fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Martin and Dave - You've both done the 'British as you or I' and are now asking for the figures on the non-english speaking proportion of people.

Once again, if they are as British as us why do we need to have train station suigns in Punjabi???

Surely learning the language has got to be the most basic level of integration! This country allows them many other freedoms which they may not recieve in foreign lands such as the freedom of worship, freedom of speech and importantly protection from sexism.

I don't think it is much to expect them to learn the language do you?

5t.

The Zohan

Very valid point!

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

You forgot about:

Fish and Chips on a Friday
Roast beef to go with your Yorkshire puddings
Daily Mail - According to some of the opinions on this post!
Curry or Chinese takeaways
Kebab and a fight after too much beer on a Saturday night
Skipping church due to a hangover and only making the effort at Christmas and Easter!
Bitching and moaning that we don't have enough public holidays
Complaining about the weather

davegtt

FFS, for a start this wasnt the argument. Secondly, you want to make your mind up whether we are talking about new immigrants (Polish etc) that you attack when it suits, for example those who come to the country and cant speak it, or the large Muslim populations which are British as theyve been here numerous years and do speak it. Just because they speak more than just English does not mean because they live here it should be their first language.

Ask me a specific question and I'll quite happy discuss it with you but its pretty apparent that there are many people here who are stuck in their idealistic little Britian and dont want it to change. If anything, changing Britian, will make it a better place, because, lets be honest, its far from perfect, and it never has been, before anyone spouts cr@p about it once being "Great" Britain.

eggy790

iTrader: (20)

half you guys on here are so ignorant, half of you have never stept foot in a slaughter house! and trust me your so called inhumane stunning method! isnt what you make it out to be, neither is your method of killing chickens..

am sure theres probs a few vids on the net on how painfull it is for the animal!

theres been tests done about the captive bolt way of killing them and how its inhumane!

the islamic method is to sharpen your knife before hand to relieve pain.. its a deep incision with the sharp knife cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides as also the trachea and esophagus!

there were tests done.. a comparison. which to cut short..

doing the halal method of slaughter.. the first 3 seconds frm the time of slaughter the EEG did not show any change from the graph as before the slaughter showing that he animal did not feel any pain during ot immediately after the incision.

follwoing the 3 seconds the EEG recorded a condition of deep sleep! i.e. unconsiousness due to the large amounts of blood gushing out..

after 6 seconds the EEG recorded zero travel showing no feeling of pain at all!

the stunning method, showed unconsiousness after stunning.. EEG shows severe pain immediately after stunning and the animals heart beating earlier than when slaughter with a knife.. not only being cruel btu also unhygenic for the customer as there is more blood retension inthe meat.

where as with halal slaughter the heart was still pounding and the reflex action of the spinal cord drove miximum blood from the body!

SO the knife should be sharp and it should involve a swift cutting of vessels of the neck so it disconnects the flow of blood to the nerves in the brain responsible for pain. Thus the animal does not feel pain.

The movements and withering that happen to the animal after the cut is made are not due to pain, but due to the contraction and relaxation of the muscles deficient in blood (the spine i mentioned).

they are also supposed to not sharpen the knife in front of the animal or kill an animal in front of another animal!

its not cruelty to animals liek you say it is.. its a carefull procedure!

saying all this.. halal meat is the uk is very doubtfull in a lot of places.. so many dodgy slaughterers.. and those not slaughtering correctly .. making the meat haraam even though they say or expect it to be halal..

same with those that have an audio cassete playing durin the slaughter instead of slaughtering by their own mouth in the name of god.. so that is also forbidden lol anyway going off track here..

the method presecribed is humane, whether the people do it correctly nowadays is a different question..

fatherpierre

And that dead period from Xmas to New Year....

When we love the 'immigants' cos they are the only people that will work to provide us with open shops and taxis, etc

Jamz3k

can we not just go back to attacking the French?

nerocircus

iTrader: (1)

lmao...3 sentences within the same post.

People, in general, need to wake up and realise that the world doesn't belong to you, or me, or any other indivudual or group of individuals. Yes, I was lucky enough to be born into a country without horrendous regimes, but it's pure chance that I was born here, and not somewhere else. Why shouldn't anyone else have the right to move to another part of the world if they so wish?

And the amount of people who spout cr*p about how everyone should speak OUR language if they come to OUR country makes me sick. They've got a lot of learning to do if you ask me.

davegtt

Maybe, you should show an interest in them and give them some welcoming. They might explain a little bit about their background and be interesting in yours. Integration works from both sides and thats the problem with the UK. Many people see someone of foreign background and straight away pull their face or say something derogatory.

fatherpierre

French muslims?

