fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Totally agree. M&S makes redundancies. Yesterday Morrisons announced they were going to create 10,000 new jobs (so that'll be on tills etc then similar jobs to those going). Did that make headline BBC news? No of course not.

Good news isn't news unfortunately otherwise item one of the day would be "60m people went to bed last night and woke up again perfectly ok"

5t.

JTaylor

They've said they're going to create 5000 jobs not 10000 and it was in Morrisons to create 5,000 new jobs | Business | guardian.co.uk and FT.com / Companies / UK companies - Morrisons to create 5,000 new jobs and U.K.'s William Morrison Supermarkets to Add 5,000 Jobs - WSJ.com

As a cynic, I'd suggest it was more than coincidental that Morrisons announced this 'good' news on the same day that Mr Brown had his jobs summit and outlined plans to combat unemployment. "Brown even cited Morrisons' move as a sign of optimism". Fancy that.

dpb

The thing is tho - there must be a market for such trash because otherwise they wouldnt be in buisness!
In roughly the same manner in which every Tom dick and Harry thought it wise to 'invest' in the bonaza of over-inflated property speculation

Devildog

Matt,

Don't take offence mate, this is a genuine point.

Are you pathalogically unable to post without in some way or another "blowing your own trumpet"?

Whilst its good to see that not every business is struggling, I doubt anyone really cares what percentage net profit your business generates in the context of this discussion.

BTW - turnover is generally quoted as an indicator of the "size" of a company, which appears a more interesting concept to the media than profitability. It is certainly more immediately accessable infomation.

It can, however, also be a useful indicator of likely funding requirements, as very few companies with significant turnover are self funding and require significant borrowing, which is relevant when there has been such a gap between libor and base rates (the so called "credit crunch")

But as I said, from a further lending perspective, the banks will require to be satisfied as to asset cover (if it all goes wrong) and profitability. That tuning business referred to in an earlier thread was probably struggling on both points.

Ideally, the media would establish turnover, profitability and net asset position before blurting out the story, but clearly that is to complicated a concept for the "business editors" to grasp.

Paul3446

If you don't lose your job, or need to borrow money, then the credit crunch should be good news for your finances.

My monthly mortgage payment has dropped from £260 to £94 in a year. It costs me £42 to fill up my car and not £63 like it used to.

I'm about £240 a month better off just from these two items!

Matteeboy

Ah yes Devildog but 80% profit on a £4 turnover isn't exactly great is it? I didn't state turnover (whicn I said was modest - hardly trumpet blowing) so our profits could easily be 20p.

Yes turnover can indicate the size of a company but can still be misleading. I used to work for a £5m turnover company with tight margins. Number of perm staff? 6.

The reason I'm annoyed is because the press are banging on about increased sales over Christmas and the like - yes they may have turned over a lot but with massive sales before Xmas, the profits will be utterly hopeless.

I've seen too many companies acting as "busy fools" - doing anything to increase turnover while happily pretty much ignoring profit margins. Utterly pointless.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Must have confused it with Tesco

Tesco plans to create 10,000 jobs despite weak Christmas sales - mirror.co.uk

However, Sainsburys went first

Sainsbury's to create thousands of new jobs after record Xmas figures | Professional Investor | Citywire

4000 there.

So that's almost 19,000 in stores plus associated construction etc etc etc. Headline news though? Not at all. Top story on the TV for 24 hours? Nope. 700 jobs MIGHT got at Land of Leather though and its big news.

no offence but sceptical attitudes are part of the problem right now not the solution.

5t.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Spectacularly missing my point again.

No one is saying there is not a recession, no one is saying that people should not be frugal, but to say the red tops are forewarning them to keep a few pennies aside is like saying that Hitler wasnt all that keen on the Jews - more like they are scaring people into thinking the end of the world is nigh.

Look I understand you are one of the people on here who seems happy to look onthe current situation more gloomily than most and that's up to you, all I am saying is that the media are definitely making things worse. As the article in the original post on here says pessimism can often all too easily become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Anyway Micky's posts have been far more eloquent on the subject than I.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Absolutely on the nail. The media are the biggest bunch of doom mongers around (well after certain people on SN of course )

stilover

House prices had to fall. They just couldn't keep rising and rising forever.

If you have cash in the bank this Credit crunch is brilliant news. You can now pick up a dream car that used to be far out of reach, but now is affordable'ish.

Who'd have though you could pick up a 2 year old 911 Tubo for £55k?

TBH though it is the media that make matters far worse than what they probably are. I've stopped watching the news over the last couple of weeks. I'll catch the headlines and that's it. Can't be bothered listening to all the doom & gloom the Media spout out every night.

Same story every single night.

Devildog

Dude,

it was just a pointer for future reference. Feel free to be a target for the likes of Davyboy if you wish

I agree though, and the best thing to do is largely ignore the opinions of the media, sifting through the misleading commentary and finding the reality.

Problem is, most people believe everything they hear and read.

Corporate recovery and restructuring is what I do, so I am well aware of what businesses (incorporated or otherwise) get right and get wrong, and what issues they face in the current climate.

JTaylor

I'm a Sales Manager, Mr Fan, and have a vested interested in buoyancy. The company I work for are significantly up like-for-like as we're picking up market share from those businesses falling down. However, I'm looking at businesses from the inside (I had/have middle management contacts at MFI and Land of Leather, for example) and things really ain't good. Pessimistic? You bet! Oh, and by the way....

