morpheus1870

The Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the West Bank, to the Gaza Strip, and to the entire City of Jerusalem, in order to protect the Palestinians living there. The Palestinian People living in this Palestinian Land are "protected persons" within the meaning of the Fourth Geneva Convention. All of their rights are sacred under international law.







Mr. Francis A. Boyle is a Professor in International Law

There really is no argument here people, what Israel is doing and what it has done is a crime. A crime against humanity and international law, FACT!

Lets not cover up this fact by saying that it's too late and that the Israelis are now there to stay for good, that may well be true, however if we acknowledge this then we must also acknowledge that Palestinians have a right to defend themselves, it's obvious we have a very one sided view in this country and on SN. It's a direct result of biased propaganda...again showing a similarity to that of the ****'s against the Jews.

nsld

Lol

And in 2006 the entire might of the Israeli army was stopped in its tracks by 250 Hizb'allah fighters in Southern Lebanon.

The modern approach to technical warfare doesnt work against a geurilla army, it didnt work in Vietnam and it doesnt work today.

Back in 1967 the Israelis would put men on the ground, but the public perception is that war is now fought at a distance so they dont send in the ground troops.

jasey

Wishful thinking .

morpheus1870

The Hizb'allah and Lebanon have been bombed and terrorised from the sky's by the enemeny miles away day after day, have had to hide and seek cover not being able to see or strike back at the terrorist enemy. Then eventually after waiting, after suffering, after building up anger and hatred for those who have killed their loved ones and destroyed their country, they got the chance to see the enemy face to face in real combat. They fought without fear.

The deffinition of war: The waging of armed conflict between competing entities. There is no competition between the might of the American funded Israeli army and the palestinians. How can people here on SN compare like for like? It's one sided, always has been and always will be.

As stated perviously, what Israel is doing and what it has done is a crime. A crime against humanity and international law, FACT!

unclebuck

Sadly the UK Government is in no position to criticise Israel, being an international criminal of similar stature.

nsld

The real problems in this conflict are rooted in the history of it.

Hamas was originally supported by Israel as an opponent to Yasser Arafat and the PLO (much like the US supplying OBL against the russians!)

Israel itself was borne from the actions of terrorists by the Haganah and the Irgun groups and plenty of British soldiers and civil servants where killed by them.

As for the "popularity" of hamas, in the elections they elicited over 70% of the public vote for the simple reason that they provide the healthcare, education and whatever else the people need whilst the likes of Fatah do nothing.

So we in the west say that we want democracy and in the free elections with a huge turnout the people elect the "terrorists" so the response of Israel and the west is non cooperation and the effective enclosure of Gaza. Basically the people are punished with no food or utilities for engaging in a democratic process.

Its little wonder Hamas have popular support when the people are so oppressed by the Israelis and Hamas is the only group willing or able to fight back. Starving and imprisoning the people of Gaza is not going to win the hearts and minds or diminish the support of Israel.

Neither side does itself any favours and its the civilians on both sides who will suffer whilst the extremists on both sides throw bombs and rockets at each other.

Mus

iTrader: (2)

very vaild points !!

cster

Try to keep your feet on the ground fella.

hodgy0_2

I think i made this point in an earlier post and mentioned the irony of it

also -- Gaza reminds me somewhat of the Warsaw Ghetto created by the *****.

it always makes me cringe when I here left wing Jewish liberals defend the actions of fully armed soldiers when they shoot little boys and girls with high powered sniper rifles

cster

The only crime against humanity is to lose a war.
Take Dresden and Hiroshima - no war crime there AFAIK.
The UN is a talking shop that people pay attention to when it suits them.
The diplomatic equivalent of a tabloid I guess.

morpheus1870

My feet are firmly on the ground pal.

cster

Keep your head moving then

asu

Thats the standard political crap they got to say to keep the far left happy in this country most americans, would like to see the middle east wiped off the face of the earth to be honest about it . Crap people wont even ride on planes with Arabs anymore .

Iseral just pound the crap out of them end this once and for all, I think the worlds politicians cater to a small minority that have a loud voice so they dont want to have any wanted attention, they cant say what they really think about the subject . Thier words thats all nothing more nothing less, they have no action behind them at all, Im sure that the US is filling thier order for more bullets at this moment .

asu

That is the biggest "BS" comment I have ever heard, how is the UK Goverment a international criminal . How tell me How !!! The problem is with left wing apologist such as your self .

