Israel : Step too far?
01 January 2009, 06:15 PM
#271
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Why should the Palestinians leave ? they have already been exiled from most of their land by evil zionists. Its ironic that most of the early leaders of Israel were former terrorsts who murderd innocent people and yet Israel complains about terrorism. A decent nuke droped on tel a viv seems the only viable solution as Israel will only ever expand and invade further they have never had any intention of withdrawing anywhere they only want to expand more and if that invloves killing Palestinians they don't rally care. Hopefully a Nuclear Iran can bring some more balance to the area.
01 January 2009, 06:24 PM
#272
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Why should the Palestinians leave ? they have already been exiled from most of their land by evil zionists. Its ironic that most of the early leaders of Israel were former terrorsts who murderd innocent people and yet Israel complains about terrorism. A decent nuke droped on tel a viv seems the only viable solution as Israel will only ever expand and invade further they have never had any intention of withdrawing anywhere they only want to expand more and if that invloves killing Palestinians they don't rally care. Hopefully a Nuclear Iran can bring some more balance to the area.
01 January 2009, 06:29 PM
#273
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I think i made this point in an earlier post and mentioned the irony of it
also -- Gaza reminds me somewhat of the Warsaw Ghetto created by the *****.
it always makes me cringe when I here left wing Jewish liberals defend the actions of fully armed soldiers when they shoot little boys and girls with high powered sniper rifles
also -- Gaza reminds me somewhat of the Warsaw Ghetto created by the *****.
it always makes me cringe when I here left wing Jewish liberals defend the actions of fully armed soldiers when they shoot little boys and girls with high powered sniper rifles
I do get real tired of hearing the Jewish side of things and how it is them who are always the victims - it seems to me both sides are hurt and know how to inflict pain and death on each other.
The point is that it needs to be sorted out once and for all and by someone who both sides respect and listen to and that seems to be a real big problem.
I find the images of dead people, especially children hard to watch or get out of my head, each side has similar pictures and stories and both sides need too stop the killing and sort this out - without any more lives being taken.
Oh and for some balance i am not pro-Arab as such - the rest of the Arab world gives quite generously to Palestine in the form of aid, supplies and money so it is not just the Jews who get aid from another country. both sides have suporter and perhaps both sides suporters should be applying pressure - serious pressure!
interesing read here
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Diplomacy takes back seat
Last edited by The Zohan; 01 January 2009 at 06:31 PM.
01 January 2009, 06:35 PM
#274
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Why should the Palestinians leave ? they have already been exiled from most of their land by evil zionists. Its ironic that most of the early leaders of Israel were former terrorsts who murderd innocent people and yet Israel complains about terrorism. A decent nuke droped on tel a viv seems the only viable solution as Israel will only ever expand and invade further they have never had any intention of withdrawing anywhere they only want to expand more and if that invloves killing Palestinians they don't rally care. Hopefully a Nuclear Iran can bring some more balance to the area.
The only thing that will be is the beginning of WW3 and the death on most of the worlds population - does not really seem like the best way forward...
oh and WTF is a 'decent nuke' - well made by people with the right morale fibre or more to do with size, quality and explosive force/power???
01 January 2009, 06:40 PM
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Why should the Palestinians leave ? they have already been exiled from most of their land by evil zionists. Its ironic that most of the early leaders of Israel were former terrorsts who murderd innocent people and yet Israel complains about terrorism. A decent nuke droped on tel a viv seems the only viable solution as Israel will only ever expand and invade further they have never had any intention of withdrawing anywhere they only want to expand more and if that invloves killing Palestinians they don't rally care. Hopefully a Nuclear Iran can bring some more balance to the area.
paul
the arab world helps palestine your right 100% but they only help it with food and some medicine.
but the americans help israel with everything i once read an article that israel was in serious debt to america. dont know how true that is.
also just want to point out that not all jews agree with what's going on in palestine. so not all jews are evil yes they have there ways where they dont like mixing with the western world and they look down at the rest of the world but hey that works fine for them i guess.
