I agree with much of what's been said here.

But to those who have "offs".. (especially multiple "offs") and halt sessions.. imagine what the day would be like if we all had one off each ? Unbearable (and very dangerous)

So perhaps, you guys should spare a thought for those of us who've spent good money to sit like lemons on the start straight waiting for you to be pulled out of the scenery.

 

ROFL!!!

Harj! I just "wannabe" like you!!!

The only tight hugging seats I've sat in with a race suit on have been competition car seats mate. (except when I'm feeling a little kinky!!)

David... Genuinely all in good heart mate, you're reading too much into it.

Cheers

Simon

 

Is it time for the Muppets yet???

 

It is now you've been here Dave T-S.

 

I did notice all these stains on Simons Race Suite while it was hanging on his wall now I wonder wot these stains are, other thing is when ever i mention this RS200 to Simon he keeps saying " I will suck your C**k if you let me come out with you" .

The bloke isn't all there you know, making sexual gestures to a male friend is Scoobynet like is it? LOL

When it comes to all this Banter, I don't give JohnF abuse I just slap his little head to take the shine away LOL

Shame none of these 2 nobbers can drive or they would have got somewhere in their sad dull lives, Simon should have been in the WRC and John should have been an F1 Driver. Now all they can do is watch it on TV and think about what could have been if Simon had not eaten all those Cream Cakes and if John had not spent all his time in ICQ

 

Ooooops!

Stef.

 

Gary, Stef

I think what John is trying to say is this...

YES - a track day is for driving faster than on the road.

BUT... going fast does NOT mean going off.

If you go off the track it means you made a mistake. If you go off the track regularly, it means you make lots of mistakes. If you make lots of mistakes, you are a bad driver. Simple as that.

Improving your driving should be about small bites of the cherry. Try increasing your speed through a bend by 1 MPH on each lap. I guarantee the people who would argue with this would be the people who would genuinely not be able to achieve this simple sounding task. I would also garantee that the people who go off would have a differing speed through that corner each and every time they negciated it.

A skilled driver can drive at a GENUIENLY safe and 100% controlled level and still be a damn site faster than a novice driver driving as fast as he possibly can. This means that the skilled driver will be faster anyway, and will DEFINITELY stay on the track, where as the mad plonker driving his nuts off will be knackered, slower and maybe injured before the end of a few laps!

I am geuniely frightened at the thought that someone we all know and love from this board will be killed or injured at a track day.

And what a shame it would be if this happened when they could have had more satisfaction, been faster, and learned more, by doing it the sensible way. the way that john, and countless other skilled drivers did it...

bit by bit.

All the best

Simon

 

I know my speedo is out stef, i go off the rev counter m8, like all good drivers do.

A good way of judgeing that you are actually improving your speed, and helps you build that speed steadily is to use the rev counter.

Take a look at the revs on exiting a corner at the same point each lap, that will usually show you that the corner speed you carried when it felt all on the limit and a little lairy is actually lower than when you take a smoother and calmer line.

The belgium grand prix last year really highlighted this, if you have a tape of the race, watch how smooth young jenson button was through the fast corners, he was very impresive. Then take a look at Ralf schumacker in the same car, he was very unstable in the fast stuff and a lot slower because of it.

Jenson definately has that special something, rather like prost in his style, he is going to blow them all away in a couple of years IMHO.

The secret to high speed driving on track is making everything flow in one continuous gentle control input after the other. I once listened to Jackie Stewart explaining all this to me, it changed my aproach completely. To be very quick you need to feel that every input is slow and deliberate and does not unsettle the car. If you drive in this manner and build your speed steadily you will give yourself far more spare mental capacity to deal with things around you. I can honestly say i dont think about the inputs i give the car, its all very natural and instinctive. That only comes from experience and building my speed up over many years progressing through from 998cc screemers to the current misile i drive right now.

I also learned more than i expected by spending the day with Don Palmer last year. I was doing most of what he suggested instinctively, i had never really thought about it though, just learned over many years of competitive driving.

I had a very bad accident in the wet a long time ago, and that had affected my wet weather driving, i knew that, as soon as i realised there was a specific course for this i booked myself on it.

The thing i learned most from it was understanding how to exploit the grip from the tyres to the maximum in the wet. I have a lovely photo of me in the 22B exiting lodge in the wet last year, it shows all 4 tyres under full load, with vertually no steering input. Doesnt look spectacular but to someone who understands where the speed comes from its pretty impresive.