Ive been on the ground with these people and they have no sense of your westren ideals of fair play and dont give a rats *** about if you live or die . No laws have been broken, I dont see British troops killing civilians for ****s and giggles . I dont see the RAF just randomly bombing buildings because they like to see crap blow up .

Israel has every right to defend itself against radical Islamic ***** that lob rockets into israel civilian sectors . The Israel Army doesent hide in civilian areas and than use those civilians has human shields . Israel should smash the living crap out of the west bank and leave it burning . The only thing the radical understands is the way of the gun, and untill you peacenicks understand that we will continue to be behind the 8 ball .

asu

So since they dont have the weapon capabilities of the Israel army and air force, its a crime . Last time I checked hizb allah was a military force that is pretty much a coward . I guess next time the British Army is up against a inferior force they should make sure thier opponets are equally well armed, get the hell out of here

nsld

Most Americans couldnt find the middle east on a large map with a big label and an arrow pointing at it.

The reason most americans wont fly with arabs is down to the fact that they are generally speaking an ill educated bunch of inbred racists with an over inflated level of self worth who actually believe the rubbish that is Fox news!

The irony is that America pours vast resources into Lebanon, Quatar and Saudi Arabia as a back up for the time when Israel does get wiped out so it still has a toe hold in the area.

And lets not forget that every time "driving season" kicks in your paying your hard earned dollars for "gas" made from oil from those self same arabs you loathe. Without them the US would be stuffed!

As for your comments about the british army facing terrorists and making sure they where well armed first, we wouldnt have to bother as recent history tells us just how much money, support, logistics, people and weapons the US sent to help those "heroic" irish "freedom fighters" so they could fight us.

The US also equipped the Taliban against the Russians in fact, the US has a long history of arming terrorists with dodgy beards. Osama Bin Laden, Gerry Adams, Rolf Harris et al

asu

Hmmmmmmmmmmm you sir are a ******* ! A racist and dont know crap about the United States of America . Your liberal spin is unreal, and stupid and concerning . You are uneducated to say the least . I hope you are not typical of the people on the island mis-informed, jealous and just spitefull

nsld

My father is American so I probably have a better than average shot of knowing what its like.

As for education, a couple of my post grad quals are from the US so again I have a more than average understanding of the situation.

Aside from your obvious inability to debate will you be denouncing your country for arming the Irish Terrorists or OBL?

nsld

"Israel should smash the living crap out of the west bank and leave it burning "


ASU your tactics wouldnt achieve much really as the rockets are being fired from the Gaza Strip which is under Hamas control and not the West Bank which is under the contol of Mohammed Abbas and Fatah. But then, why let geography get in the way of things!

As I said, most Americans couldnt find the Middle East on a well labelled map and you cant even find the right bit of Palestinian territory to bomb!

asu

First of all the United States Goverment never armed the IRA, that is private money from the Irish Catholic population in the US . And know you have no grasp on the situation at all .

You have made one false claim already and two claims out of context with no relevance of the situation at the time . The false claim I already clarified about the IRA . The Arming of Bin Laden was during the cold war when the United States couldnt directly face the Soviet Union without starting WW3, so they found rebels who only showed radical muslim views after the Soviets pulled out of Afganistan and most of the equipment is not there or servicable today . The bolstering of those middle east goverments is to provide stability in the region, Isreal is not going anywhere there would be US troops on the front lines before that happens and Isreal would most likely resort to using nuclear tactical weapons .

asu

West Bank or Gaza it does not matter the palestinians need to go ! Hmmm, my tactics would work fine they need to be swept out of the land and sent packing .

And I think I know exactly where Israel is since Ive visited the coutry several times in my life .

treehack

[QUOTE=asu;8387284]West Bank or Gaza it does not matter the palestinians need to go ! Hmmm, my tactics would work fine they need to be swept out of the land and sent packing .

QUOTE]

Err why do they need too go from what is THEIR home?

hodgy0_2

Muslims think that America and the west are waging a Holy War against them -- this is a very powerful metaphor in the Muslim world -- for more information just read up on the 1st and 2nd Crusades

and I can see their point when we have the comments from ASU above and the words from Sarah Palin herself -- who articulates a pretty large opinion in the states

"Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God" ---- mmmm sound pretty close to a holy war to me

cster

[QUOTE=treehack;8387373]Is that right?
I thought most of them were refugees from Israel

cster

Or rhetoric from a nobody desperate to get elected.
Good to see someone advocating a little research on the matter though.
Bloody Knights Templar!