01 January 2009, 06:49 PM
#276
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some one yesterday sent me this tx.
as we sleep in our comfy beds and come in to the new year
1000 of palestinians go to bed not knowing if there house will be hit by a missile or not.
the least we can do for them in this difficult time is pray for them tonight and every night, ask god to protect them against there enemies and ask god to make them firm in there emaan. ameen
as we sleep in our comfy beds and come in to the new year
1000 of palestinians go to bed not knowing if there house will be hit by a missile or not.
the least we can do for them in this difficult time is pray for them tonight and every night, ask god to protect them against there enemies and ask god to make them firm in there emaan. ameen
01 January 2009, 06:49 PM
#277
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do you wana make the call to iran.lol i like the idea of more balance seems to sound very fair.
paul
the arab world helps palestine your right 100% but they only help it with food and some medicine.
but the americans help israel with everything i once read an article that israel was in serious debt to america. dont know how true that is.
also just want to point out that not all jews agree with what's going on in palestine. so not all jews are evil yes they have there ways where they dont like mixing with the western world and they look down at the rest of the world but hey that works fine for them i guess.
paul
the arab world helps palestine your right 100% but they only help it with food and some medicine.
but the americans help israel with everything i once read an article that israel was in serious debt to america. dont know how true that is.
also just want to point out that not all jews agree with what's going on in palestine. so not all jews are evil yes they have there ways where they dont like mixing with the western world and they look down at the rest of the world but hey that works fine for them i guess.
You are correct that Countries such as the Oil States, Jordan, and Iraq all support the palestinian people with medical and food supplies etc.
01 January 2009, 06:54 PM
#278
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also paul america also helped israel against lebanon.
every one makes out the hizballah and hammas are the bad guys, when you think about it would you get out of your bed one day and decide to blow up a train for no reason?? no you wouldn't. there is a reason for everything for every action there has to be a reaction simple.
jokes a side personally i would rather be peace in the world.
every one makes out the hizballah and hammas are the bad guys, when you think about it would you get out of your bed one day and decide to blow up a train for no reason?? no you wouldn't. there is a reason for everything for every action there has to be a reaction simple.
jokes a side personally i would rather be peace in the world.
01 January 2009, 06:58 PM
#279
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fair enough as i havent seen it for myself this is based on what i hear on jazeera tv and the usual tabloids here.
even if the other countries help the militants whats the problem with that america helped bin laden and saddam once upon a time.
put it this way america has a rule for its self and a rule for the rest of the world agree??if you dont tell me why?
01 January 2009, 07:05 PM
#280
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Agree. But even the Bush Administration are made to look completely compus-mentus by that nutter Ahmadinejad.
Iran has openly stated that when it attains Nuclear weapons, it intends to "remove Israel from the map".
As far as i'm aware, Israel has done nothing of the kind - And it already has Nuclear weapons. Courtesy to the yanks.
Iran has openly stated that when it attains Nuclear weapons, it intends to "remove Israel from the map".
As far as i'm aware, Israel has done nothing of the kind - And it already has Nuclear weapons. Courtesy to the yanks.
01 January 2009, 07:11 PM
#281
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iran is one big nation and they all stick together its not like iraq or lebanon where they are segregated. iran has 90% shiat and to be frank i wouldnt want to mess with them.
its a shame U.N cant do nothing about the situation, america will always have the final say until something happens to them russia or china would be intrseting
its a shame U.N cant do nothing about the situation, america will always have the final say until something happens to them russia or china would be intrseting
01 January 2009, 07:16 PM
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Also remember, you have a fully equipped military fighting civilians.
Yes even the terrorists are poorly equipped civilians and what I don't like is the result of this aggression. Rather than try to put an end to attacks on Israel this will simply fuel the fire for further attacks as these armed civilians, factions and terrorists are pushed into a corner they will retaliate with hate in the form of suicide bombings and rocket attacks.
How far does Israel intend to go with their phrase "Until the rocket attacks cease and Hamas are no more"? Looking at it as it is, the only way would be to wipe out all of Gaza and every palestinian.
Its interesting to see how 'dehumanised' the Palestinians are in the media when you read 4 deaths on the Israeli side and 400 or so on the Palestinian side, when an Israeli is attacked or killed you find out their name and history but you hear nothing about the women, children and elderly being killed.
Are 4 Israeli lives worth 400 Palestinian deaths?
Israel have a right to defend themselves but not in a disproportionate manner, if they were fighting an equally eqipped army I could understand - all they are doing is making themselves look the aggressor and creating more resentment and hate in the future.
Yes even the terrorists are poorly equipped civilians and what I don't like is the result of this aggression. Rather than try to put an end to attacks on Israel this will simply fuel the fire for further attacks as these armed civilians, factions and terrorists are pushed into a corner they will retaliate with hate in the form of suicide bombings and rocket attacks.
