Minor Collision With a Horse - Advise Required Please
13 December 2008, 10:35 AM
#35
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I agree with Bubba's post, it is really important that vehicles give animals all the room that they can for the obvious reason that you cannot guarantee what an animal is thinking. It is worth remembering too that animals used our roads long before motorised vehicles ever did.
In the case quoted by the OP, he says that the horse was clearly disturbed by the vehicles in the first place and that is why his relative stopped. It is fair to say that he would have been far more sensible to have remained stationary until the horses were past him before he started to creep forward. It is likely that the motion of the car, even slowly, upset the horse again, and this was easy enough to predict from its previous behaviour.
Animals do have the right to use the roads and motorists should be prepared to make due allowances for them.
Les
In the case quoted by the OP, he says that the horse was clearly disturbed by the vehicles in the first place and that is why his relative stopped. It is fair to say that he would have been far more sensible to have remained stationary until the horses were past him before he started to creep forward. It is likely that the motion of the car, even slowly, upset the horse again, and this was easy enough to predict from its previous behaviour.
Animals do have the right to use the roads and motorists should be prepared to make due allowances for them.
Les
13 December 2008, 10:39 AM
#36
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In this position I would have done what Leslie has stated.
I had an bad experience with a horse whilst I was learning to drive, inexperience on a private road led to the horse rearing up near my car due to a loud exhaust.
From that day on I treat every horse I see as a deranged out of control wild animal, and give it wide berth and let the buggers through.
I had an bad experience with a horse whilst I was learning to drive, inexperience on a private road led to the horse rearing up near my car due to a loud exhaust.
From that day on I treat every horse I see as a deranged out of control wild animal, and give it wide berth and let the buggers through.
13 December 2008, 05:39 PM
#39
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I agree with Bubba's post, it is really important that vehicles give animals all the room that they can for the obvious reason that you cannot guarantee what an animal is thinking. It is worth remembering too that animals used our roads long before motorised vehicles ever did.
Les
Les
The argument some riders use that they pay tax for their cars doesn't stand up as if you own 3 cars you pay tax for each car not one disc you can swap between cars as you use them.
Animals may have used the roads long before motorised vehicles did, but the roads have changed considerably in that time!
As you point out animals have the right to use the roads, but do the animals really WANT to use the roads or is it the riders making them do it? I'm sure if the animal could have an opinion it would be happy to stay in fields or bridal ways.
13 December 2008, 05:48 PM
#40
Horses on the road...........one of my pet hates!!! They should be either in a field or in a horsebox not on the road. My other pet hate are those cyclists who dress up in tight pants and ride around in packs slowing the normal flow of traffic, get into single file and I don't have a problem.
As for the horse, the owner is being an ****, they were offered courtesy and your dad seems to have made a safe overtake but they couldn't control the animal.
I will speak to my uncle, he saw a horse hit by a motorcycle, horse was slightly injured but it was the riders fault, the motorcyclists were badly injured.
I am in that general area and I see a lot of horses, the ones near my in laws are a pain, ancient lumbering lorries driven a 1 mph, dragging the animals across the roads unlit at night and I got real evils off one when I came around the corner and she was sat there in the middle of the road
Last edited by J4CKO; 13 December 2008 at 05:49 PM.
13 December 2008, 07:19 PM
#41
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Yes, I am a cyclist and agree, it really p1sses me off when you have a gang of ignorant roadies gabbing, swigging from their bottles and ignoring the massive queue of cars behind them, I dont hold people up if I can help it on my bike as I dont like it done to me in the car, I only hold cars up if its a safety issue for me.
As for the horse, the owner is being an ****, they were offered courtesy and your dad seems to have made a safe overtake but they couldn't control the animal.
I will speak to my uncle, he saw a horse hit by a motorcycle, horse was slightly injured but it was the riders fault, the motorcyclists were badly injured.
I am in that general area and I see a lot of horses, the ones near my in laws are a pain, ancient lumbering lorries driven a 1 mph, dragging the animals across the roads unlit at night and I got real evils off one when I came around the corner and she was sat there in the middle of the road
As for the horse, the owner is being an ****, they were offered courtesy and your dad seems to have made a safe overtake but they couldn't control the animal.
I will speak to my uncle, he saw a horse hit by a motorcycle, horse was slightly injured but it was the riders fault, the motorcyclists were badly injured.
I am in that general area and I see a lot of horses, the ones near my in laws are a pain, ancient lumbering lorries driven a 1 mph, dragging the animals across the roads unlit at night and I got real evils off one when I came around the corner and she was sat there in the middle of the road
13 December 2008, 07:25 PM
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13 December 2008, 08:02 PM
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Just to clarify, the horses were approaching our cars. It was a 30 zone and we soon slowed to a halt when the horse was all over the road ahead of us. The rider regained control and brought the horse over to her side of the verge. We then approached at walking speed when the horse reared and reversed into my dads car. The rider said the horse was spooked by "something in a garden".