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

Actually, the comment made was that the "US" armed the IRA, not the US Government. So in actual fact the claim made was true. Oddly enough, Hamas is largely funded by the private money of Palestinians, so in that respect its exactly the same situation; except of course, the Palestinians supporting Hamas are under the threat of Israeli tanks, strike aircraft, and artillery attack every day - were the Americans throwing dollars into the tins of NORAID are just romantics with dubious claims to Irish heritage who've read too many copies of An Phoblacht, happily buying guns, explosives and bullets to not only kill British Soldiers, but to blow up shopping centres full of families on Saturday afternoons. In addition - you can look at anyones figures and see the IRA killed many more people in N Ireland than the British Army, RUC and PSNI combined; yet numerous American Congressmen cried foul whenever we dealt with a PIRA ASU in a kinetic manner; a statistic Israel most certainly could not be compared against during any counter-terrorist activity against either Hezbollah, Hamas, or Fatah in the days they were a little more militant than now.

Be careful when talking to British service persons about anything regarding "terrorists" when you're here. We happen to have long memories and remember where the money came from that meant we had to crawl on the floor to check the bottoms of our cars when they were parked in public; why we were never seen in public in uniform for years; why we had to change our routes in and out of work every day. And this strength of opinion is from someone who served in NI when it was a bit better.

And before I get called a leftie liberal peacenik whatever... I'm currently at over 10 years service in the British Army, having done a two year tour of NI, two tours of Iraq, and by the end of 09, two tours in Afghanistan.

I don't see many here condoning random attacks against Israeli civilians - but considering how the Palestinians have been treated for the last 60 years its hard not to have sympathy for their plight; indiscriminate attacks against targets without any consideration with regards to collateral damage are utterly UNACCEPTABLE. If you wouldn't walk in there with a machine gun and kill those people and consider it "acceptable", dropping laser guided bombs on them isn't ****ing right either. Due to my profession I'm likely to be accepting of more civilian causalities during military operations than most, simply because I'm aware of the processes that are involved in planning and conducting a strike and how the value of the target compares against the possible level of civilian deaths/infrastructure damage - but from what I can tell, the IDF are just throwing explosives at anything they can remotely classify as being Hamas - even those "Government" locations that are responsible for solely public services and humanitarian aid. They might as well show their true colours and blow up the hospitals while they're at it.

By the way, by way of small geographical and political point, Hezbollah are in fact Lebanese, and not Palestinian, and have nothing to do with this little spat.

Paul3446

Very funny reading an American's take on foreign affairs and how confused they get with where other countries are!

I spent a few minutes trying to work out who Hizb Allah was!

Well done Prasius for providing some informed opinion on proceedings.

Any way I think the following sums it up rather nicely, apologies if anyone else has posted it, but I haven't trawled through 9 pages....

LOVING THIS, ADMIT ISRAEL AND HAMAS - The Daily Mash

Maz

iTrader: (34)

On the subject of the US supplying financial aid to the IRA, it reminded me of funny incident several years ago. A friend of mine was on holiday in the US. Sitting in a bar he noticed they were having a collection for the IRA in order to 'help' them rightfully claim what was 'theirs'. Being the stout Englishman that he was he declined to donate anything, instead asking if there was separate fund for the Native Americans to help them reclaim what is rightfully theirs. Suffice to say he was ejected forthwith. The US are past masters at seizing what doesn't belong to them. Let's not forget at the turn of the 1900s the Indians were still fighting to claim their homeland.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Rambo is alive and well.

nsld

I didnt say the US government did arm them! But now that you mention it plenty of your presidents and congressmen accepted the likes of Gerry Adams in as a "leader" and met with him.

The arming of Bin Laden was in response to the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and had little to do with the cold war aside from the thinking that if you tie up the Russians in there own Vietnam they wont be able to fight on other fronts.

As for the Israelis going Nuclear thats not an option within its own borders as the local populus will suffer, and if the other arab states join in then its a no no for the damage it would do to the oilfields!