RA Dunk

i do seem to remember something like this one the news about prisoners getting compensated for something or other, cant remember what it was now though

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

My interwebs is playing up a bit but basically read up on "America's Toughest Sheriff, Joe Arpaio"

Prisoners in tents, chain gangs, paying for their food etc, TVs that only show the Disney channel or the weather etc.

Cost plummeted and complaints come in over rights and not offering all the recreation facilities etc but yet reoffending rates stay the same.

"Sheriff Joe's philosophy might make a great deal of sense: Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury on taxpayer money, and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford themselves. Yet, despite 15 years of his alternative methods, he acknowledges that he has the same repeat offender rate as the national average, about 60 to 70 percent."

BerksMontNews.com

5t.

The Zohan

Lot of the re-offending is driven by drug addiction and the ease in which drugs get into prisons to continue the habits of users/dependants.

Also Sentences are not long enough (especially now with serious overcrowding) to get drug users off of drugs over a longer period of time.

It is not compulsory to treat drug users in prison (would affect their human rights apparently) so they can get/use drugs and not be forced into/onto a programme to get off.

All wrong IMHO and the rest of society suffers for it, screw our rights eh!!

RA Dunk

true, give the convicts/druggies an easy life and shaft those who continually get screwed by them

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

True. Even then this guy does do something about that and it still makes no difference. There is of course the nature/nuture argument but at the end of the day it just seems like some people are bad eggs full stop. They will never be of use to society.

"But Arpaio, a 25-year DEA agent, also has instituted a drug program for inmates, and it boasts a recidivism rate among graduates of only 13-15 percent. Maricopa prisons require non-English speaking prisoners to take English classes. "The inmates need to speak English," said Sheriff Joe. "My guards don't need to speak Spanish. We're in America." "

I do like this guy as well. He's spot on with the 'no habla'

5t.

The Zohan

If correct the figures speak for themselves and should perhaps be a model as our crime and gang problems seem to follow those of the US of A.

BUT of course we have the EU and the EU human rights treaty which is used and abused to the betterment and protection of scum and those who chose to do wrong that seem to have the same rights as those who choose do not do wrong or break the law. In some cases the scum are better informed, represented and have a lot of professionals who fall over themselves to help the scum out as it is never their fault.

As for speaking English, it will never happen we will alway pamper and go out of the way to accommodate those who do not, Northants Police spent some £ 230k of taxpayers money over 3 years on interpreters - go figure!

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

That's something completely different: "luxuries" v. "hard labour", but both without any form of rehabilitation. The argument where I came in was whether rehabilitation works or not, which you didn't address.


M

The Zohan

define rehabilitation, would it include getting drug dependant inmates off of drugs - that would be a great start and a great way of cutting re-offending - see my points above and sadly in the UK it is a non starter at the minute.

Would rehab include punishing those who break the laws/rules whilst in prison with hard labour and punishment 'details' - the cr@p jobs no one likes or wants for example?

It should and does include classes for those who do want to better themselves in a lot of cases but without the removal of drugs from the equation then it is nowhere nears as effective..

It should and in some cases include half way houses away from the areas and people and routines that got them into their habits in the first place although if they want to start drug taking again and choose to then again FAIL.

This has a lot to do with punishment and a robust and perhaps enforced rehab programme with time added on for those who CHOOSE not to take the programme and pass out clean and drug free.

The thing is people CHOOSE and make CHOICE every day and some are the wrong CHOICES and responsibility for theses CHOICES i being eroded by poor government, PC liberals and those so called professionals who make a name and living by spouting it is not their (scums) fault.

RA Dunk

now theres something that deffo should be brought back in, get the scum ******* out and about busting there ***** repairing damage to public property digging roads (the hard way) or doing something constructive with there time inside, for the habitual reoffenders this is the only language they understand most of them are just too bloody lazt to work so turn to crime for some cash, a stint of very hard labour would do them a world of good TBH, prison should be a place to be feared

jasey

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Slopping out bill rises to £44m

Story's a bit old - but we've clearly been compensating these poor unfortunate scumbags in the past - I'm sure we will in the future too.

More recent story;
BBC NEWS | Scotland | Anger over slopping out 'delay'

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

Most of the drug users in prison are on drugs because they are in prison, not in prison because they are on drugs. Everything I've heard suggests far more come out addicted than go in. Your target is not wrong, just being approached from the wrong direction.


M

Fuzz

Because they are too thick to think maybe if they didn't do it, they wouldn't get thrown in there again !!

What the **** has members of scoobynet got to do with it, the majority of those aforementioned thickos wouldn't have the first clue about how to use a computer, let alone make a reasoned reply a on a bulletin board..

The Zohan

Not sure i am coming from the wrong direction. Having spent time working with Police over 15 years from s uperintendants to PC's, Probation officers, etc i have listened more that spouted off and i simpliy do not agree.

Are you saying those convicted of drug related crimes and already addicted to drugs to feed their habits are not on drugs then go into prison and then become addicted, i am sure you are not?

Yes i am sure some prisoners not on hard drugs, Heroin, Crack, etc do get onto them in prison but not all plenty arrive with the habit already in place.

CHOICE just seems to get left out of the equation. People (as mentioned previously) have choices that they make. They also have the options to get help, you can lead a horse to water, etc.

OK i know this is simplistic, get the drugs out of prisions. OK the practicalities are somewhat more difficult that a few words from moi.

If this is a big problem in prison which by all account it is then something(s) needs to be done to tackle it.

Back to earlier are we saying that rehabilitation is not the answer or part of the answer. The biggies sems to be drugs and getting rid of them.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Er... without stepping on the great work Mr Habgood is doing i did just want to pull this one back...

Point is rehab (as i would define it not sure about you) includes all the wood workign classes along with the luxuries that are meant to rehabilitate rather than punish people for their crimes.

This guy makes a good point. He punishes people for their crimes. He is the epitomy of "don't do the crime if you can't do the time". They are in there because they chose to commit crime and therefore do not get to whinge about the conditions. I think the point about soldiers living in the same conditions, in hotter temps just because someone said they have to, not because they have committed a crime is a great one.

At the end of the day he punishes people, saves a fortune in costs and gets the same reoffender rates. That was entirely the point. Rehab doesn't work.

5t.

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

This is where we came in: I'm asking for actual figures to support that assertion and I'm still not seeing any. "It stands to reason" isn't figures.


As for that idiot sheriff, I doubt he saves any money because he almost certainly needs more guards when the prisoners are out on the chain gangs. He isn't doing it to save money, but to help him get re-elected.


M

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

No, I'm saying that the proportion of people admitted to prison addicted to drugs is lower than the proportion of people released from prison who are addicted. While most addicts steal, for instance, most people who steal are not addicts. Unless they've spent time inside anyway.



M

The Zohan

Can i ask where you get your information from?

It may not be just down to the number who steal as much as how often they steal of course...