Why do we now have a generation of cowards?
02 February 2009, 03:39 PM
#61
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Boro - see I would (and have done). Yes it's none of my business but there is "right" and "wrong" and that's just wrong.
See I agree with this thread - too many just run away from stuff. Well sometimes you can't. Then what happens? Do you pat yourself on the back for being so uncaring when your partner gets battered in front of you by a mugger? Yes I'm sure you'd all have a go at helping them but could you actually do anything about it?
If someone attacked us, I'd never forgive myself if I couldn't do anything about it.
A bloke went for me and my wife a while back for NO reason late at night. Totally unprovoked and very aggro. I flattened him. What would you "passive" types have done? Just stood there and got beaten up?!
See I agree with this thread - too many just run away from stuff. Well sometimes you can't. Then what happens? Do you pat yourself on the back for being so uncaring when your partner gets battered in front of you by a mugger? Yes I'm sure you'd all have a go at helping them but could you actually do anything about it?
If someone attacked us, I'd never forgive myself if I couldn't do anything about it.
A bloke went for me and my wife a while back for NO reason late at night. Totally unprovoked and very aggro. I flattened him. What would you "passive" types have done? Just stood there and got beaten up?!
02 February 2009, 03:56 PM
#62
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Pete, one minute you refer to "us oldies" and the next minute you say, "If our Grandfathers took the same view, and chose not to fight the *****".
I believe this is called a continuity error.
Could you confirm how old you are pretending to be this week?
I believe this is called a continuity error.
Could you confirm how old you are pretending to be this week?
02 February 2009, 03:57 PM
#63
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That's different though. Blood is thicker than water. I care about family, so would jump in. If it's a stranger, then I have no feelings towards them, so why get hurt/kiled for them?
02 February 2009, 04:00 PM
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Where is your sense of justice?
Sure you can just walk on but would you not feel guilty at all? I'd spend a long time afterwards worrying about whether she was okay or not.
And if you won't help a stranger out, would you honestly be able to help out family? Of course it's different but IMO the sort of person that won't help a stranger is the sort of person ill equipped to help anyone.
Last edited by Matteeboy; 02 February 2009 at 04:01 PM.
02 February 2009, 04:06 PM
#66
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If violence is already occuring and you shout/scream/run over it is most likely that the attacker will run away but the situatuion above is the one that most leads to the helping hero being hurt/killed.
It's to do with the intent/adrenalin of the attacker. As he hasn't yet physically attacked the woman all his rage/intent/adrenalin will now be focussed on YOU when you step in. He will see it a LOT EASIER to attack another guy than his GF (who 99% of the time he would NOT have actualyl physically attacked) You will not have anywhere near the level of chemical reactions going on in your brain (which is what you need to stand a chance and act instinctively) and you are at a massive disadvantage.
If you didn't step in then it would most likely have stayed as a verbal fight, stepping in massively increases the chances that he will become violent.
Last edited by Nat; 02 February 2009 at 04:10 PM.
02 February 2009, 04:14 PM
#67
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Okay then - a helpless woman gets battered in the street by an aggro partner/mugger/whoever - you have NO problem with leaving them to get beaten up just in case you get hurt?
Where is your sense of justice?
Sure you can just walk on but would you not feel guilty at all? I'd spend a long time afterwards worrying about whether she was okay or not.
And if you won't help a stranger out, would you honestly be able to help out family? Of course it's different but IMO the sort of person that won't help a stranger is the sort of person ill equipped to help anyone.
Where is your sense of justice?
Sure you can just walk on but would you not feel guilty at all? I'd spend a long time afterwards worrying about whether she was okay or not.
And if you won't help a stranger out, would you honestly be able to help out family? Of course it's different but IMO the sort of person that won't help a stranger is the sort of person ill equipped to help anyone.
I wouldn't just walk, no.
I would shout something, and phone for the police.
Walk over and have a fight? No thankyou. You'd never know if he had a concealed knife, or had some mates standing nearby, or just inside the house. They see approach to break up the beating, and decide they don't like that. You've spoiled their entertainment, and so decide to take it out on you.