How far does Israel intend to go with their phrase "Until the rocket attacks cease and Hamas are no more"? Looking at it as it is, the only way would be to wipe out all of Gaza and every palestinian.
Its interesting to see how 'dehumanised' the Palestinians are in the media when you read 4 deaths on the Israeli side and 400 or so on the Palestinian side, when an Israeli is attacked or killed you find out their name and history but you hear nothing about the women, children and elderly being killed.
Are 4 Israeli lives worth 400 Palestinian deaths?
Israel have a right to defend themselves but not in a disproportionate manner, if they were fighting an equally eqipped army I could understand - all they are doing is making themselves look the aggressor and creating more resentment and hate in the future.
Last edited by finalzero; 01 January 2009 at 07:17 PM.
01 January 2009, 07:20 PM
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Most Iranians are Shiah Muslims, an off-shoot of the mainstream muslim religion and are considered by the rest of the world as hardlined, aggressive and violent in some cases.
I think it would be a never ending nightmare if any kind of war kicked off with those nutters as they most likely would use heavy duty weapons... and that is a scary thought.
01 January 2009, 07:24 PM
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big al it aint bad news for us, it will only be bad news if we get involved the war, me personally i wouldnt want my tax money wasted on that.
01 January 2009, 09:28 PM
#287
Oh I don't know Al. Remember when the US started going on about attacking North Korea? North Korea retorted with something along the lines of they would launch a pre emptive strike if they had to. Bush soon crawled back under his stone. Thank God he is no longer in charge. Perhaps with Obama at the helm we'll see a little more diplomacy and reason.
01 January 2009, 09:32 PM
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Oh I don't know Al. Remember when the US started going on about attacking North Korea? North Korea retorted with something along the lines of they would launch a pre emptive strike if they had to. Bush soon crawled back under his stone. Thank God he is no longer in charge. Perhaps with Obama at the helm we'll see a little more diplomacy and reason.
01 January 2009, 10:42 PM
#289
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The Zionist movement is the route cause to all the problems in Palestine.
YouTube - Israeli Jewish man says Zionism is the cause of the problems
Many orthodox Jews fight regulary against Zionist Jews and protest against what is happening to the Palestinians. There are many videos on you tube which show such confrontations and protests. A large march is taking place tomorrow in Manchester, a protest against the masacre in Palestine. I will be going to show my support with two of my good friends both of whom are Orthodox Jews.
Peace to all
YouTube - Israeli Jewish man says Zionism is the cause of the problems
Many orthodox Jews fight regulary against Zionist Jews and protest against what is happening to the Palestinians. There are many videos on you tube which show such confrontations and protests. A large march is taking place tomorrow in Manchester, a protest against the masacre in Palestine. I will be going to show my support with two of my good friends both of whom are Orthodox Jews.
Peace to all
01 January 2009, 11:56 PM
#290
I am reading this with interest between people who clearly favour the Israeli's and those who clearly detest them........
To be honest, I do not care who lives there as long as they shut the f*ck up and stop bitching one way or the other.......
Regarding Luan Pra I'll bang your Mam comments..... Iran will not become nuclear, Israel would never, ever allow it........ and if they did become nuclear, then I would be worried......
To be honest, I do not care who lives there as long as they shut the f*ck up and stop bitching one way or the other.......
Regarding Luan Pra I'll bang your Mam comments..... Iran will not become nuclear, Israel would never, ever allow it........ and if they did become nuclear, then I would be worried......
02 January 2009, 02:01 AM
#292
Actually, the comment made was that the "US" armed the IRA, not the US Government. So in actual fact the claim made was true. Oddly enough, Hamas is largely funded by the private money of Palestinians, so in that respect its exactly the same situation; except of course, the Palestinians supporting Hamas are under the threat of Israeli tanks, strike aircraft, and artillery attack every day - were the Americans throwing dollars into the tins of NORAID are just romantics with dubious claims to Irish heritage who've read too many copies of An Phoblacht, happily buying guns, explosives and bullets to not only kill British Soldiers, but to blow up shopping centres full of families on Saturday afternoons. In addition - you can look at anyones figures and see the IRA killed many more people in N Ireland than the British Army, RUC and PSNI combined; yet numerous American Congressmen cried foul whenever we dealt with a PIRA ASU in a kinetic manner; a statistic Israel most certainly could not be compared against during any counter-terrorist activity against either Hezbollah, Hamas, or Fatah in the days they were a little more militant than now.