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

JTaylor

No offence taken, 5T, we're just larking about on the internet after all.

Matteeboy

Devil - you must be fricking busy then!
Busy here too but this week is my monster travelling week.
Yesterday - 2 x 3 hour train journeys (need to work while I travel before anyone asks why I don't drive!)
Today - 5.5 hour train trip.
Tomorrow - 5.5 hour train trip.

Rarely happens but when it does, they all seem to be in the same week!

My current opinion is "keep things going as they are but be aware that things could easily go t1ts up so prepare for it as well." Better plant some more veg methinks!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

A pessimistic sales manager with a vested interest in buoyancy - that's almost an oxymoron - LOL!

Oh and as for MFI and Land of Leather - well I shan't be cruel, but they were sort of bound to go at the first sign of a downturn. No surprises really.

Oh dear, so my argument had a reduced impact due to some poxy law written on a Wikipedia page. Give me strenghth LOL!

Devildog

Its not really "brilliant news" though.

Returns on investments are down, returns on savings are virtually non existant, the security of your cash is, to a degree, now questionable (depending on where it is) and your £55k turbo will be worth less in 2 years than it would be if you had paid more for it.

What you save with purchases now, may be offset by reduced revenues from elsewhere.

Best placed are those with base rate trackers, secure jobs, and no savings.

JTaylor

Lowest interest rates since the BOE was formed in 1664, The British Chambers of Commerce said its survey results were "awful" and the worst since it began in 1989, the British Retail Consortium reported the worst December since the survey began in 1995, last year saw the biggest annual house price drop on record, an extraordinary scale of job losses so early in the cycle, record falls in share prices etc. etc.

The press are not our parents and have no responsibilty other than to report the facts; if a story's inaccurate then clearly that's out of line. What I've listed above are facts. Are they sensational? I would flippin' say so!

Matteeboy

Surely better placed are those that rent or fully own their houses, no job is secure and having no savings safety net is about as "best placed" as being a paedo at a PTA meeting...

Devildog

I don't disagree.

There is, however, a massive difference between factually reporting something sensational and sensasionalist reporting.

No one is suggesting that the press have no responsibility other than to report the facts.

But that's the point - they don't just report the facts. Collectively the media also makes comment on speculation, opinion and heresay, much of which is reported in such a manner as to appear factual, or put a different spin on it. Always has done, always will do.

Using the earlier example above:

£1m turnover business has to make receptionist redundant because nasty ******* bank refuses to increase overdraft by £10k.

vs

Bank says I'm sorry, we can't risk losing another £10k over our current exposure just because your poorly managed, low margin and doomed to ultimate failure business turns over £1m a year yet can't afford to pay the receptionists salary.

Now, in that example maybe the bank is being a *******, or maybe the business was screwed anyway. That's irrelevant. The point is that the general media inevitably go down the tone of the former, not the latter, irrespective of having all the facts or not.

And that is, or should be, unacceptable.

But of course, jumping on bandwagons sells more papers and gets people watching with more interest.

Devildog

LOL

Agreed. "Secure" and "best placed" are very much contextual points here.

Perhaps I should have said "best placed to take advantage of the current economic climate"

ChrisB

IMHO, some jobs are secure. I know quite a few people who work in the NHS - frontline services rather than "managers". If these people don't have secure jobs and were made redundant, the NHS just ceased to exist...

Some PCTs have more money than they know what to do with. New (flash) offices, headcounts going up...

Matteeboy

Had two meetings with a county council yesterday and one last week - almost all are fearing for their "safe" jobs.
The government has also run out of money and will be aggressively cutting staff soon I reckon.
While teaching and doctoring are probably the "safest" things to be in, I still don't think they are all that secure.

PCTs are another matter. Some of what they do is good, other stuff is near criminal (locking councils into 25/30 year contracts for schools that have closed/not been built for example, or winning work that they have no experience in such as ambulance service contracts).

JTaylor

I agree with all of the above and would add that the consumer has a choice of which paper to buy. The Sun has to be 'sensational' as that (admittedly frustrating, agenda driven) style of reporting appeals to its readership and for a more considered approach the FT or The Times are on the same shelf. The popular press has always been a key driver regarding economic sentiment and I stand by my view that if the redtop's readership are battening down the hatches because of what they sniff-out in the rag, then so be it. Its a small part of an essential correction.

ChrisB

PCT = Primary Care Trust (NHS). Are you getting confused with PFIs?

finalzero

The problem is the bull**** that was fed to us...

We are told for a long time that nothing is wrong when the house is obviously burning down.

Then we are told yet again it's not as bad as people think... add to that the media which is obviously sensationalising the whole affair and you have the current situation.

Matteeboy

Yep.

And now I feel silly...

hoskib

iTrader: (1)

lol, number one rule in media - don't let the truth get in the way of a good story

another sad fact is we are, on the whole, a country of moaners. we're lapping up these doom storys.

and i'm sorry to say it, but we need a bit of a leveller to sort out the mentality of this country.
i'm not old but i can still look back to my folks struggling and having second jobs to make ends meet, not just put it on tick and worry about it later.
asking for things for xmas/birthdays and being chuffed to **** with the 2nd hand action man helicopter, understanding the new one was beyond their means.

mortages and essentials aside, i personally don't think it'll be such a bad thing if you actually have to save your **** off to buy something if credit isn't easily available. people managed in the past.