jacrobat

They also have a pretty big defence industry themselves and it is always good to go to a customer and say 'Yes this has been tested properly in combat situations'

PeteBrant

Indeed, and so does Israel. 'cept Britian has signed up to international agreements on their useage and development. Israel hasn't.
*****.

Paul3446

If all the Arab countries left Israel alone, would Israel go out and attack anyone?

Of course the answer is no. Therefore the resolution to this problem is to leave Israel in peace and the problem is solved.

If only I was a Middle East peace envoy, like Tony Blair.

Incidentally, has anyone seen Blair since this trouble started?

morpheus1870

First point: What a ridiculous theory. You are basically saying that because of the ****'s treatment the Israeli's should not be blamed for carrying out illegal acts of terrorism through the use of Air, Land and Sea forces against a country who's military capability is so $hit that even when its short range rockets do land they cause minimum damage. There is absolutely no justification for the killing of innocent people in such a disproportionate way.

Second Point: Israel claims that it 'withdrew' from Gaza three years ago. That is simply not true. Israelis simply replaced one form of occupation with another. Israelis merely replaced physical occupation with an external siege. Gaza is under siege in the air, on land and at seas. Israel has been trying mass starvation to starve the Gazans into submission. The policy has been a complete failure.

Now Israel is trying mass terror bombings to subdue the civilian population. What's next? Gas chambers? Gas chambers are the only one of the Third Reich's evil weapons that the Israelis have avoided. To date. Will the Israelis succeed in making Gazans abandon Hamas? Mass murders have never succeeded in changing civilian attitudes. Israeli bomber pilots are nothing but recruiting agents for Hamas, Hizballah and Al Qaeda. Osama is laughing his arese off.

Today we saw a farther on Al Jazeera holding the dead bodies of 3 children. He pointed out in clear view the entry holes of bullets in their chests, showing and proving that armed snipers and soldiers are targeting children also and shooting them on site.

There is absolutely nothing that can condone this pal, nothing at all.

Peace

morpheus1870

Just because you havn't heard of him doesn't make him any less of an expert

morpheus1870

The answer is not to leave the Israeli's in peace but for them to give back every piece of land they ever took from the Palestinians, compensate them for the 60 or so years of occupation, murder and oppression (how you can compensate them for this is anyone’s guess), its leaders be put on trial for war crimes against humanity and be brought to justice under international law and allow the free movement of Palestinian people through out Jerusalem and the middle east.

...wishful thinking I know.

Do remember everyone that half the population of Gaza are children under 16. When indiscriminate bombing is conducted, it is obvious that half the casualties, dead and wounded, will be children. That is terrorism against helpless children and an unarmed civilian population, all courtesy of taxpayer-subsidised weapons from the United States....cheers Bushy!

mrtheedge2u2

Morpheus... are you Palestinean or have it in the family?

morpheus1870

No pal I'm British

Please note I do not support Hamas and it's ideals? Not on your life. I have no love for that group. But I am aware and wish other people were willing to admit the truth: Hamas was created by the Israelis as a counterweight to the PLO. Israel created Hamas and is now being consumed by his own creation.

mrtheedge2u2

UK gave Israel to the Israeli's.... so why do we not pay for the 60 years?

Bonehead

I think you'll find it was the UN that gave Israel to the Israelis.

finalzero

Occupation 101 :: Official Site

Recommend watching the movie, not sure how long the site will be up but lets hope long enough for people to take a look.

You know the truth has a way of showing itself eventually regardless of how many lies are thrown about to conceal it...

Take a look at the solidarity being shown around the globe, not just the UK, around the world, from people of different races and religions, all who see the unjust violence being perpitrated against innocent civilians (the majority of whom are Palestinians and Children).

That is the truth so no matter what BS the psychopathically disjointed and murderous puppeteers in Israel feed into the mass media, humanity for the sake of humanity shows the truth when innocent children are deliberately targeted.

Israel has a track record of intentionally targetting UN outfits (Lebonon if anyone forgot) so for them to then go on the air and either deny an event or try to come up with an argument about being fired upon is an outright lie.

Even CNN is now starting to question who actually broke the ceasefire and has shown some interesting arguments that point the finger squarely on Israel.

The reality is that this campaign will not stop until it has destabilised the middle-east (for future conflicts), crippled the Palestinians to such a degree that they are no longer able to survive on the land they inhabit and either wipe out the mass majority of Palestinians as a result of the aggression and it's resulting carnage or force the people who are still alive to leave and seek refuge in neighbouring countries.

cster

Good objective post.
Perhaps your byline shoud read
Making nations is exciting... but it leaves many dead bodies

cster

I think you'll find that they just took it!
The Brits did try to stop them migrating there after WW2, but by what right - apart from the fact that God is an Englishman!
Anyway, none of that helps now, does it?

cster

So if a mother and father have a child, and the child grows up and kills them - it is OK?
Some of the posts on this thread are leading me to wonder if Sacha Baron Cohen drives a Scooby

cster

Pedantic, socialist and imperialist to boot!
Quite the chameleon

mrtheedge2u2

Was just reading the news about rockets from Lebanon entering Israel and the thought it could spill over and it got me wondering.....

Not including A-bombs, are Israel using big weaponary or is it still pretty much smaller stuff? I mean, could Israel say 'enough of this fire-cracker ****, times for the big toys'??

Geezer

They could, but I don't think a) the Israelis are that stupid b) The US would let them. They had to be restrained in the first Gulf War, but the US talked them out of it.