Jamz3k

Does it make a difference? they are all the same.

classic Subaru Si

Dave, I'd like to know what your views would be on the fact that my Dad has been laid off 4 times now in the last 6 months (joiner on building sites) but they kept all the sausage rolls on! Does that sound fair to you mate? And your sat there wondering why it get's peoples backs up. Weather they speak English or not, who gives them the f***ing right to take our jobs! Please give me one advantage of having these foreign workers here and I will eat my ******* hat!

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Not having a go at any specific group. Just Punjabi is an example. By your reckoning the station signs should be abotu 10ft high to announce it in all languages, that's inclusive right?

After all, if they are british, born in britain, having the benefit of a uk passport, enjoying the nhs and other benefits then why would they not speak english as a first language?

Also, if they refuse to speak english as a first language or do speak english as a second language but not at home and to their children (causing problems at school - 1 in 8 kids apparently now has english as a second language not the first stats from Office National Statistics feel free to google) then how are they integrating?

Specific questions.

5t.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Why.... are you bored with the Germans??

Diesel

No abuse Tim - just make sure to refuse the anaesthetic before your next filling according to your logic!!

I find your approach absolutely bizarre. Why wouldn't you prefer to minimise the trauma/pain/suffering for any sentient creature? This is why I wont touch Halal meat - even after reading the useful link here. Absolute poppycock!

D

davegtt

But its always the muslims under attack. I dont see any problems you raise with Italian



Or French maybe



Why does it matter that you have to worry about what language a sign is in, as long as you can read it surely? Many MANY other countries are quite happy to publish alot of stuff in English for you.

Many reasons, their family home may well be of foreign background. They probably speak English as good as you or me, going off some of your previous posts, Id say thats a good argument, although we'll leave the grammar picking to Tel. Example, I live with a Polish guy, superb bloke, have alot of time for, his sister and fella live here too (not in my house I may add ) but they have a little boy, Oliver, he was born in the UK. Polish is his first language, he uses it at home, he uses it at my house when visiting but if I wish to speak English he is as good as any other English born child I know. But Polish is still his first language. I had a g/friend about a year ago who got ratty about the Poles speaking Polish in my house because she couldnt understand it and made a few comments to me about it being ignorant. She soon got told who the ignorant one was and booted out on her ****.

You are the one quoting figures, dont make me go and research this, if you want to stand by this statement, go find me government figures, otherwise I'll ignore it as rubbish.

Luan Pra bang

So do you accept that Halal is about reducing suffering to animals or not ? Irespective of the answer do you then boycott french and danish products on the basis that their farming methods are particularly cruel and have been outlawed by the EU. If you don't then it is clear that you issues are race related not animal sufering related.

classic Subaru Si

How the hell can you go off government figures when they don't have a clue how many are actually in this country?

Luan Pra bang

It is basic bad manners to go to an English persons home and speak in Polish. If someone did that to me I would tell them straight what my opinions where. when we had a large Polish contingent at work all got read the riot act by me if they spoke Polish around English staff utimately a work place functions as a team and people consistently speaking in polish can alienate staff members. If they spoke in Polish to get a point across they had to explain what they said after in English. I have lost count of the amount of times I have shouted 'We are in England so you will speak ******* english' at Polish staff'

davegtt

All Im saying is its his argument, if hes going to throw a statistic at me, give me the evidence, dont tell me to go and check hes right, otherwise I'll ignore it as made up ****.

jacrobat

Yeah the production of fois gras and veal calves in particular.

davegtt

Its his home aswell if you read the post fully. Just because I live there too, does not mean I expect him to use his second language every second hes under the roof. He always talks to me in English unless I want to practice my Polish with him. If he talks to his Girlfriend or someone on the phone, or a Polish friend who visits, its up to him what language he speaks in. Why should I tell him different unless hes talking too me or about me. Luckily enough I speak enough of it now to know if that was to happen anyway.

jacrobat

and all of those poor frogs left on crutches with no legs.

davegtt

No, Im sick of chasing them when they run away, at least the poles stand their ground and put up a fight

davegtt

ho ho ho

jacrobat

My mate's Welsh relatives do that to him and he does not speak Welsh at all. Go into some places in North Wales and speak English and you will be deliberately ignored.

jacrobat

The 2001 census said that the Muslim population was 1.6million or 2.8%. The last unofficial estimate by the Home Office in 2008 was 2 million or 3.3%.

davegtt

Is that population or population of people with English as the second language?

fatherpierre

I've had that in N Wales. My mate (from there and speaks fluent Welsh) went fooking ape at the people in the pub we went in - his local.

What made him most mad was that they only ever speak English and they decided to practice Welsh for my benefit.

Made me chuckle at how sad people can be.

classic Subaru Si

Unofficial estimate??? you might be better off finding a unicorn and asking what it thinks the figure is! I'd think it would be nearer the 5 million mark to be honest!