darms

iTrader: (5)

feel for ya mate, same happen to my MY00 last week

David @ API came to the rescue

Heretik

iTrader: (1)

Great experience of API - David and co. sorted out my sti for me when its bottom end went. Very quick, thorough, friendly and efficient service. Take advantage and uprate the engine whilst your at it. Good luck!

Benji554

iTrader: (18)

That's what i'm thinking. Might as well improve it while i'm there? How much would it be to get 2.5 short engine??

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Sorry mate, but a day off is a day off. Sorry to hear about your other car going down too. We do have a courtesy car..........

By the time a 2.5 is fitted and set up and running properly - the bill will start with a 5.

There'll be plenty jump on here that have done it for less and generally self made, self fit, cheap ones run like a bag of S*it.

Realistically, a professional company like us, cannot turn out one that runs the way home made ones do. The point is that IT WILL run up to 5 something eventually no matter what.

Talk to me on Monday or let me have a number where l can call you and we'll go through the options. I'm not making any comments about repair prices until then.

David APi 01926 614333

Benji554

iTrader: (18)

Yeah I hear what you are saying David. I'm keen to speak to you but unfortunately I'm off working aboad Sunday night for 3 weeks so I guess it will have to wait till i'm back. Thanks again.

Scoobydrive

Benj,

I am very sorry to hear that this has happened to you mate, this would seriously pi*s me off also. I have owed 3 Impreza's in the past between Turbos and Sti's and they were reliable but its had not to have doubts that something might go bang. I do like them and have been contemplating buying another but I am very slow to do so.
Regarding keeping a car standard, I dont for a sec agree that a car should let a big end go as a result of a few minor mods but I think suunyside up gets a bit of a raw deal(from others not you) here as based on the flat 4 engine, I thinks it a bit unfair to be having a go at him when he makes a suggestion of leaving them standard. To be fair to Subaru also there are some huge mileage standard Turbos/wrx/stis around also. Its just very hard to know where the issues lie.

scooby1doo1

iTrader: (7)

STEELERS 3K SCOOBYBITS 2K ALL IN

SunnySideUp

On the contrary, I have NOT changed my mind ..... Ali-B has me spot-on.

Point I am making is that there are voices on here who make claims that not disconnecting the CrankShaft Sensor will, in all likelihood destroy your Big End Bearings ............... I'm simply advising the OP to ask for these 'experts' to represent him in his claim for the Dealer to pay for the damage.

I'm sure that their time could be paid for and claimed back ...... I would also expect Subaru UK to represent themselves at such a hearing, with their 'experts' to state, quite clearly, their opinion is that disconnection of the sensor is not required.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

SSU, it's not a case of those that agree to the 'crank sensor disconnect' method as being "told you so", 'armchair experts' (which is what you're eluding to) - far from it. What's the beef with this anyway?... I suppose you 'require' an owner to first suffer a failure with the connector in place, before they can consider thelmselves to be 'qualified' to give out this advice to newbies?!

It's simply a case of documented stories of many owners' motors having let go after, or soon after, a service. AFAIC, this has happened too many times to owners for it not to be related - and this seems to be the view of many genuine experts of dealing with the EJ motor e.g. API David, to name but one.

So, with all that in mind, and when I get advised by the specailists that it's VERY ADVISABLE to do the '****' oil change method, then I've got more than enough motivation to folllow that procedure. As mentioned numerous times by numerous people, it can't do any harm and it COULD save you from an unnecessary expensive repair bill (plus all the inconvenience/heartache that goes with it).

To me, it's a no brainer. It's not as if you have to spend a stupid, disproportionate amount of time, or money, disconnecting the sensor before being in a position to do the '****' oil change, after all! It's hardly a really inconvenient sacrifice is it? (especially when you weigh up what you've got to potentailly lose/endure...)

All IMHO. Obviously.

nathanstone

2k + vat is most likely a rebuild with wrx internals, you would need to spend 3-3.5k if you want forged internals (rods and pistons).
If you just wanted to repair the fault (big end)
you could probably get it done for around 1600, but it really depends on the damage when they open it up. you'd only get the bearings, and crank replaced and not the rods and pistons. This info is based on me getting quotes for big end failure on mine! good luck mate

SunnySideUp

And ....... breathe ........