Geezer

Leslie

Well F1, I thought that Hamas was elected by the Palestinians. I am sure that many Palestinians would much prefer not to be in a war situation, but the avowed ambition of Hamas and the rest of the Palesrine government is surely to drive Israel into the sea. What would you advocate when dealing with an implacable enemy like that? What should Israel do instead then?

We did move into N Ireland with a military force though! I remember that well enough.

Les

finalzero

There are reports of patients coming into the the Palestinian hospitals with burns that can only be caused by phospherous powder as a result of certain weapons deemed illegal.

Israel is probably itching to use heavy weaponary but probably can't due to the cross contamination into Israel.

Speaking of hospitals it seems Israel now deem one of the largest hospitals a potential target because quote 'the bad guy is hiding in there'... amazing, thats the justification for even more aggression and deliberate targeting of a humanitarian building which they know will cripple and almost destroy the Palestinian people.

Its also a densly populated area so Israel knows they are dealing with fighters who are dispersed in the wider civilian population (whether terrorists or just civilians retaliating).

"The world has already ended, we are just watching the TV show now"

Mus

iTrader: (2)

http://palestinechronicle.com/upload..._palestine.jpg

for the ones that made up there mind before researching, imagine that was the uk what would you do?

the israiles wont let in humantarians any where near gaza when they do they kill them, so now no one wants to take food in to there. also not letting in reporters even after the un said it was ok they dont give a crap as they dont have to answer for nothing. they know there zionist within the american government or should i say the american government is run by zionist and they networking simple

take your hats of to the zionist.

PAUL 3446 I suggest you start watching al jazeera news to see whats really going on. cause by the looks of it you just picked a side with out even looking into the matter.

peace

morpheus1870

Read my other posts first pal.

Some of the posts on this thread lead me to wonder if people even read things properly before they ask questions

morpheus1870

White phosphorus is being used as are Depleated Uraninum (DU) shells similar to what the Americans used in the first Gulf War.

The aim is not peace but total erradication of the Palestinians and the capture of Gaza.

2 UN drivers were murdered today when their UN labelled vans came under Israeli fire, looks like they will be leaving the area due to safety concerns.

Bodies of children have been recovered with the imprint of tank tracks, looks like the Israelis are simplying rolling over the dead.

hodgy0_2

tbh I,ve stopped reading about it all

as a father of five beautiful children I find it all to distressing, nothing the Israelis do surprises me any more

what does -- as i mentioned in a previous post, is how presumably rational people defend it

Mus

iTrader: (2)

the zionist have gone way too far and hizballah are just alliance of hamas its like america and israel. i didnt hear any of you complain when america are bombing lebanon.???

cster

Just responding to the post quoted.
There seems to be a little guilding of the lilly going on here.
I think the case for the Palestinians can be quite easily made without resorting to the hyperbola that has characterised some of the posts so far made - hence the Borat/Jewish agent provocateur allusion.
Talk of an Israeli 4th Reich and Auschwitz comparisons are unnecessary and infantile IMO.
As I said before - keep your feet on the ground mate.

Luan Pra bang

Well they were leaving the zionists alone so the zionists then started to murder women and children to remove them from the land Israel wanted to take. Israel having murdered civillians from the middle east and Britan in terrorist attacks then decided to take more and more land until there was almost none left for the native people to live on so now they are pissed off.

Luan Pra bang

Actually palestinians elected Fatah but Israel did not like this so decided to forcibly remove them from power and new full well the only alternative was Hamas. Is it really surprising that a people who have had their families murdered been removed from land they have farmed for generations, been caged up abused starved and denied any right to live a close to normal life are a little bit pissed off ?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

As LPB says Hamas got elected thanks to Israel's earlier bright ideas for the Palestians. If you oppress a people as much as Israel do with the Palestinians then you should not be surprised when that people elect a terrorist organisation if that is all you have left them able to elect.

As for N.I Les as bad as some of the military operations were over there we never did anything even remotelyapproaching what Israel is doing in Gaza, nt even close and I hope you aren't implying that.

Leslie

Not sure why you think I was implying such a thing. I had a small part to play in those operations anyway.

I hate to see the killing of innocent people as much as anyone might and contrary to what another post insinuated above, I have never advocated war since I have said many times that I consider it to be obscene. It should be the very last option and should be a defensive measure. That is why I felt so strongly against our part in the Iraqi attacks.

My question was-what would you say that Israel should do in response to the continuous rocket attacks by Hamas, and what would you expect this country to do if such a situation occurred. Should we sit back and allow it to continue?

Les

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I didn't necessarily think you were implying that about N.I. - was just checking as you mentioned it in the context of this thread. No insinuation there. Sorry if you thought otherwise.

To try and answer your question simpy is not possible as the reason Hamas are directing attacks isn't simple either. However if we are making comparisons with the IRA let's stick to that and say that may be targetted attacks against those and only those firing the rockets would be a fair response much like the UK military tried to do with the IRA as opposed to the 'carpet bombing' approach Israel seems to enjoy so much.

Or how about getting round the negotiating table much like the UK government eventually did with Sinn Fein, but not just when it suits the Israelis. Of course it isn't that simple as there are many many entrenched issues involved over land and what has gone before coupled to the fact that the West is for the main pro-Isarel and anti-Arab and hence quite rightly the Palestinians feel any West backed peace initiative will always be in Israel's favour.

Let's not forget that Israel also really don't care about the Palestinian 'civilians' as they are not Jews and I am being generous about their sentiments there.