r32

Massive borrowing, free money to the banks, the pound in a slide 1 pound to the Euro and he thinks he's saved the World????????
Any one noticed any improvements?

PeteBrant

The pounds drop is inevitable as the economy weakens. However, it is absolutely necessary that it happens in order to get the economy going again. The two go hand in hand.

r32

All economys have weakened, but the pound is on the slide against other weak currencies, . Shows what the world economists think of Browns handling of the UK economy...... had they had confidence the pound would strengthen.

warrenm2

if you define running up massive liabilities (pfi and public sector pension, national rail etc etc) and waste as rather well then yes - but in reality, no

Actually people were, just that you werent listening

What's scary is your lack of understanding - I presuming you've been given the vote as well?

Compared to Zimbabwe....

The reason the economy is f***** is down to his decisions! The FSA (created by Gordon) failed, the pension system failing with private schemes closing (raided by Gordon), gold reserves gone (sold by Gordon at lowest point), 2.2million jobs created over 10 years (1.3million created by Gordon in public sector), so very little growth, just more paper pushers not adding value, the waste and mismanagement, the erosion of civil liberties, ID cards and the database state, the unreformed welfare system creating Karen Matthews clones thoughout the country, the unchecked immigration (THAT WAS NL POLICY) the list is endless. But hey, hes doing a great job!

You really dont have a clue

SJ_Skyline

Maybe I'm being naïve but a weaker pound means it's cheaper in other countries to buy British goods which would surely be a good thing for the economy?

Leslie

It also means we have to pay a lot more for imports which includes the raw materials we need.

Its a standard phrase from politicians whenever the pound goes down in value!

Les

r32

You would think so, sadly it doesnt seem to be working that way, huge drop in UK manufacturing output even compared to the rest of the world.
Plus high manufacturing job losses (Mine included!).
I worked for a large multi national, one of the 'Fortune 500' but its the increases in raw materials prices that outweigh the falling pound.

SJ_Skyline

Thanks for putting me straight

unclebuck

"Enough! It's time to put an end to Gordon Brown's ridiculous blame game. As the Prime Minister tells it, Britain's woes started in America. Like some strain of flu, America's problems found their way across the ocean to London and from there to the rest of the British economy.

Good heavens, if you read back through numerous threads on this site over the last 12 - 18 months, and longer, you will see that many of us have been saying Brown cannot blame the UKs economic woes on America. This nation has relied too much on banking and finance, the retail sector and the price of housing to exist and the present economic situation is a direct result of Browns policies, as Chancellor for a decade, and now as PM for more than a year. Areas such as:

- selling off the family Gold Reserves in 2001/2002 and buying US dollars,
- the debacle of child tax credits and tax credits costing the tax-payer in excess of 6bn because it is wide open to abuse and is still being abused, as is child allowance,
- dishing out �bn to Africa for educational purpose,
- dishing out billions of tax-payers money to Pakistan, Afghanistan, India and China,
- Sure start - designed to transform the fortunes of under-fives in 500 of the most deprived wards in England. Thus far, since its introduction in 2000, it has cost the taxpayers in Britain about 6 Billion and, thus far, there is no visible sign of any improvement; rather, wealthier families are taking advantage of the scheme,
- increasing the gap between rich and poor because the economic policies of the last decade have not worked and the poor now pay far more tax than they did in 1997 and paying more tax since 01 April 2008 because of the loss of the 10% starting rate,
- doubling the bill for the NHS to 100bn, which has led to a 10% drop in productivity, possibly due to a reduction in the number of available beds to only 4 per 1000 head of population, and waiting list of 18 weeks and longer to see a consultant. In some areas of the country GPs are being openly encouraged NOT to refer patients to NHS hospitals for tests, procedures or to see consultants. That is NOT meeting the needs of the populace.
- increasing the number of QUANGOs, unelected groups of people often cronies and political friends, that now spend in excess of 170bn of tax-payers money each year on various and nefarious schemes,
- doubling the state education bill to 50bn but increasing numbers are leaving secondary education without any qualifications,
- reducing the defence budget from 4% of GDP to 2% of GDP thus failing to ensure servicemen and women have the equipment, platforms and manpower for them to fight the wars they are involved in courtesy of government foreign policy,
- a lack of social housing for those on low incomes to help them avoid falling into the debt trap of 125% mortgages as dished out by the likes of NR,
- doubling of the iniquitous Council Tax in a decade, hurting pensioners and those on low incomes leading to the eating or heating scenario,
- upward spiralling current account deficit,
- ever increasing trade deficit currently running at 70bn a year,
- doubling the national debt to 574bn and then with Northern Rock, Bradford and Bingley the banks et al, in the region of 1 trillion. That is NOT sound economics.
- too high a rate of taxation on petrol and diesel making it increasingly difficult for those on low and fixed incomes,
- taxed the nation to the hilt, robbed private pension funds, spent the 27bn pot that was in the public domain and spending another 40bn on top leaving a 40bn deficit,
- deliberately failed to restore the link between pay and the state pension meaning increased hardship for many pensioners,
- the utter shambles of PPP/PFI schemes saddling tax-payers and successive generations with increasing debt that will have to be repaid over the coming decades.