You will, of course, do as you think fit ..... that's fine by me.

What I object to, strongly, is the unproven statements that to fire the engine up after an Oil change without the **** (your word) removal of the sensor connector will, most probably, result in the Big Ends being destroyed.

That is a 'feeling' of some members .... and that's all it is, a 'feeling'.

The Main Dealers do not subscibe to it and neither do Subaru, lots of readers on here carry on changing their Oil in the same way as has always been the way for 100 years - in the same way as 99.9% of cars get changed ..... without disconnecting anything! Just fire her up!

Now, my 'feeling' is this .... and I am entitled to throw my opinion into the pot .... disconnecting ANY connector is NOT a good idea, especially in the engine bay of a vehicle. You have no idea whether you have weakened the connector, you have certainly removed one of it's rated dis-connects for an unproven reason. The risks associated with connector 'breaking and making' is well proven .... unlike the Big End Failure by not doing it.

Also, can it really be good for your Starter and Engine to churn, yes churn, the engine over at such a slow speed? My 'feeling' is that it is not.

As I have repeated, it is my opinion, my feeling and my belief that disconnecting the sensor is not required and may cause more risks than it is supposed to cure.

I, for one, will leave my connectors well alone and get the pressure up as fast as possible by firing the engine as nearly every single engine in the world does ..... the Boxer engine is not special, not weak, not in need of any pampering

I suspect that those who know will continue as I do, those who do not work in the Engineering field however may be scared into carrying out the extra step.

But, the non-**** side of the coin sometimes needs to be aired - thanks for allowing me to do so

Phew ..... I've written an essay like you did

I would be interested in knowing how many miles the OP did after the Service before the Big Ends started knocking ..... or how many weeks had gone by? We may be assuming, wrongly, that it happened very soon afterwards?

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Thanks for your permission.


I haven't - personally - said that it will DEFINITELY fail or is LIKELY to fail - just that it COULD fail (based on what I've read/heard/digested).. I just agree that, based on horror stories, I'm convinced that it could be the problem that causes it and, for me, it's something I'm not prepared to take lightly/have a 'cavalier' attitude towards. So, although it can't be proven as such, I'm not prepared to tell a newbie that it's fine not to do it the **** way. Makes sense to be as cautious as possible - it's the responsible thing to do, surely?

I agree that normally its not a good idea to disturb sensors if your car is running fine etc - 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' and all that... But in light of what I believe to be the possible flip side, I'd be happy to replace an £80 engine sensor, than potentially spend £££s on a rebuid. Simple rationalisation... for ME.


How do you know this? Anecdotal evidence would seem to suggest otherwise - just read through this thread's earlier posts. Speak to API David - he'll tell you all you need to know about the EJ's sensitivities and susceptibilities.

dj219957

loving the bit about the connectors Pete! ....throws a new angle on this argument.

maydew

iTrader: (9)

what difference is there from changing your oil and just starting it or leaving your car for say 2 days then just firing it up(without doin the crank sensor thing),in my opinion none what so ever as long oil filter is full.its not like the oil has to travel far been a flat design,if anythin i would say the turbo is the last to see any oil.

dont the wrx use a 5-30 oil any how which my p..s is thicker,so wouldnt have much issue with flow,


everytime i do an oil change i fill the oil filter until it cannot take any more

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Read through the thread - there's a couple of posts (one by API David) explaining this point...

maydew

iTrader: (9)

read it all over past few days ,my opinion still stands

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Got my threads muddled up - read post # 29 from API David, of the below thread:-

https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...-any-pics.html

maydew

iTrader: (9)

lol i was a little confused lol.....

but i still do debate what he says, as not matter what gravity will take over and correct me if i am wrong but the last time i changed a sump on an impreza the pick up pipe goes up ,how ever i would say after been stood or oil change there will be oil still in the pump itself,but oil will drain out the pick up pipe

my car has been parked up since friday and when i checked the oil this morning there was slightly higher reading than when its left over night parked in same place my garage .

SunnySideUp

I think the reasoning behind the warning is that there is air in the pick-up pipe ... air that may destroy your Big End Bearings ....... and it is my opinion (and that of Subaru) that it makes not one bit of difference.

Some say that a newbie may get misled into doing the Oil change my way and that is wrong ...... mine is the very same advice he would receive from his Main Dealer if he asked the Service Manager.