I ain't no soft sh*te. I used to do martial arts many years ago, and could probably defend myself pretty good, but why risk it?
Interview with Jackie Chan years ago. he was asked what he would do if someone pulled a knife on him and demanded his wallet? He replied "Give him my wallet. Why risk getting hurt or killed for a few Dollars".
02 February 2009, 04:16 PM
#68
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That is exactly the situation where you are mostl likely to get stabbed.
If violence is already occuring and you shout/scream/run over it is most likely that the attacker will run away but the situatuion above is the one that most leads to the helping hero being hurt/killed.
It's to do with the intent/adrenalin of the attacker. As he hasn't yet physically attacked the woman all his rage/intent/adrenalin will now be focussed on YOU when you step in. He will see it a LOT EASIER to attack another guy than his GF (who 99% of the time he would NOT have actualyl physically attacked) You will not have anywhere near the level of chemical reactions going on in your brain (which is what you need to stand a chance and act instinctively) and you are at a massive disadvantage.
If you didn't step in then it would most likely have stayed as a verbal fight, stepping in massively increases the chances that he will become violent.
If violence is already occuring and you shout/scream/run over it is most likely that the attacker will run away but the situatuion above is the one that most leads to the helping hero being hurt/killed.
It's to do with the intent/adrenalin of the attacker. As he hasn't yet physically attacked the woman all his rage/intent/adrenalin will now be focussed on YOU when you step in. He will see it a LOT EASIER to attack another guy than his GF (who 99% of the time he would NOT have actualyl physically attacked) You will not have anywhere near the level of chemical reactions going on in your brain (which is what you need to stand a chance and act instinctively) and you are at a massive disadvantage.
If you didn't step in then it would most likely have stayed as a verbal fight, stepping in massively increases the chances that he will become violent.
02 February 2009, 04:21 PM
#69
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Unfortunately lots of have a go heroes lack the commitment to do the job 'properly' because they aren't always naturally aggressive and respect the law to boot. Against the scum today, who don't fear being locked up, you have to nail them or not bother as they will stop at nothing, it seems.
02 February 2009, 04:23 PM
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I wouldn't step in if things stayed verbal - only if things got physical. I agree that it could easily just calm down but I'd hang around out of sight to make sure things did cool down.
If someone pulled a knife on me and demanded my wallet I'd give it to them too - I haven't been hurt and no one I know has been hurt. My wallet is worth nowt in comparison. But if things get violent, I like to think things can be sorted out. Yes a knife is tricky to deal with but at least try and be slightly prepared for a situation in which someone close to you is threatened.
All my martial arts instructors have always taught us to run away in knife situations BUT still taught us what to do just in case running is not possible.
Yes people get killed for stepping in but they are usually untrained. 95% of knife criminals do not expect anyone to relaliate - if they do, they aren't sure what to do. As did the person who left a scar on my chest but didn't do a very good job of it.
As for having less chemical reactions in your brain so being at a disadvantage - WTF?! Where did you get that from? A calm, trained person can sort things out much better than some raging nutter.
If someone pulled a knife on me and demanded my wallet I'd give it to them too - I haven't been hurt and no one I know has been hurt. My wallet is worth nowt in comparison. But if things get violent, I like to think things can be sorted out. Yes a knife is tricky to deal with but at least try and be slightly prepared for a situation in which someone close to you is threatened.
All my martial arts instructors have always taught us to run away in knife situations BUT still taught us what to do just in case running is not possible.
Yes people get killed for stepping in but they are usually untrained. 95% of knife criminals do not expect anyone to relaliate - if they do, they aren't sure what to do. As did the person who left a scar on my chest but didn't do a very good job of it.
As for having less chemical reactions in your brain so being at a disadvantage - WTF?! Where did you get that from? A calm, trained person can sort things out much better than some raging nutter.
Last edited by Matteeboy; 02 February 2009 at 04:28 PM.
02 February 2009, 04:27 PM
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No, in a situation like that you need to be acting instinctively when it all happens in a matter of seconds. It's all very well being calm and clear headed but if you step into a confrontation against someone who is 99% ready to explode you are one step behind him. the calm approach will work if they guy isn't quite at that point of no return but not once he's reached it. If you stepped in early enough in the confrontation then that's fine.
