After I had an accident in my car, I thought I'd get various driver training, and go on the track as well.

I've never been on the track before, and this thread is enough to make me think that maybe I shouldn't go!!!

I don't care how good you believe you are, you could still be better. I guess I just don't want to be the one holding up people!!

It's amazing how quickly people forget that they were track virgins once! I bet sort of guys who get annoyed with slow people on the track, are the sort to swear at learner drivers on the road!!

We all have to start somewhere, and some of the attitudes shown here, have put me off from going on to the track completely!!

Andy

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Neil Smalley:
<B>Thus an experienced track hand could find themselves trundling around with the rest of the track newbies if badly behaved enough[/quote]

Would you want badly behaved drives and newbies on the track at the same time

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by webmaster:
<B>Gary, Stef

I am geuniely frightened at the thought that someone we all know and love from this board will be killed or injured at a track day.

Simon[/quote]


Simon
I think if this should happen it is most likely to happen on the road on one of the local get togethers not the track. I witnessed one very frightening incident a while back (I was in the car behind) where there was very nearly a head on between a Scoob and either a cyclist or pedestrians, I can't remember which. Rural road, GLF speed limit, no pavement on either side, Scoob doing in excess of the limit - that would make good headlines.......

There have also been other lucky incidents recently.

I'll also state I am just voicing my own opinion not criticising any individual in any way, shape or form whatsoever (details deliberately left vague).

 

Andy

You Sir... Are a total PRAT

The whole idea here is to surely to build an environment that people can:

A ENJOY and

B Learn from

Your attitude of get those stupid slow gits offa my track is totally untennable.

Why not get involved with the VSCC where you surely belong.. Coz your attitudes are PRE-HISTORIC. *whoops* Maybe you should be running in Vintage or Edwardian circles..

And I really do not care, How many years experience you have....

Oh and Next time hire the driver not the Bleedin Nav.. Coz he rolled it last time out

Track Days are a growing factor of the MotorSport industry..

GET USED TO IT...

So I humbly suggest you either keep paying for driving tips from Navigators or hire your own track time and not become a potential liability to others.


Richard

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>I would be mortified if a driver overtook me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and if that's not a case of SAD ego overun I really do not know what is

Richard

 

I have to admit the benefit of having instructors and/or experianced drivers in with you on track can never be over-estimated.

I have done 5 track days now, and have had a instructor in everytime early on and found it invaluable.

At Oulton Park, I grabbed RobMac straight after the familiarisation laps, and he sat in for 12 laps or so. The difference was staggering. The lines, speeds, throttle application but most of all, what tree/sign/letter/etc to aim for through and exiting each corner was fantastic, and made me get *so* much more out of the day. AND unlike most instructors I have been out with, his instruction was fun, he pushed me, criticised me and praised me.

Then later in the day, I had a good friend as passenger who has done Oulton Park 60+ times, cars and bikes. He was able to 'coach' me round the circuit, pushing me harder, reminding me and further developing what Rob has taught me. Again the difference it made was fantastic (although the speeds he pushed me to round Shell Oils caused many a grimace - but always led to a grin )

BIG BIG thanks go to Rob and Stuart for making a good (birth)day a great one.

My advice is get an instructor/experianced driver to go round with you early, but if you can go round with them again later, when you know the track, and your car on that track better, you will get *so* much more out of the day!!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>My advice is get an instructor/experianced driver to go round with you early, but if you can go round with them again later, when you know the track, and your car on that track better, you will get *so* much more out of the day<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never a truer word said...

Richard

 

Stef,

Before you get sticky pete to knock up some unremovable stickers, how about just a traditional magnetic L plate for track newbies! If you remember the damn stickers you have to put on your car at Dono it takes ages to get the bloomin things off!!

Just a thought
Nito

 

First track day I ever did, had only 30 mins tuition with an instructor.

Is the most invaluable 30 mins track time you will ever have.

Also, when I 1st started tracckdays, it seemed compulsory to go round with an instructor for a few laps if you hadn't done the circuit - is this still the case? Again, that helps an awful lot.

For a novice, certain driving "styles" could put you off trackdays forever - it can be very intimidating. I remember a certain pillock in a yellow Type R virtually barging my wife outta the way in Donington - now she doesn't want to drive there

I think the stickers is the best way to go - and Stef being Stef, I doubt if it will get Bureacratic.

Johns idead may be naff, but think that's spot on too........a little arrow could work wonders.

And for persistent offenders/bad drivers etc, maybe a 3 strikes and you're out type thing?

 

Stickers ???!?!???!?!?!?!? On my Scoob ?????????



Err, no. I think you'll find DBM or P1 owners running screaming at the idea of stickers on crap paint!

The plain yellow numberplate with a black taped cross on it sounds ok.

What about a reflective taped cross on the rear screen? (Not obscuring vision) ?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by NITO:
<B>
Before you get sticky pete to knock up some unremovable stickers, how about just a traditional magnetic L plate for track newbies! Nito[/quote]

Magnetic plates are no good on our lightweight hairdressers cars (Lotus) - Still in the SIDC !