I'm sure that anyone thinking of doing their own servicing will read all they can and be old enough and intelligent enough to make their own decisions. Break and make connectors or do as the Main Dealers do I guess is the choice?

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Main dealers
Don't necessrilly really have any vested aftercare interest in their customers...Corporate target figures to reach and all that... "Another punter processed... payment taken... Next!"

Specialists
Normally are enthusiasts for the marque - so their knowledge will be passed to their workforce too. You get to know them after a few trips and delvelop a dialogue with them. Normally your repeat business is most welcome and they will typically pull out the stops to help you out in hours of need (as I've experienced with ZEN no less than 3 times, for example).

So are main dealers the be all and end all Doyen? Make your own minds up...

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

When you drain the oil, the pickup becomes exposed to the air.

When there's the correct oil level in the sump, the pickup is always submerged.

SunnySideUp

I have experienced some very good Main Dealers, who I am sure do take Customer Care most seriously.

Do you, for one moment, think that Subaru would allow them to do something which could cause a huge increase in warranty claims?

Imagine the scene for a moment .... 1,000 mile service .... Main Dealer omits to disconnect sensor, 10 miles later the Big Ends go bang. This happens on the majority of cars they service - Subaru are then paying £1500 each and everytime on Warranty Claims.

What do you think would have happened by now, if it was an issue?

Yes, Subaru would have made sure, absolutely, that the Oil Change would be followed by the disconnection of the sensor before starting ...... the simple fact that they haven't should speak volumes!

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Yeah, I understand that point.

But the cars that this happens to are, thankfully, in a small minority - and in conjuntion with it being impossible to prove, plus many punters' ignorance to the 'issue' - then it's very easy for them to dismiss and not honour a warranty claim anyhow. It's not an issue for them, regardless.

Of course, this is of no consolation to the unsuspecting punter.

SunnySideUp

OK, now we are getting somewhere ...... a small minority are affected.

0.001% seem reasonable? Of all boxer engined Subarus?

And out of those failures, about 99% are modified, that would stack up.

Therefore, 1% of 0.001% where it is an issue to owners who have standard cars?

That's 1 car for every 100,000 engines... and for that one owner it is certainly an issue - but, then you have to ask yourself if the Oil Change was actually the reason for failure in their case.

I guess it depends if you think that 1 is going to be you and you want to risk the very real dangers of messing with connectors?

That's about what it boils down to, in the final analysis.

hodgy0_2

For my 2 penny's worth I agree the SSUP and Maydew on this, I have always been led to believe that the greatest damage to a engine, specifically the big ends and main bearings is high load, at low speeds, precisely the conditions when churning the engine with hopefully a fully charged battery --- imagine the damage caused by doing it with a less than fully charge battery,

And why don’t you, if you subscribe to this theory, remove your spark plugs to release the compression and aid the spinning ---- mmm then the fuel injected into the bores can cause dilution of the oil and increase piston ring wear, so maybe you need to disconnect the injectors etc etc etc

I respect the view of the experts like API, but I will do it without disconnecting the crank sensor

I have change the oil in my Subaru 5 times this year having done over 20k miles, kiss of death but no problems so far

maydew

iTrader: (9)

lmao



this can go on and on to the death.....

goin off topic at little...
what about all these high spec cars running oil coolers either at the front or most seem to be running them placed where the top mount goes now correct me if i am wrong but the laws of physics say what goes up must come down lol lol, the pipes to thoses must empty over night

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

You're plucking numbers from the Ether. I just said small minority which - technically - could be as much as 49.999999% or less - who knows what the figures could be.

But the amount it may happen to is not in the argument... If it were proven that just ONE owner's engine could be prevented from failing by doing the crank sensor disconnect, then you feel that it wouldn't be worth offering them the advice, then?... Good job doctors don't take this approach...

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

SSU, it's patently obvious what we both subscribe to, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. No problem in that.

SunnySideUp

No problem at all

Maybe I just disagreed with you to see your wonderful avatar appear again and again?

We shall agree to disagree - goodnight to you.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

IIRC the oil modine, oil filter and the sandwich plate that most oil coolers use are downstream of the engine and the last in line on the route back to sump, so any air in there will not affect big ends, as long as there is sufficiant oil in the sump to cover the pickup pipe.