Why do you think you see so many have a go heroes get hurt/killed - a lot of them trained/fit people?
Why do you think you see so many have a go heroes get hurt/killed - a lot of them trained/fit people?
02 February 2009, 04:33 PM
#73
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Nat - you are just wrong. The person who is going to explode is reacting on adrenalin - they don't have control of their actions. They don't become some superhero suddenly. They'll just lash out uncontrollably.
Training means this rage reaction can be overcome - that's why you do the same stuff again and again and again - it seems boring at the time but it all comes in when things get nasty.
I've stopped a couple of nasty incidents simply by blocking a couple of flailing "rage" punches - no one hurt, just an attacker who suddenly realises it's best not to continue. Not difficult to learn - just needs doing again and again. Just like kicking a football, batting a cricket ball, surfing and most other physical activities - it's called muscle memory.
Training means this rage reaction can be overcome - that's why you do the same stuff again and again and again - it seems boring at the time but it all comes in when things get nasty.
I've stopped a couple of nasty incidents simply by blocking a couple of flailing "rage" punches - no one hurt, just an attacker who suddenly realises it's best not to continue. Not difficult to learn - just needs doing again and again. Just like kicking a football, batting a cricket ball, surfing and most other physical activities - it's called muscle memory.
02 February 2009, 04:36 PM
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I know what you mean but the average person just is not trained for and unable to do this. If you are and can react like that then you're very good.
I thought this was about people in general though....99% of men are not trained like that however hard they may think they are. That's why a lot of guys who may be big units and ultra fit step into things and get hurt.
I thought this was about people in general though....99% of men are not trained like that however hard they may think they are. That's why a lot of guys who may be big units and ultra fit step into things and get hurt.
02 February 2009, 04:40 PM
#76
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"Big units" - brilliant!!
Don't think fitness makes much difference to be honest, unless you need to run away.
Anyway, good on that old bloke. We need some old fashioned values back in our society.
It's all "me me me" and ignoring fellow humans in trouble these days. It would be great to see society pulling together more often. If a few people flattened a few more thugs, maybe they'd think twice rather than just getting away with it every time.
Don't think fitness makes much difference to be honest, unless you need to run away.
Anyway, good on that old bloke. We need some old fashioned values back in our society.
It's all "me me me" and ignoring fellow humans in trouble these days. It would be great to see society pulling together more often. If a few people flattened a few more thugs, maybe they'd think twice rather than just getting away with it every time.
02 February 2009, 04:43 PM
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No, in a situation like that you need to be acting instinctively when it all happens in a matter of seconds. It's all very well being calm and clear headed but if you step into a confrontation against someone who is 99% ready to explode you are one step behind him. the calm approach will work if they guy isn't quite at that point of no return but not once he's reached it. If you stepped in early enough in the confrontation then that's fine.
Why do you think you see so many have a go heroes get hurt/killed - a lot of them trained/fit people?
Why do you think you see so many have a go heroes get hurt/killed - a lot of them trained/fit people?
I don't think though that anybody has mentioned trying to fight a guy on drugs. You may as well be trying to lose a boomerang.
02 February 2009, 09:31 PM
#78
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It's not wrong.
Put a normal guy up against a psyched up angry man and angry man will win every time.
02 February 2009, 09:36 PM
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02 February 2009, 09:45 PM
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No matter, they would still lose. It's all about the adrenalin and state of mind. 
02 February 2009, 10:01 PM
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So its all about adrenalin and a state of mind then, OK, and that works in the favour of somebody about to blow a gasket.
I reckon you've been inhaling too much steam.
02 February 2009, 10:58 PM
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If your comments were not aimed at me I apologise.
I despise people who prey on weaker people and have made certain individuals regret doing this in the past in a big way.
I thought the keyboard warrior stuff was aimed at me and if it wasn't I am sorry
I despise people who prey on weaker people and have made certain individuals regret doing this in the past in a big way.
I thought the keyboard warrior stuff was aimed at me and if it wasn't I am sorry
02 February 2009, 11:02 PM
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02 February 2009, 11:03 PM
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