 

oops..forgot about you plastic tub owners

Trust you to be difficult! How about flying an L flag from your aerial mast...do you have one of those on the Lotus??

Nito

 

There is absolutley nothing wrong with stickers. If you get the same type that I had/have on my car, they are a doddle to take off and are very sympathetic with paintwork.

Magnetic strips? Are you all mad?

Imagine one of them flying off at 100MPH into the car behind!

The stickers I have on front and on side windows and on spoiler come off with warm water like a knife thru butter


This is great, we are taking steps to help each other to be better drivers initially on track, which we can then take on to the real road (law permitting, off course)

[This message has been edited by Blow Dog (edited 01 February 2001).]

 

So what’s going on then in this thread then?

Rsquire I agree.

No matter what you do or how you do it there will always be someone better than you, this is true of all sports.

CraigH, got your L-plate sorted then M8, he he he, Stef will need one as well, he he he.

I do think the idea of organising groups is good, for the drivers involved. But be wary of elitism and increasing the competition factor, it may have strange effects on some people.

 

Blowdog...that looks awesome mate!

Nito

 

Cem...I think I'll bring a jug of warm water, a J and a B with me next trackday for a laugh

 

Man this thread is for ever.

1) It would be an excellent idea for newbies to have the first hour on track, following an instructor gently building up speed.

2) Ability sessions help, 20 mins newbies, 20 mins semi novices, 20 mins experienced drivers.

I know the first point would be frustrating for those who are regulars, but at the end of the day it is NON-COMPETITIVE, and i am all for helping others enjoy their machinery. OH UH Missus

I only started last year and have to say this thread would would have put me off, all Newbies out there, let me reasure you it is in general a friendly atmosphere, and you will have a smile on your face afterwards.

As david said we need to be careful this does not turn into some Labour Goverment discussion, over an single accident at Oulton, which is a tricky circuit in the damp.

From a person who loves the thrill and atmosphere from track days. Matt

PS:- I am not the fastest but would be quite happy to show people the lines on track for Track days or take passengers out.

 

Tim.
The SIDC does not want to run sessions at it's events, as this generally means that people try and stay out for the whole session when they or their car may not be up to the task. An open pit lane helps greatly to remove this urge.

David.
I don't think identifying 'newbies' is leading towards bureaucracy. I agree that the fact someone has done lots of track days does not mean they are a safer driver on the track, in fact it's often the opposite. I would even go as far as to say that the worse offenders as far as overtaking is concerned are often people that do have track experience. At most events I have attended it is not the new people that have held me up, but the people who are for whatever reason unwilling to let anyone pass.
I for one would like to think that my eitiquette is of a reasonably high standard. I never knowingly hold anybody up and I am patient when caught in traffic (most of the time! ). It is only on the occasions that I have just mentioned when I, and probably most other people get frustrated.
I think if we help the novices build their confidence and have a quiet word with those that clearly flout the rules then things will greatly improve.
I guess we'll soon see.

Stef.

 

The problem with trackdays appears to be the same as road driving. That is -I'm driving as fast as is safe/controllable/sane. Therefore if you overtake me you must be unsafe/uncontrollable or insane.
However if the loony that had just got out of the car that blew you off, smiled and introduced himself as Herr Schumacher, then of course, everyone would accept that he was not suffering from any of the above afflictions and was just better than them.

I can't see why folks are moaning about being overtaken etc. They evidently havn't been aware of a faster car approaching, and therefore demonstrating their lack of awareness. They are so tied up concentrating at their level of aptitude that they cannot appreciate a driver possessing a higher level of skill.This takes them by surprise.

Don't whinge at the fast drivers, educate the slower ones. Help them keep up. I would be mortified if a driver overtook me. Not because he was faster, but because he was more skillful. I would want to be as skillfull and accomplished as that driver.
Thats why in the past I have hired an airfield and Nicky Grist to hone my techniques.

In essence, be humble-learn not moan.

 

Andy.
That's exactly what we're trying to get people to do.

Stef.
PS I must have missed seeing you on track at Oulton. Were you the rally driver chap that joined in the afternoon?
PS The bus from your pedestal will be arriving in 5 mins!!


[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 01 February 2001).]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Blow Dog:
<B>There is absolutley nothing wrong with stickers. If you get the same type that I had/have on my car, they are a doddle to take off and are very sympathetic with paintwork.

Magnetic strips? Are you all mad?

Imagine one of them flying off at 100MPH into the car behind!

The stickers I have on front and on side windows and on spoiler come off with warm water like a knife thru butter


This is great, we are taking steps to help each other to be better drivers initially on track, which we can then take on to the real road (law permitting, off course)

[This message has been edited by Blow Dog (edited 01 February 2001).][/quote]

CEM
You need to get some mirrored stickers made up M8 - otherwise the person you come up to overtake is going to look in his rear view mirror and be thinking - WHO THE HELL IS GODWOLB????



