Alan Jeffery

Nothing! we produce EJ engines with 500 bhp plus all the time, if you have the budget.. My point is that there is more to power production than choosing a certain turbo, which Mark and Simon agreed with.

Alan Jeffery

Invariably I find a 2.5 set up for no more than 450 bhp is the mutts on the road.
Nobody has to agree with me, I just happen to like driving them.

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

It's commonly accepted by most of the tuners I know, that whilst a turbo may make XXX bhp on an Evo, or other make of engine, you're unlikely to get the same result from a Subaru engine. Simon has mentioned some of the reasons why.

I have no idea of the spec' of the T38, so it may well be capable of making 500bhp on a Subaru, but if that were the case, I would expect it to make a lot more than 500bhp on an Evo.


Mark.

Pete

I had a Turbo Technics T38 on my cossies and it was maxed out @ 459bhp, hated it too, bloody thing was really laggy, BUT as said, may differ on other cars with setup, mapper etc..

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

Have to agree with Alan. 2.5lt, circa 450bhp/450ftlbs, well set up, on an MD321T turbo, or similar, is hard to beat for performance, fun factor, and value for money.


Mark.

Pete

Mark, what kind of money are we talking for the above?? with 6 speed box too??

Alan Jeffery

Funnily enough we found 450 bhp on both an Evo and a Scooby at the same 1.6 bar recently. We haven't yet run the S206 (Scooby version) up to full boost yet, so we'll answer that one when we do.

Alan Jeffery

Yep, we matched those figures on an 03 STi which went out today after a new 2.5 build with an MD555. Easy 450 and smooth as silk on a Simtek.

Alan Jeffery

My Escort Cosworth was like that on the T35, which was why it went in favour of a P1!

Shaun

Would be good to discuss the WHOLE curve and not just peak figures, when people are discussing turbos, along with engine capacity, VVT (or not), boost and fuel used.

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

Alan,

Know what you mean, but if you think the Simtek is good, you really should talk to Pat about letting you try the new Solaris. I know it's a bit dearer than the Simtek, but unlike the Simtek, the Solaris does have full wide band lambda, an EGT input, data logging, proper knock control, and launch, & anti lag are included within the price, oh and they can do the later fly by wire cars too


Mark.

Shaun

Mark,
What REAL WORLD advantages to a normal customer who just wants to drive his car, would a Solaris have over something like a Simtek or Hydra? Not a jibe, but a serious question.

Alan Jeffery

I've no doubt at all that it's very good. We have been closely associated with Simtek from the very start, and we're always the first to take on new developments. I know there are new features to come from Simtek, and as soon as I'm allowed to, I'll pass them on!

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Hmmm Alan can you give us a hint at to what these features could be

Banny

pat

Why are apples better than oranges ?

Just like your question, it is difficult to answer because we don't know what it should be better at.... an apple may be better at disabling a car because it is harder and therefore, like a potato, more difficult to dislodge from the exhaust, should it be inserted there. Or alternately it might simply be better because you don't need to peel it before eating it! I could go on for the next three pages theorising why an apple might be better than an orange, but I can guarantee you 99.9% of the reasons I come up with, despite being true, are also irrelevant.

In the same way I could spend the next three pages detailing things that the Solaris can do which in certain customers' eyes would be seen as an improvement whilst others may not care. I don't see the point in doing that especially since this is a thread about turbos and not ECUs!

Let me try to explain by example. Solaris has four fuel maps and four ignition maps, each of which can be assigned arbitrarily to any of 8 calibrations which can be selected by the driver, so you could have fuel map 3 and ignition map 2 on calibration 5. Simtek has one fuel map, one ignition map, one fuel offset map and one ignition offset map, with two states as opposed to 8. But all of this is irrelevant if the customer doesn't care about being able to swap maps around. Simtek has a gear compensation on the boost control, while Solaris has per gear and per calibration boost progression control, but again the customer may not care, they might simply want full boost as soon as physically possible (even if it is at 35% throttle)....

So, just how do we define "better" ? And how do we know that a given customer will even appreciate that it is actually possible to do something when they don't actually want it ? Do they even realise that it's possible ? Ultimately, Solaris is an enabling technology that allows ideas to be realised, removing constraints and restrictions by introducing flexibility and configurability. It allows you to DO things... say you want 50% throttle to accelerate at 0.5G regardless of what gear you're in, with Solaris you just DO it... that might be a handy thing if you like to hold the car on the edge balancing it on the throttle, but nowhere near as useful for nipping down to Tescos. The WHY is up to you, the HOW is in the ECU

Cheers,

Pat.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Hmmm. I like apple pie and chips but not together !

I seem to be edging towards a Simtek based solution, due to the appalling cost of an Apexi AVCR now !

dunx

P.S. Thanks for the info pat, it's always good to get some informed opinions from those at the sharp end.

Jam Performance

iTrader: (3)

Any idea to when the display screen is being released?

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

A great explanation.

Why and How meet at Solaris.

Real difference in a real world Shaun is down to what a person wants. My real world involves some different driving to some but still includes the nip to Tescos. From track test on sunday I know exactly what Solaris did for me. It made it easier to drive the car.

A true fit, map and forget ecu with the proper knock control rather than having to worry about flashing CEL's and why they have happened.

Back to turbo's though (ie original topic)

FP Green wouldnt do 500 on mine - it made 465 mapped as far as it would go and I mean hundreds of map iterations rather than a 2 hour mapping session by one of the top mappers.

MD321V didnt quite make 500 on my std heads/cams albeit extremely close on std fuel but I will be testing it again soon now that it is on a proper ECU.

Turbo choice really affects the way a car drives, they change the character of the car in so many ways that dyno printouts just cannot portray. The difference in response in a ball bearing turbo to the FP green is night and day. I have had both on my car and I wouldn't swap back if someone paid me.

2.5 for road and track IMO - you cant beat 2 bar at 3000 to redline.

RA Dunk

wouldent these be a bit on the laggy side on a 2.1 though?

im considering a 2.1 ATM and was worried about lag later on when i strap a bigger turbo to it, say capable of 500 ponies

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

First off the OP was asking about the "Best 500bhp turbo for a 2.1lt", and I'm not aware of any better options to achieve that. Personally, I think the V will out perform the GT30R everywhere, but that's based on experience, not back to back testing.


As for 500bhp being a bit laggy on a 2.1lt, compared to 500bhp on a 2.35, or 2.5lt, yes, but it's about making compromises to suit ones budget.

The V that's going onto a 2.1lt has already achieved a high 10 second 1/4 on a T, so it will be interesting to see how the V performs.


Mark.