And, there are still some who say he is, or was, a prudent Chancellor?"

unclebuck

The biggest problem Brown has is that he is firmly convinced that he is more intelligent than he actually is, and this overweening arrogance has caused him to make a series of utterly stupid decisions. He is a dolt, as is anyone else who thinks they can ignore centuries of hard-won experience of how economies and financial systems work. After hubris comes nemesis, but Brown's well-deserved - and long overdue - fate will have come at the cost of misery for millions.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

So to ub and warrenm2 serious question as you seem to be the most vitriolic on here. Which party do you think we should vote in next to sort this mess out? In your answers can you give me some evidence as to why this will be so rather than soundbites.

Granted this lot have screwed up, but my problem is I don't see anyone waiting in the wings with any answers whatsoever which is why the current incumbents are still in power ... sadly.

r32

Uncle Buck, I salute you!

GC8

Pete; youre a nice bloke with a social conscience, but your grip on economics is as bad as Flash Gordons! According to the broadsheets against the advice of every person, not a paid lackey/adviser who could make themselves heard!

As other have now said, we arent in this alone. The French & Germans and the Americans are in the same boat as us, but the pound is sinking. Thats a damning indictment of Flash's policies. He wont get out of this with spin and a constant manipulation of the economic indicators.

PeteBrant

Thanks man. I think you're a nice bloke too. So I'm not going to retort with some smart alec post and let it lie there.

Klaatu

Still you people don't seem to grasp the fact that it matters not Labour or Tory, it's the "civil servants" behind them that drive policy etc.

SunnySideUp

It would be very interesting to hear what other party option those who think Labour have messed up recommend we should go for?

No good saying, "ANYONE" as that simply doesn't wash.

The reality is that the Tories are the only other option at this moment in time and they are being shown up to be totally and utterly useless.

I want the Government to do something when faced with disaster! And the public seem to agree with me as the polls show.

With a country in economic crisis, the Tories should be so far in front that Labour would not have a chance in hell of winning a Goldfish at the Fair, let alone a General Election!

It's much harder to make decisions at the time than moan and groan with the benefit of hindsight.

I would love to have a viable option to Labour ...... but I do not see one.

warrenm2

My vote goes to UKIP, their economic advisor/policy writer is Tim Congdon, adviser to Maggie in the 80s. They want to double the number of prison places, have a 5 year moritorium on immigration (work visas excluded), close most of the quangos - and oh, want to get our democracy back!

Martin2005

Oh goody a return to trickle down economics, that one ended well didn't it

warrenm2

You mean it didnt end in the worse recession since the 30s?

Martin2005

No it ended after 2 recessions, nd social unrest

A lot of the social problems we still have today can be traced right back to Thatcherism. Trickle down doesn't work, because very little of the wealth ever trickled down past the middle classes.
Whilst I'd agree with you that there was much that was good about the reforms of the 80s, let's not pretend those were halcyon days.