Steve
PS I remember that Stampede thread from first time around. My turn of phrases is not on a par with Mr. Landings
Steve
PS I remember that Stampede thread from first time around. My turn of phrases is not on a par with Mr. Landings
15 December 2008, 02:52 AM
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HORSES = BURGERS
RIDERS = TNUCS
ROADS = CARS (do horse's pay road tax for crapping all over our roads ? do they **** !! )
RIDERS = TNUCS
ROADS = CARS (do horse's pay road tax for crapping all over our roads ? do they **** !! )
Last edited by abbott; 15 December 2008 at 02:54 AM.
15 December 2008, 10:55 AM
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I agree with Bubba's post, it is really important that vehicles give animals all the room that they can for the obvious reason that you cannot guarantee what an animal is thinking. It is worth remembering too that animals used our roads long before motorised vehicles ever did.
In the case quoted by the OP, he says that the horse was clearly disturbed by the vehicles in the first place and that is why his relative stopped. It is fair to say that he would have been far more sensible to have remained stationary until the horses were past him before he started to creep forward. It is likely that the motion of the car, even slowly, upset the horse again, and this was easy enough to predict from its previous behaviour.
Animals do have the right to use the roads and motorists should be prepared to make due allowances for them.
Les
In the case quoted by the OP, he says that the horse was clearly disturbed by the vehicles in the first place and that is why his relative stopped. It is fair to say that he would have been far more sensible to have remained stationary until the horses were past him before he started to creep forward. It is likely that the motion of the car, even slowly, upset the horse again, and this was easy enough to predict from its previous behaviour.
Animals do have the right to use the roads and motorists should be prepared to make due allowances for them.
Les
Had you been standing there watching the incident then maybe you could say you were entitled to give us all an accurate rundown of what actually happened and to tell us all who was actually to blame!
I think it is most unwise to preach about it since you are not in a position to apportion blame in a completely fair manner.
Les
I think it is most unwise to preach about it since you are not in a position to apportion blame in a completely fair manner.
Les
15 December 2008, 12:02 PM
#51
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Whilst that may be the case I think it should be pointed out that Motorists pay taxes for their cars to use the roads, there is no such tax for horses, I personally think there should be, horses do cause damage to the roads, not to mention covering them in s***e. Dog owners are fined for not clearing up after their animals.
The argument some riders use that they pay tax for their cars doesn't stand up as if you own 3 cars you pay tax for each car not one disc you can swap between cars as you use them.
Animals may have used the roads long before motorised vehicles did, but the roads have changed considerably in that time!
As you point out animals have the right to use the roads, but do the animals really WANT to use the roads or is it the riders making them do it? I'm sure if the animal could have an opinion it would be happy to stay in fields or bridal ways.
The argument some riders use that they pay tax for their cars doesn't stand up as if you own 3 cars you pay tax for each car not one disc you can swap between cars as you use them.
Animals may have used the roads long before motorised vehicles did, but the roads have changed considerably in that time!
As you point out animals have the right to use the roads, but do the animals really WANT to use the roads or is it the riders making them do it? I'm sure if the animal could have an opinion it would be happy to stay in fields or bridal ways.
Whatever you say, animals have a perfect right to use the roads as they have had from time immemorial, and you are not so important that you can insist that they should not.
It is pure courtesy and good manners, should you understand those words, that motorists should have the patience to slow down for animals on the road in order not to cause them any distress. It is also a sensible action as far as the motorist himself is concerned.
It all comes down to thinking of someone else for once instead of just yourself when you consider it. That incidentally is the sort of attitude which does a lot to help the world go round in a seemly manner!
Les
15 December 2008, 12:03 PM
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15 December 2008, 12:07 PM
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15 December 2008, 12:34 PM
#54
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Some of the drivel being posted here about who should or shouldn't have access to roads is beyond ignorance...
If you ban horses, are you going to ban cyclists too? Neither pay road tax and both go slower than cars, so by your logic neither should be on the road.
If there's any way to avoid using a road, a rider always will. They know it's dangerous and it's no fun for either the rider or the horse.
On the subject of experience and control, are you always in control of your car? Have you never had a 'moment'? (P.S. if you just said 'no' - liar). Do cars NEVER go off the road? Oh wait, yes they do. A horse that is inexperienced or nervous has to learn road manners by going on the road. Before anyone goes off on one about that, think about where you did your driving lessons...
If you've ever gone around a bend and come up to a horse too quickly, who's fault is that? Would you'd rather it was a combine header in the middle of the road? Maybe a Matbro with fertiliser bags on the forks? Your wife/girlfriend trying to get their broken down car going? Think about it...
In response to the OP, the rider is at 'fault', not because they weren't in control, or should/shouldn't have been there, but because they thought they'd got the horse under control and indicated you to pass whilst they were still on the road.
This is wrong and is just down to experience. If the horse is that badly spooked the rider should have got onto the verge and pointed the horse to the hedge, or if unable to do so, dismounted and held the horse from the ground. Only then should you have been indicated to pass.