[This message has been edited by Dave T-S (edited 01 February 2001).]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by johnfelstead:
<B>Sounds good to me Stef.

Why dont we use what is used in MSA race meetings, you can't miss them.

It's very simple. Have a bright yellow background with a black cross on it. If we make this say half the size of a standard rear number plate, have it sticky back plastic blue peter style then people can just stick it on the number plate for the day. Easy peasy.

I know this sounds a bit naff, but hows about a small sticker that you can give the newbies to apply to there dash under the rev counter. It would simply have an arrow pointing right, just as a reminder that if someone aproaches from behind to move to the right.

If you've got someone who is a little flustered, there is nothing better than a quick and easy visual aid to calm things down.[/quote]

RMA track days have something similar, but also all cars on track have to have a sticker with an arrow pointing to the left on the rear window (or wherever) to indicate which side to pass. The also makes sure all drivers are aware which side they will be passed.

All cars also have a number on front and rear screens for easier marshalling etc!!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GaryC:
<B>
All cars also have a number on front and rear screens for easier marshalling etc!!
[/quote]

Great idea for Scooby days, where they all look alike (to the untrained eye)

 

Havnt you lot dragged this one on for long enough!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>It's amazing how quickly people forget that they were track virgins once! I bet sort of guys who get annoyed with slow people on the track, are the sort to swear at learner drivers on the road!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Andy, i dont get anoyed with people going slowly, i actually have a lot of respect for them because they have the guts to go on track and learn at a steady pace rather than trying to be a hero.

The problem isnt slow drivers, the problem is people who dont listen in the briefings, or dont understand the briefing fully yet say nothing because they are embarassed.

It really pisses me off when i come up behind someone who isnt deliberately holding me up, but simply dont know what to do, because this means they have gone on track in the full knowledge they dont know what the rules are. These people are more of a danger than the arrogant idiot who won't move over. I dont really suffer from the latter too much in the westfield because they seem to move over as i aproach. The former though are a real pain in the ***.

We really must help educate these guys, make it totally clear what the rules are before they hit the circuit

Thats why i feel its very important that the SIDC makes a briefing sheet to hand out at the briefing to every driver. This needs to have some very simple diagrams on it and a few words about the track rules.

sticky plastic on the number plate will peal off easy and wont go near the paint.

Arron, shut your gob mate. Get your heap on the track and show us how its done.

Then again, not sure SIDC wants a rusty Impreza letting the image down.

 

What happens if you have a mikeR on track - blitzing down the straights but not carrying the same speed round the corners. It could be argued that as a whole he is slowing down your lap times but you just cant get by becuase of his power down the straight. Is he called a naughty boy for not letting you by even if he is on the right hand side of the track?

Martin

PS - no disrespect meant to mikes driving just an example I was wondering about

 

Dear RSQuire or Richard. I'm actually not a total prat at all. If you had taken the trouble to understand my meaning, I would be mortified if I was overtaken because I patently had much to learn. Perhaps mortified was the wrong word, perhaps disapointed would have been better.

Engage brain before opening wide gob!

 

Never happens, mikes a good lad and knows when to get out of my way. LOL

Seriously though, this can be a problem, basically it just needs a bit of common sense aplying, if the guy is catching you up mid corner then he is faster than you so even if you can leave them on the straights you should just move over, back off and let them pass.

That way all are happy because you dont have this guy up your *** in the corners and he/she can get on with exploiting the advantages of there car.

If its a very close match lap time wise then one of the 2 has to make a decision to back off a while and make some space, simple isnt it.

Track driving is all about applying some common sense, its not rocket science.

 

I think the stickers are a good idea in principal, but I'm guessing that in the actual overtaking, cornering, getting it all wrong at the knickerbox or whatever you call it, the practical use of a sticker will be limited. I'm not intending to 'dis' the idea (Well, I spose I am really), but I'm just thinking that maybe a simple rule like:

"If theres a car behind you for more than 20(ish?) seconds, on the next straight, indecate right, wait for at least 2-3 flashes, and 'let off' the pedal for a few seconds to the let the faster car / driver pass."

I just think arsing about with stckers in the morning reminds me of a weight watches class, not that I've been... mind you I'm a bit of a fat b*stard, could probably do with a few sessions right?

OR:

(VIZ TOP TIP)

You could just have a large sticker on the back of total amaters like me saying

"***DANGER - *******"

stuck on the back.

alternately, if its that 'Crazy Turbo Nutter Westie' chap, just hold youre line (Or hold onto youre ****) for a few seconds and he'll be around you by the time you've spotted him anyway, usually acompanied by you're passenger uttering "What the f*ck was that yellow thing??"

I'll just get my coat...

Paul F.
///M'ster. FIXED!!!
£850 :-(

 

We seem to have the same views on life and trackdays John, which with my background is not surprising.

I have a pic of Scooby MK11 upside down at lodge if you do not get one.

tut