JPF

iTrader: (1)

lol why thank you, sounds like you know it all then.......I actually do have some understanding thank you, I also have a memory too and I distinctly remember that hospitals were closing due to a lack of funding, not as a result of others being built, I also remember schools buildings falling apart, the beginning of the destruction of the post offices and the total annihilation of any coherent rail system, some of what Labour has done hasn't helped things but some have.

PFI? this is to do with working with the private sector no? something that will only increase with the Conservatives, personally I think some things shouldn't be run with private companies as there main goal is profit meaning or taxes effectively go straight to the share holders. This is why we need an alternative, unfortunately there isn't one...at the end of the day I'm not going to get into an argument with you as you don't know me and I don't know you, we clearly disagree and we will only end up getting personal as you have already started.

Oh, sorry actualy I have to reply to this one. No....not entirely anyway, the reason this country if ****ed is largely to do with de-regulation of the banks, started by the Conservative and unfortunately carried on with Labour, a global slowdown, greed of individuals and blatant stupidity of individuals, Oil prices(has an effect on all aspects of life) the list goes on and on and on, at the end of the day things happen in cycles and we were due a downturn, how big a downturn depends on what world governments do now, not just ours as this is a global issue.....and it just happens most are going the investment route rather than sitting there waiting for it to all go away.

stuart n

Britain is a "net importer" meaning we import more than we export. The value of the pound falling is a bad thing.

JPF

iTrader: (1)

"our's is worse 'cos Flash has foo-barred the economy for electoral gain" um well going by most posts on here that are very negative for him it hasn't worked has it lol

What you mean by that anyway? if you mean things like the "bank bailout" well what choice is there really? if our main banks go down how the hells our economy going to work? what happens to savings, mortgages loans etc? its good the government took chunks of our banks, it means they take control, there by making them stop re-possessing homes so quick and getting them to lend money again to business etc, rather than calling in loans and making small companies go bust.

Drop in VAT? well maybe it wasn't enough of a drop to help maybe it was, we will have to see, at the end of the day the government has to do something to get the economy going again or things will get worse.

If the government does or doesn't borrow more now, tax will be going up anyway, don't borrow and invest and more people will loose jobs etc so will cost more later, borrow more now and save some jobs and prevent some from loosing there homes etc will mean less needs to be done later, but you have to pay for the borrowing.
Personally I'd prefer a government try to help people abt to lose there homes and jobs rather than just sit on its hands hoping things will work out.

People are still having a go without giving alternatives, to me it makes sense for a government to step up and try to help deal with things now, I cant see any other alternatives, can anybody else? any financial people on here got any ideas? it maybe more constructive than just having the same old arguments abt what the government did or didn't do.

vindaloo

Two points....

Do you think maybe it was Boris in a Scottish wig rather than Gordon who made that speech and it actually WAS a joke. a-la - we invented ping-pong.

UK is a financial powerhouse <sic>. We're paying the price of being a regional leader in financial markets and financial products. Our government got its **** kicked hugely over Nothern Rock (rightly so!) but has since acted to stop the rot. In so far as it can do so. You might want to speculate that the UK will do better in the next 12-24 months and that the pound will come back strongly.

J.

FlightMan

I've gone from being a NL supporter, fell for TB hook line and sinker, to in the last 24 months thinking maybe Cameron's Tories are electable, and hoping they'll form the next Govt.

Sorry to say it Dave, you've blown it for me. The last 8 weeks have done him and the Tories no favours at all, IMHO. I haven't seen anything from him that suggests he has a grasp on what needs to be done to help sort this out. And, whilst I don't think GB has any real answers to what's currently happening, his time at the treasury has left him with a good reputation worldwide. That's going to be worth something in the next few years.

I think this country is heading for an almighty fall, and it will takes years before we come out of it. Some of that is down to GB, some isn't. Either way, it's a different world now.

cster

This thread is a bloody good laugh
Keep it up lads!

Bubba po

I've managed to avoid this thread for three days, now; why the hell did I click on it and actually read the thing?

Tedious in the extreme.