<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by johnfelstead:
<B>The problem isnt slow drivers, the problem is people who dont listen in the briefings, or dont understand the briefing fully yet say nothing because they are embarassed.

It really pisses me off when i come up behind someone who isnt deliberately holding me up, but simply dont know what to do, because this means they have gone on track in the full knowledge they dont know what the rules are. These people are more of a danger than the arrogant idiot who won't move over. [/quote]

Couldnt of put it better myself.

 

David...I was right behind you and about to overtake when Steve spun off. I thought it was actually the most likely part of the track for a spin off, as it was very deceptive, dark, and hard to see the road surface. I also had two Scoobys that went off in front of me there. I put the tail out trying to pass someone before the pit straight, but just caught it.

Had the sweats all day over losing it when clipping the left hand Armco and turning into the pit straight, but it was a lovely section.

tut

 

John

I was right behind you. You pointed to the right at him several times to get him to move over, but he took no notice. You finally overtook him on the right, with me behind you. Twas a sonic blue job.

He did exactly the same to me again the next time out. However, I think he was just oblivious to anything that was going on, and not just being obstructive.

tut

 

Ok I am new on here, but that does not stop me saying what I think. I was behind John for the three laps that we were polite, and stayed behind the blue Scooby that was a mobile chicane, and could not have possibly looked in his mirrors. What surprised me was Johns patience. I would have given him half a lap before passing him either side.

It is not a girl guides outing, it is fast cars going around a race track as fast as they can. Nobody expects all cars to go around at the same pace. However we all have the same briefing, and one of the main points is use your mirrors, and if in doubt, move over to one side of the track, and let the faster cars go by.

This chap did exactly the same to me on the next session, however this time I let him know exactly what I thought, as I got his number.

tut

 

yep, i tried real hard to get this guy to understand. I know he didnt get it at all and i know he knew i was there because he put his left indicator on more than once whilst i was sat behind him.

He was simply a case of not understanding the rules, he had no bad intent at all, that i am sure of.

If he did it more than once though, you would think he had the intellegence to realise something was wrong and maybe ask for some advice?

I should have made more of a mental note of his reg and had a word after, i will if this happens again, not to slag him off but to offer advice.

 

Paul.
The stickers aren't for the newbies benefit as such, more to identify them to the experienced guys who will hopefully be more patient when/if they come up behind them.

John.
It was defnitey the same guy that held me up,as he also indicated left and only moved over to the right after several blue flags were waved at him.

I think we'll try it out at Donno and see what the day goes like.

Stef.

 

Andy....did not meet you on Saturday, but just spent 10 mins looking at this posting, and can not improve on it.

Exactly my own feelings.

tut (blue Elise N1 TUT)

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by tut:
<B>David...I was right behind you and about to overtake when Steve spun off[/quote]

I knew we weren't going to make it.. but figured my comments would only distract the driver more.. So I just clenched various parts of my anatomy and wished I owed lots of money to lost of people.

 

Wow,

haven't been able to read this thread for a few days (problems with the Internet connection at work!). Lots of very good ideas on here for improving safety at track days.

The system that has sort of developed at Knockhill is as follows:

Once someone books up, I send them out an info pack telling them when to get there, what to expect etc, and this includes a basic guide on track etiquette, the most important thing being to move out of the way when a faster car catches you up. The car behind may not be as fast in a straight line (eg some of the standard Elises), but can carry more speed through some of the twisty sections and be a few seconds per lap faster overall.

At the briefing, the instructor(s) and any experienced owners who are willing to give up some of their track time for the benefit of others are pointed out, and first timers encouraged to use their experience.

The cars are then sent out in groups (of about 12 to 15 cars) for a 5 minute warm-up/familiarisation session. These short sessions have owners generally grouped by experience, and lasting about 5 laps, give the regulars enough time to warm up their cars, tyres, and generally get a feel for general track conditions, and any changes made since their last visit. It gives first timers a general idea of where the track goes, and an idea of some of the lines to take.

If it's a half day session, we'll then run a beginners only session, where no experienced drivers are allowed on the track, and maximum use is made of instructors and experienced members. I'm careful to point out that the experienced members we use don't give any tuition as such, as we aren't qualified to do so, but merely take beginners around the track to highlight the basic lines, braking points, which gears to use for different sections, and also to look out for cars coming up from behind and to pull over and let them pass.

The 15 minute beginners session seems to be long enough for owners to get a good idea of where the track goes, and to have enough confidence to drive at a safe and sensible speed, and certainly not get in the way of most of the cars on the track.

After this, it is then an open pit lane, and what tends to happen is that the experienced owners go out, when the beginners come in. For the next 30 minutes, the mix of cars tends to be pretty much the same groups of cars as the warm-up groups (people generally only stay on track for a maximum of 10 minutes at a time, and then come in for 10). After this, most people have got at least 30 minutes track time behind them, and hopefully some laps with an instructor.

This system seems to have worked well to date, with only one car ever going off and causing damage (we have had a few spinners though), and about 3 red flags in two years worth of events.

I'd be happy to adpot any variation to this system, to make it even standard for all SIDC track events, and much better for all concerned

John

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by johnfelstead:
<B> Andy, i dont get anoyed with people going slowly, i actually have a lot of respect for them because they have the guts to go on track and learn at a steady pace rather than trying to be a hero.[/quote]

John,

I hope I didn't offend! I've not been to a trackday, just some of the stories people tell me, and what I've read on the BBS!!

My comments were not directed at you, or anyone in particular!!!

Just thinking out loud!
Andy

PS - After chatting to Mr. Brown, I feel more confident to embark on my first trackday!!! Cheers Dave!!!

 

Ok chaps,

What about the potential danger of having similar or different performance cars running on slicks or normal road tyres.

Slicks allow massive forces on cornering and braking and do not make the car go faster in a straight line. This would surely confuse people in front/behind and I always thought the idea of track days was road cars in a safe environment.

Learning the limit on good tarmac and slicks bears no resemblance to the use of normal tyres on a normal road.

Phil.

 

Driving on Slicks is not massively different to driving on road tyres, i find you can carry more speed out of the corners. Drivers who are behind i doubt get confused, i pull to the left lift off and let them pass.

Cut road tyres you can buy are equally as effective as slicks.




[This message has been edited by Type R (edited 02 February 2001).]

 

I think you'll find most people that use slicks will be fairly experienced anyway.

Stef.

 

I think you'll find about 4 seconds a lap on slicks. theres now way a road tyre can ever compete with a slick. Road tyres are designed to last thousands, slicks tens of miles!

 

BORED BORED BORED!

 

Interesting reading.

I joined SIDC last year and did a couple of track days. I was amazed at the lack of information pre and on the day (inc the RSOC day).

I like the idea from John of a briefing pack being sent out to all people who sign up.

Also I'd like to suggest that at the briefing some basic diagrams are used to explain cornering, and also talk about moving over.

I'm not convinced what newbie stickers will achieve.

I also think you need to drum home to all that if a car catches you up, the driver is clearly a better driver over a lap, even if you can blast away from him on the straight.

I take my track day seriously and gradually speed up, meaning I let people past early on. It's amazing how many people come blasting out of the pits, everything cold and eager to overtake. I just let them go.

Lastly I think you also need to consider track newbies, ie people who haven't been on that particular track before.

cheers,

Greg

 

Greg.
We do send out an info pack for all events, and most of this discussion is about considering the track newbies!

Stef.