Steve_PPP

iTrader: (3)

make undertaking legal, or get the traffic police to properly enforce lane discipline (with some kind of public media campaign to make everyone aware of the crackdown).

did nearly 3000 miles in the US a few years ago and everyone was undertaking there. Not sure if its legal or not in the individual states i went through, but it worked fine seemed that everyone drove better because they were aware of what was going on around them on both sides of the car!

Torquemada

Mmhmmm, people seem to be allergic to using their mirrors and or indicators in the UK.
Beemers used to be the worst for the manufacturers forgetting to fit indicators/mirrors but now Audi have gone all absent minded as well, or so it seems by the state of their drivers.
I can vouch for this personally, my pa has a nice new RS4, doesn't indicate and drives like a w@anker.
Then again, if a semi-truck wipes him out this year I might be in for some money

Leslie

I have to say that you have missed the points I was making completely. Perhaps you should try reading what i said again.

The whole reason that I say undertaking is dangerous is that overtaking on the left is illegal except under certain defined circumstances. Therefore, the man you are overtaking on the left is not expecting it and although he is used to checking for traffic overtaking on the right, he is unlikely to check on his left for a fast moving car overtaking him before changing to a lane on his left. Is it so difficult to understand that situation?

I am even capable of converting 130KPH to MPH. I have actually lived on the continent and understand driving over there in several countries.

Did you not notice that I said in my post that I advocate a higher speed limit on motorways in this country? I actually suggested 85 MPH or so, a whole 3 MPH at least more than you mention!

Why do you mention 75 MPH? Are you saying that it is safe to overtake on the left at 75 MPH? Do you feel you have a right to break the law anyway? Once again my point was that if the other bloke is doing 70 MPH, you do not have a legal right to overtake him whichever side you want to choose!

The fact that I suggested a motorway speed limit of 85 MPH or so negates the comment you made at the beginning and end of your post.

I wonder if you understand now what I said in my earlier post?

Les

oobyJu

iTrader: (2)

Make the car test a 2 part test, pt1 allows you to drive up to say 1100 or 1300cc and NOT on motorways, pt2 training to include motorway driving, not to mention weeding out all those who should never have been passed in the first place (my girl's mate passed with 24 faults, every trip an adventure). Then make everybody re-take a test every 5 years or so (inc. people who have a licence from another country and in the car you drive, that would get rid of all the women in big 4x4's), anyone who can afford to drive can afford that. Undertaking would then hopefully be unnecessary as the roads would be half empty, save millions on road widening, cut the death toll by lots (more saved millons), public transport would have to improve (still less on the roads) and let's face it, if you can't pass a test tomorrow in the car you drive day to day then you shouldn't be driving.
(undertaking is dangerous but unfortunately unavoidable in the UK, should only be allowed if >250bhp lol )

Will

There is another test that people who pass can take, its called a passplus.

My brother did it, he only drove something like 200 miles on a motorway and he got a certificate, and a bonus to him was that he got something knocked off his insurance, and to tell you the truth that the oly reason he did it.

And it is optional the passplus, but i think they should merge the passplus and practical test in to 1. If they stil do the passpluss that it.

m1cks

But the pass plus is optional. And as your brother, the only reason most people consider it is purely to reduce insurance premiums for new drivers. It would be a good scheme to have but only after driving for a year or so. What's the point of doing an advanced course shortly after passing your test when your skills are still far from developed. I doubt there is anyone who says they are as good a driver when they passed thier test as they are now, with the benefit of added experience.

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

On the contrary, it appears that you missed the point of my post - perhaps because I did not explain properly. I was trying to compare the difference between legal/illegal and unsafe, by using a comparison of motorway speeds that are legal in two very similar countries to show that just because in the UK 70MPH is the max, that does not automatically make 82 (which is the equivalient to 130KPH and the max in France) unsafe. This shows that you cannot simply say that just because something is illegal therefore it *is* unsafe at the sametime. An therefore this is a weak point in the argument and IMO should not be used as a winning point. I was not trying to show how one can pass at 70/75/82 in the inside.

You have kind of agreed on this point yourself ( - just because it's illegal it is not automatically unsafe), you advocate a higher motorway speed, this suggest that although currently 70 is the legal max in the UK you believe that 85 is safe.

If you believe that something is unsafe AND illegal, I would like to see examples, and as mentioned I drive on the M25 most days (5 years or so) with free flowing traffic and there are multiple examples of overtaking on the left (not just me!) and NO accidents or even any dodgy incidents that I have seen yet. I agreed that it is illegal, but it is not an unsafe manouvre such that people need to get the dogs out to hunt down the offending driver.

[-(o)-]

iTrader: (1)

I did Pass Plus many years ago and was well worth it. As for undertaking, with the standards of other drivers its not worth the risk.

Saying that if all else fails (like being stuck behind a 911 Turbo doing 65 in the outside lane of the M40 ) sometimes you have to.

Funny how standards of driving have slipped as Police have been replaced with Scamera Partnerships. Why have road safety when you can make money.

Leslie

I think we understand each other now

Yes I think that our motoway speed limit should be increased and I don't think that 85 or even 90 mph would be unsafe as a limit.

All the time that it is illegal in this country to overtake on the left except for defined cases, it is inherently unsafe to overtake someone on the left on the motorway at cruising speeds. The reason for that is that the driver is not expecting to be overtaken on the left by a significantly faster car and could easily decide to change to a left lane at just the wrong time. Pretty obvious of course. Yes he should check for traffic on his left but a faster car on his left could easily be unseen especially due to the blind spot in an external mirror and a dangerous situation would exist.

The fact that you see overtaking on the left on the M25 in free flowing traffic with no apparent problems may well be that since it happens so frequently(illegally however) people expect it and therefore are ready for it to happen. Traffic regularly using the M25 doubtless does so under different rules because of familiarity with the style of driving. That is very noticeable when you use the M25 or the M3 when approaching London from a different part of the country. The closer you get to London, the bigger the hurry everyone seems to be in!

Les