Be careful when talking to British service persons about anything regarding "terrorists" when you're here. We happen to have long memories and remember where the money came from that meant we had to crawl on the floor to check the bottoms of our cars when they were parked in public; why we were never seen in public in uniform for years; why we had to change our routes in and out of work every day. And this strength of opinion is from someone who served in NI when it was a bit better.
And before I get called a leftie liberal peacenik whatever... I'm currently at over 10 years service in the British Army, having done a two year tour of NI, two tours of Iraq, and by the end of 09, two tours in Afghanistan.
I don't see many here condoning random attacks against Israeli civilians - but considering how the Palestinians have been treated for the last 60 years its hard not to have sympathy for their plight; indiscriminate attacks against targets without any consideration with regards to collateral damage are utterly UNACCEPTABLE. If you wouldn't walk in there with a machine gun and kill those people and consider it "acceptable", dropping laser guided bombs on them isn't ****ing right either. Due to my profession I'm likely to be accepting of more civilian causalities during military operations than most, simply because I'm aware of the processes that are involved in planning and conducting a strike and how the value of the target compares against the possible level of civilian deaths/infrastructure damage - but from what I can tell, the IDF are just throwing explosives at anything they can remotely classify as being Hamas - even those "Government" locations that are responsible for solely public services and humanitarian aid. They might as well show their true colours and blow up the hospitals while they're at it.
By the way, by way of small geographical and political point, Hezbollah are in fact Lebanese, and not Palestinian, and have nothing to do with this little spat.
Be careful when talking to British service persons about anything regarding "terrorists" when you're here. We happen to have long memories and remember where the money came from that meant we had to crawl on the floor to check the bottoms of our cars when they were parked in public; why we were never seen in public in uniform for years; why we had to change our routes in and out of work every day. And this strength of opinion is from someone who served in NI when it was a bit better.
And before I get called a leftie liberal peacenik whatever... I'm currently at over 10 years service in the British Army, having done a two year tour of NI, two tours of Iraq, and by the end of 09, two tours in Afghanistan.
I don't see many here condoning random attacks against Israeli civilians - but considering how the Palestinians have been treated for the last 60 years its hard not to have sympathy for their plight; indiscriminate attacks against targets without any consideration with regards to collateral damage are utterly UNACCEPTABLE. If you wouldn't walk in there with a machine gun and kill those people and consider it "acceptable", dropping laser guided bombs on them isn't ****ing right either. Due to my profession I'm likely to be accepting of more civilian causalities during military operations than most, simply because I'm aware of the processes that are involved in planning and conducting a strike and how the value of the target compares against the possible level of civilian deaths/infrastructure damage - but from what I can tell, the IDF are just throwing explosives at anything they can remotely classify as being Hamas - even those "Government" locations that are responsible for solely public services and humanitarian aid. They might as well show their true colours and blow up the hospitals while they're at it.
By the way, by way of small geographical and political point, Hezbollah are in fact Lebanese, and not Palestinian, and have nothing to do with this little spat.