Alternatively, the rider should have requested you turn your engine off so the horse would calm down and could then pass. This takes longer and it's rare to find a motorist that considerate.
Either way, the rider is required to have public liability insurance to go on the road, and it WILL cover damage to your father's vehicle. The insurance company is being a pain, which is their obligation to do so, to avoid paying out.
Both my wife and I ride horses on the road. We also both have and drive scoobies on the road.
If you ban horses, are you going to ban cyclists too? Neither pay road tax and both go slower than cars, so by your logic neither should be on the road.
If there's any way to avoid using a road, a rider always will. They know it's dangerous and it's no fun for either the rider or the horse.
On the subject of experience and control, are you always in control of your car? Have you never had a 'moment'? (P.S. if you just said 'no' - liar). Do cars NEVER go off the road? Oh wait, yes they do. A horse that is inexperienced or nervous has to learn road manners by going on the road. Before anyone goes off on one about that, think about where you did your driving lessons...
If you've ever gone around a bend and come up to a horse too quickly, who's fault is that? Would you'd rather it was a combine header in the middle of the road? Maybe a Matbro with fertiliser bags on the forks? Your wife/girlfriend trying to get their broken down car going? Think about it...
In response to the OP, the rider is at 'fault', not because they weren't in control, or should/shouldn't have been there, but because they thought they'd got the horse under control and indicated you to pass whilst they were still on the road.
This is wrong and is just down to experience. If the horse is that badly spooked the rider should have got onto the verge and pointed the horse to the hedge, or if unable to do so, dismounted and held the horse from the ground. Only then should you have been indicated to pass.
Alternatively, the rider should have requested you turn your engine off so the horse would calm down and could then pass. This takes longer and it's rare to find a motorist that considerate.
Either way, the rider is required to have public liability insurance to go on the road, and it WILL cover damage to your father's vehicle. The insurance company is being a pain, which is their obligation to do so, to avoid paying out.
Both my wife and I ride horses on the road. We also both have and drive scoobies on the road.
15 December 2008, 01:25 PM
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15 December 2008, 04:23 PM
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On the subject of experience and control, are you always in control of your car? Have you never had a 'moment'? (P.S. if you just said 'no' - liar). Do cars NEVER go off the road? Oh wait, yes they do. A horse that is inexperienced or nervous has to learn road manners by going on the road. Before anyone goes off on one about that, think about where you did your driving lessons...
When you learn to drive you have red 'L's on your car to warn other road users that you are inexperienced, although admittedly it is no deterent to inconsiderate road users. Horses don't have this requirement so do we have to assume all horses and riders are inexperienced? In this case I think the driver in question was quite considerate.
No matter what you say there is always a counter arguement.
My biggest grumbles are horses and cyclists that ride 3/4/5 abreast on the roads. PITA if you ask me. Also as a cyclist, the manure inconsiderately discarded and left always ends up near the kerb where I cycle so in wet weather me, my bike and my kit always stink as it sprays up.
15 December 2008, 05:02 PM
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Regarding the fault, I'd already made this clear so no need to reiterate that one.
What you're saying is in summary, you have a problem with inconsiderate road users. I think we can all agree on that
The OP's problem though was with a horse that other than a spook, was behaving as expected, without provocation by its rider. Which is a bit different to some chav hooning around the lanes in some clapped out shed with neons on the bonnet.
Whilst on the subject of in/considerate road users, most cars and nearly every motorbike are very considerate, even stopping and turning their engines off.
The bikers probably understand the situation a rider is in better due to also not being in a protective metal box. Strangely enough, that logic doesn't extend to cyclists, who think that just because they're quiet, coming up behind and passing a horse at 20mph is perfectly acceptable.
Well it's about as acceptable as their silly pointy helmets and as pointless as the them wearing lycra because it reduces wind resistance when they're actually cycling to the pub for pie and chips! It's guaranteed to make a horse spook.
As for muck on the road getting on your kit, would you like a man with a red flag to follow all cars and trucks washing the oil, fuel and rubber deposits up for you as well?
What you're saying is in summary, you have a problem with inconsiderate road users. I think we can all agree on that
The OP's problem though was with a horse that other than a spook, was behaving as expected, without provocation by its rider. Which is a bit different to some chav hooning around the lanes in some clapped out shed with neons on the bonnet.
Whilst on the subject of in/considerate road users, most cars and nearly every motorbike are very considerate, even stopping and turning their engines off.
The bikers probably understand the situation a rider is in better due to also not being in a protective metal box. Strangely enough, that logic doesn't extend to cyclists, who think that just because they're quiet, coming up behind and passing a horse at 20mph is perfectly acceptable.
Well it's about as acceptable as their silly pointy helmets and as pointless as the them wearing lycra because it reduces wind resistance when they're actually cycling to the pub for pie and chips! It's guaranteed to make a horse spook. As for muck on the road getting on your kit, would you like a man with a red flag to follow all cars and trucks washing the oil, fuel and rubber deposits up for you as well?