Take your time to build your speed in stages, nibble at it bit by bit as simon explains, you will be astonished quite how capable you are if you use this aproach.

You wont look a hero though.

 

OK I didn't want to get involved in this thread as its most unfortunate what happened to the Lister car but Simon come on mate archive this thread will you!

It seems as though JohnF wants to keep writing Novels about track driving where as most of us just point and shoot to me when getting on track I let my Sub-conscious do it all and let the living side of me take in the scenery

To me a track day is allowing myself exploit the cars abilities in a safe controlled environment with having massive fun but when it comes down to technical knowledge of the track and to do's and not to do's I listen to the advice and it gets processed unlike some who just continue without a care in the world.

If I wanted to be a racing driver im sure I would have been one by now, but I don't see the point in this heated debate about driver skill what the car is showing Ive been told by quite a few of the passengers ive taken out that I can hold a normal conversation about the weather when im driving on track and still end up being one of the fastest even though its not about being fast is it John or Stef?

Just my little bit

Harj....

 

As someone who has yet to attend one of these track days I think I can offer an impartial view here.

I can see the point of the people who say that they want to push themselves hard to become better. At the end of the day we are talking a reasonable amount of money by the time you factor all the costs, so I can see the pull to go hard and fast early on.

BUT, the advice from Si (webbie sir! ) and John makes a lot of sense to me. Cummon guys, these guys have been around a longish time (sorry guys ), they know what they are talking about.

When I first got the scoob, it was such a culture shock to me once I started trying to push it a little. I found that it needed time to learn it, to understand why it was different to what I was used to (which was FWD of varing power). Now I can feel whats going on, and am probably approaching the point where to learn safely I need to go to a track. I can still get in any FWD car and push it to 95%, its just that to me they are easy to drive hard. Put me in RWD and Im lost, AWD and Im probably below average still.

I know for sure that once I start the track days then I will be hastling Si and John to take a few trips with me (if they are feeling brave) to help me move on. Anyone who would spurn their advice IMHO needs to be directed straight to the muppet zone

(no offence to the muppets of course )

robski

 

harj

We're not talking about being a racing driver... just talking about only pushing yourself to safe limits and not beyond.

cheers

Simon

 

sorry Harj, i'll limit my input to words of one silibul and make sure i dont type more than one sentance at a time in future, we will all learn so much from that aproach wont we.

 

It's a shame you boys have got to this level of sniping at each other.

Cos I know you all of you personally, and you're all top guys.

I reckon you need to go down the pub together and lighten up.

It's a serious subject alright, but surely we can conduct it in a civil + friendly manner.

 

David, my comments are half in jest, Harj never stops giving me a hard time about my "Novels". We are all mates here, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so if people are reading this as having a go at each other, thats not the way it is.

We are all just contributing to a healthy debate. I certainly dont read the comments here as having a go.

Then again, maybe i am just a thibk skinned northern git.

 

Someone slap David LOL

John we all know you can't say anything in 1 sentence so be quiet! a few of us know that John sits at home in his armchair playing on his Playstation with his wheel and **** pretending to me Mcrae and Button who he keeps fantasising and referring to

Simon you can go away too as on numerous occasions youve admitted to sit in your hugging tight armchair with your Race suite on Come on lads stop the wannabeing will ya.

Harj..(people say I drive like Schumacher LOL)

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by harj:
<B>(people say I drive like Schumacher LOL)[/quote]

Joel Schumacher, the film director, who can't drive for toffee.

 

John.
We all know how out your speedo is though!
Oh, and don't, give up.....'cos you have friends.

David.
I have actually only ever stopped two sessions, and neither was at an SIDC day.

Stef.

[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 30 January 2001).]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stef:
<B>David.
I have actually only ever stopped two sessions, and neither was at an SIDC day.
[/quote]

I wasn't referring to you ya chimp. (guilty conscience ? )

Last time @ Dono, the same Elise span 3 times, and the Dono before, a Blue MX5 span at least 4 times (once right in front of me, as the rest of the cars came barrelling in behind me with wheels locked up )

 

I was also on that session when the MY01 went off. It was not a nice sight to see. The pit was very hushed and concerned. I've read through the whole tread and I have taken every ones point's on board. This is my view on the whole situation.

