who paid themselves roughly what the Tax payer has had to susequently find to compensate.
but people didnt realise they were being "slid a kipper" coz they were gorgeing themselves on cheap credit
and when it happens again -- as it will, maybe then some thing meaningful will be done about it
crazy house prices, multi billion pound bonus,s for sharp suited tossers making money on one way bets
but i think the difference might be, that it might dawn on people, how 80% of the population were given an ever so slighlty painful shafting by the "money" boys -- these masters of the universe who paid themselves roughly what the Tax payer has had to susequently find to compensate.
but people didnt realise they were being "slid a kipper" coz they were gorgeing themselves on cheap credit
and when it happens again -- as it will, maybe then some thing meaningful will be done about it
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 03 December 2008 at 08:37 PM.