Few tours of various places under my own belt too, ex lance jack 42 cdo
02 January 2009, 08:39 AM
#293
lol
02 January 2009, 11:06 AM
#294
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Pretty much every Israeli prime minister eventually comes to the conclusion that the heavy handed confrontational route is wrong
The tragedy is the Yitzhak Rabin, who was a very well respected leader (political and importantly military) – fought in all the wars throughout the 50,s 60,s and 70,s – and thus carried tremendous kudos and respect, came to the conclusion that far reaching concessions had to be made to the Palestinians
He came to power as a very much a hard liner – but the realities made him see the course Israel was on was the wrong one –
But alas – he was assassinated, not by Hamas etc but by hard line Jews who see the conflict in totally biblical terms
The worry is, like Bush and Bliar Israel seems to have leaders all to willing to sacrifice other peoples blood – to satisfy some inner craving of theirs
The tragedy is the Yitzhak Rabin, who was a very well respected leader (political and importantly military) – fought in all the wars throughout the 50,s 60,s and 70,s – and thus carried tremendous kudos and respect, came to the conclusion that far reaching concessions had to be made to the Palestinians
He came to power as a very much a hard liner – but the realities made him see the course Israel was on was the wrong one –
But alas – he was assassinated, not by Hamas etc but by hard line Jews who see the conflict in totally biblical terms
The worry is, like Bush and Bliar Israel seems to have leaders all to willing to sacrifice other peoples blood – to satisfy some inner craving of theirs
02 January 2009, 11:37 AM
#295
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Pretty much every Israeli prime minister eventually comes to the conclusion that the heavy handed confrontational route is wrong
The tragedy is the Yitzhak Rabin, who was a very well respected leader (political and importantly military) – fought in all the wars throughout the 50,s 60,s and 70,s – and thus carried tremendous kudos and respect, came to the conclusion that far reaching concessions had to be made to the Palestinians
He came to power as a very much a hard liner – but the realities made him see the course Israel was on was the wrong one –
But alas – he was assassinated, not by Hamas etc but by hard line Jews who see the conflict in totally biblical terms
The worry is, like Bush and Bliar Israel seems to have leaders all to willing to sacrifice other peoples blood – to satisfy some inner craving of theirs
The tragedy is the Yitzhak Rabin, who was a very well respected leader (political and importantly military) – fought in all the wars throughout the 50,s 60,s and 70,s – and thus carried tremendous kudos and respect, came to the conclusion that far reaching concessions had to be made to the Palestinians
He came to power as a very much a hard liner – but the realities made him see the course Israel was on was the wrong one –
But alas – he was assassinated, not by Hamas etc but by hard line Jews who see the conflict in totally biblical terms
The worry is, like Bush and Bliar Israel seems to have leaders all to willing to sacrifice other peoples blood – to satisfy some inner craving of theirs
02 January 2009, 03:08 PM
#296
Pretty much every Israeli prime minister eventually comes to the conclusion that the heavy handed confrontational route is wrong
The tragedy is the Yitzhak Rabin, who was a very well respected leader (political and importantly military) – fought in all the wars throughout the 50,s 60,s and 70,s – and thus carried tremendous kudos and respect, came to the conclusion that far reaching concessions had to be made to the Palestinians
He came to power as a very much a hard liner – but the realities made him see the course Israel was on was the wrong one –
But alas – he was assassinated, not by Hamas etc but by hard line Jews who see the conflict in totally biblical terms
The worry is, like Bush and Bliar Israel seems to have leaders all to willing to sacrifice other peoples blood – to satisfy some inner craving of theirs
The tragedy is the Yitzhak Rabin, who was a very well respected leader (political and importantly military) – fought in all the wars throughout the 50,s 60,s and 70,s – and thus carried tremendous kudos and respect, came to the conclusion that far reaching concessions had to be made to the Palestinians
He came to power as a very much a hard liner – but the realities made him see the course Israel was on was the wrong one –
But alas – he was assassinated, not by Hamas etc but by hard line Jews who see the conflict in totally biblical terms
The worry is, like Bush and Bliar Israel seems to have leaders all to willing to sacrifice other peoples blood – to satisfy some inner craving of theirs
It is maybe easier said than done to make deals/concessions with the Palestinians at the moment - especially when the West bank is run by the secular Fatah and Gaza by Hamas.
If the Palestinians can't speak with a united voice - they are basically f*cked as far as I can see.
03 January 2009, 11:22 AM
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Why should the Palestinians leave ? they have already been exiled from most of their land by evil zionists. Its ironic that most of the early leaders of Israel were former terrorsts who murderd innocent people and yet Israel complains about terrorism. A decent nuke droped on tel a viv seems the only viable solution as Israel will only ever expand and invade further they have never had any intention of withdrawing anywhere they only want to expand more and if that invloves killing Palestinians they don't rally care. Hopefully a Nuclear Iran can bring some more balance to the area.
Does anyone think it might help the situation, which is very bad, if Hamas stopped firing rockets into Israel just for something to do?
Les
03 January 2009, 12:02 PM
#298
If they are happy to keep the conflict going, I don't know why all these trendy lefties a making all these protests from afar.
Since half the leadership are ensconced in Damascus - it may be unrealistic to expect an immediate ceasefire.
03 January 2009, 02:46 PM
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Heres a youtube video that I think is fitting (no not Ken Cockblock):
YouTube - Israel Attacks Gaza, Silence from Mainstream Media about Israeli Violations of International Law
Raises some questions.
YouTube - Israel Attacks Gaza, Silence from Mainstream Media about Israeli Violations of International Law
Raises some questions.