It is not good to see any accident at any time. I'm glad they are OK. I nearly didn't go out again because of it but did another session before going home.

I attend these track days to have legal fun in a safe environment. I am not the fastest car. I don't pretend to be. I always keep an eye on my mirrors and if a faster convoy is approaching I let them pass. You should never try to keep up with any cars on the track as you might be in a standard turbo trying to keep up with a chipped, running slicks, full suspension mods, race instructor driven car. My goal of the day is to have fun, enjoy driving your car faster than normal and then driving home in your own car.

I agree that the standard of driving was not it's best. I was overtaken into corners a few times by the same car (DB 4 door M reg)and others and there were a lot of stoppages. But I still enjoyed the day. I drove to my pre-set limits so I had a margin of safety to hand if I needed it.

Just my thoughts...

Tim

 

It all comes down to driver education, something which we have been pushing for for the public roads.

I am sick to death of seeing people come out of the pits on a mission from god. Tyres cold, brakes cold, brain cold - spin spin spin. Seen it so many times and it just seems people have a point to prove once on the track. The fundamentals of safe, <B><I>considerate</I></B> driving are blatantly ignored.

I agree wholeheartedly with John F and also Mike@PD, they are completely right. This is a privately organised event where we use cars that we rely on for our day to day work also. We should NOT be driving at 101%, ever. It isn't a race, you aren't supposed to find your limits, because when you do, chances are you are facing the wrong way heading into the tyre wall.

What percentage of track drivers have insurance? 10%? 20%?

If you want a race you should bloody well get a license and get sponsorship, keep it out of my face and in the professional realm.

 

No wonder we keep lapping you Cem LOL

Calm down mate, newbies on track will all learn after their first time.

Keep it safe and loose the stickers mate

 

Cem

I wouldn't go on the track without insurance. I can't afford to loose £20k (who can!)

Tim

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by harj:
<B>No wonder we keep lapping you Cem LOL

Calm down mate, newbies on track will all learn after their first time.

Keep it safe and loose the stickers mate [/quote]

Oooh, you don't half hit below the belt! I only ever drive at 90% on the track, I brake earlier, go through slower and have more fun doing so because I am never near my limits. I hope I never have an occasion where I will need to eat my hat!

Point is, if you are a newbie, then you should drive like one and avoid pretending to be Senna. Track tuition is available in bundles and people should utilize this.

Oh and one more thing, stick to Dono, newbies. Its far easier, less demanding and safer too.

Cem

 

Cems last point about Dono is true and I started at Dono before my F1 Testing career LOL

Cem it looked like you were doing 20% of your cars capabilities mate not your own which is about 5% max of a newbie LOL

Always remember to MOVE OVER when im coming cus im large and wide! and I mean literally (to all Newbies) LOL

 

Why not suggest to the organisers that drivers who have more than 2 offs should be black flagged for the day?

e.g. the Elise/MX5 mentioned by DavidB above....why exactly weren't they thrown out?

Wannabe racing drivers on a trackday in road cars....no thanks.

Andy

 

At the RS owners club national day at silverstone, if you went off once you went home, no discusion.

Concentrated the mind somewhat.

 

read all the comments above:

not really encouraging for us who are new to it all and want to start.

is there a better way to seperate novices from experts - I'd like to try this but feel I would be putting myself and other track users in jeopardy if I go out in the middle of you lot.

my previous experience is limited to 10 or so laps of Knockhill and I drove round Spa FrancoChamps main road a few times...! I know my limitations and don't claim to be a good driver - however, I want to learn.

rapiddescent

 

I went off at silverstone and didn't go home. so did loads of others...think your talkin poooooo

 

My god this thread takes an age to read. Having only had one off before, (Due to breakdown of a Westie or Cat (cant remember) i have to say as a newbie the best place to learn about the rules etc, is Donnington, my training, as it has massive run offs and a wide track The marshalling is normally very good. As i said on Friday night to the guys at Chester Oulton Park down the baack near the trees is very slippy, give it respect, build your speed up, get an instructor, and enjoy your day.

Its not a race and if you want to push your car to the limits wait till late on in the day as normally a lot of people have gone, less cars on track, and by then you have a good idea of the limits.

At Oulton at 4.00pm their was hardly anyone on track, superb.

In closing i think this thread should be closed.

Happy Track Days People

C U all soon and nice to meet new people.

Matt

 

Rapiddescent

Try this