scoobybreaker

Why bring classics up and chavs its starting to really get on my nerves, We all have our personal preferance in cars. I could go buy a new impreza if i really wanted but I like classics I drive a classic the misses drives a classic (swapped from a 206cc! thank god)

It annoys me when some (not all) new age lads think they are better than classic owners guess what your not and the ones with the poor attitudes cars are probably on finance any way!

i am sorry to all the decent new age owners out there so please dont take offence and im not haveing ago at you.

ANYWAY back to the subject I have known councils spend more that that on a piece off modern art that looks like rubbish so spending that sort off money on something that in effect actually saved lifes and helped prevent another war seems a good thing.

Jamz3k

I'm sorry guys but i've been just being a wind up merchant today

I don't agree with spending the money on the Vulcan but can totally understand why people do

FYI Classic UK Turbo 2000 Scoobs are pure CHAV with there rusty back archs and broken suspension. Like the modern day Chavalier!

Jamz3k

actually my first car was a Nova 1.4 Luxe 5dr with.....RUSTY ARCHES

Jamz3k

as sad as it is, i'm actually a big Vauxhall fan and would have a SR/SRi/GSi tomorrow if i could find a good one at the right price! Hate Corsa's though

Jamz3k

I never quite worked out the LUXE part as it was a SHED on wheels

GC8

Silly.

GC8

Im well educated and very well-spoken Nathan (see what I did there?), so that makes a nonsense of your argument.

Leslie

As a matter of interest, do you feel the same way about the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight?

Les

Jamz3k

you tell me how you precieve i feel and i will tell you.

Leslie

I never make assumptions, it is a straight question.

Les

Jamz3k

Well since you quoted

"I don't agree with spending the money on the Vulcan but can totally understand why people do"

I that case no i don't as The Battle Of Britain Memorial is in appreciation of the Pilots who fought for us rather than the actually machinery they used.

Geezer

To be fair Les, Vulcan may have been a great thing to fly, and having seen one fly I agree they are a great thing to watch fly, they never actualy did anything that comes close to what the BOB boys did, so in that respect, I don't think it deserves the same place in history. Sorry.

Geezer

P.S. I do hope I get to see it fly again though!

The Zohan

IMHO the BoB is about the Men and Machines, not just the pilots, the groundcrews, all those involved in the Battle of Britian + some beautiful looking and sound aircraft. The Lancaster is of course not really much to do with the actual Battle of Britian itself more to do with crushing the Germans, their industry and will to fight.

Leslie

I can understand how you feel as well. Yes The BBMF does commemorate those who fought WW2 and risked their lives to save this country and others and that should never be forgotten.

The point I was making was that the Vulcan defended us as well very effectively during the Cold War. Had there been a nuclear attack on the West then all those associated with the aircraft would have been sent off on what they knew was a one way trip, and everyone would have done it without exception. The aircraft was a very large piece of the whole deterrent.

It also paid a very big part in saving the Falklands.

Apart from the outstanding design of a British aircraft, which is pretty impressive to see flying, it is worth remembering for the above.

Les

Jamz3k

I can totally understand that Les. as i was saying, I was just being argumentative.

Leslie

Les

j4ckos mate

it should be saved.

spider

iTrader: (1)

Much as I like the Vulcan, and appreciate its cold war presecence helped dissuade "the Reds", I'm not sure I agree with you Les about it being a major part of the Falklands effort.

From a "mental impact" on the Argenetinians, and a demonstration of getting things into service quickly, then fair enough, but the logistical nightmare of the Victors etc. required to get them there & back, not to mention the horrendous expenditure of fuel for little return (i.e.the lack of actual damage done) it wasn't as useful as more Harriers on site would have been.

john_s

iTrader: (1)

It wasn't just about the actual damage caused. It did lead the Argentine Air Force to pull their fast jets back to the mainland, so had quite an effect in that respect in terms of creating a safer environment for our troops, ships, and aircraft.

Turbo2

Disabling enemy runways must always be one of the nastiest attacks to carry out. Airfields are usually bristling with Anti-Aircraft missiles and guns and, unless it is a complete suprise attack, the enemy know exactly where the attacking aircraft will pass over. I think this is something that Tornado pilots found out in the first Gulf War, when trying to deliver the now obsolete JP233 anti-runway weapon. The Iraqi groundforces knew where to concentrate their fire so would just throw everything up at them into those few hundred feet directly above the runway in the hope that someone might get lucky. Fortunately, as far as I know, the Tornados always got through by the skin of their teeth. Whether the JP233 put the runways out of action I don't know, but Allied air-superiority was nigh-on 100% as Sadam tried to protect what he had left.

andys

You want to ask Mr Nichol is he got through by the skin of his teeth. Did not even release the ordinace as master arm was off.

john_s

iTrader: (1)

Weren't John Peters and John Nichol just using conventional bombs, not JP233?

andys

yep either 500 or 1000 lb

Leslie

The efforts involved in getting that Vulcan down to the Falklands and back were quite phenomenal. It meant getting inflight refuelling as you say organised in such a way that the refuellers had to be refuelled as well to enable them to get far enough south to refuel the Vulcan which was making the longest bombing raid ever in history. Try to imagine the organisation behind that!

It was an extremely long trip for the crew in an aircraft where there is not enough room to walk around and an ejection seat while you are sitting on a survival pack is a pretty uncomfortable spot for such a long time.

The defences were not well enough known about and the crew had to assume that it was a dangerous mission as well. It was also a difficult target in the middle of the night.

The fact that they managed to destroy the runway meant that the Argentinians were unable to use their attack aircraft from that airfield and that was a turning point for the war. It may not be generally known that the result of that war was very close and had they been able to use the airfield we may well have lost the war.

The attack also had a very strong effect on the Argentinian's morale in that they then knew they were no longer safe from strong aerial attack. This was a significant factor.

It is a mistake to belittle the efforts and results of the Vulcan crews in that war.

Les