scooby L

Out of interest...what was the leaflet she was posting?

As it will effect my sympathy in this incident

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

Agreed, or simply have a wall mounted letterbox.

stilover

A couple years ago, my sister was attacked by an German Shepherd cross. She was walking her dog, when this dog attacked. First going for her dog, then her. Bit her hand.

This dog is not trained at all. It's attacked another bloke in the Village where she lives. The owner said sorry, but that she should have let the dogs fight.

First I had to be physically held back from going round his house and kicking the **** out of him. A) because he has no control over his dog. B) for attacking my sister. C) for his comments regarding she should let their dogs fight.

After I'd calmed down I went to the Police. I left opened mouths and angry.

Me - I'd like to report a dog attack please.
Cop. Did it bite you?
Me - No, my sister. Right through her hand.
Cop - Did you see it bite your sister
Me - No. I've just heard about it.
Cop - Go away then.

Even after I'd explained it was untrained, regarded as a "Hard" dog, and that it's attacked a human before, they still didn't want to know. Even my comments regarding next time it could be a child it attacks had little effect.

It was only when I practically forced my sister into the police station to make a statement did they do anything. Very litte though. Told the guy to keep his dog on a lead, get it trained, and on a muzzle. All of which he ignored after a week.

Devildog

Les,

I agree its a strange situation and the law (in Scotland at least) is unclear. Our dogs are extremenly unlikely to bite, but as I have said, our bitch had an issue with the letterbox when we first got her (aged 2)

Common sense suggests training or at least a cage on the door to catch the mail and avoid any issues. Or better still, an external letterbox.

I would doubt that having a letterbox is specifically in law an invitation for its use (you wouldn't want the neighbours parking on your driveway just cos its there ) but there is an expectation of course that its there for that purpose.

No one has raised the question about the legality of leaflet drops though. I;m probably wrong, but is there not a law which basically states only post office employees are supposed put mail through your letterbox?

mrs_b4

A few year's ago I was a courier and unfortunately it's just a hazard of the job I was once confronted by two rottie's on a pikey site very scary but it may be worth you and your missus with bandaged finger's going back to said place and explaining what has happened and ask them to get a proper external letterbox, you often find the owner's have no idea what their normally placid pooch can do. hope your missus is ok

Simon K

Hi

Having plenty of experience regarding dog bites, i.e. my dog has `bitten` a couple of people and I even got a 48 hr distruction notice from the poilce, wrongly !!!!!!!!!! So, I refused and fought it, and won ! :-), the law is rather grey regarding dog bites in private areas.

Now, the dog was at home, in his house, and therefore not in a public place, so the 2 dangerous dog acts, do not apply. So, the police cant do anything, as no laws were broken.

As for the sign outside, which there wasnt one, also doesnt apply, as you never went inside, you werent invited inside either, so again the owner only has to have a sign up if he intends to have people inside his house, so having no sign doesnt apply either as you werent invited in.

As a matter of interest, the type of sign you must have, is one stating dogs run freely, anything else, ie. dangerous dog etc, implys you know your dog is dangerous and are accepting the outcome if they bite.

The two dangerous dog acts are only regarding dogs in public places, but there are cases were owners have been prosecuted when dogs were in the back garden, side gate is open, biting people who popped round, as an open gate is now allowing your back garden to be public.

The various dog bites my dog has done, have all been at home, in a private arena, therefore down to the individual. Many dog bites are infact snaps, as the correct term for a dog bite is an impression of an upper and lower teeth marks !

All dogs are animals, are have it in them to bite and be a dog ! As much as dogs should be taught, humans need teaching in how to approach and handle dogs.

My two cases were more due to the person not knowing how to act with a dog, i.e. one got bitten when he leant down to stroke the dogs nose when he was eating his food ! The other one was drunk and got on all fours to greet him, just before I could get in and stop the idiot from doing it.

The last case was when a step daughter of my brother, came in and hugged him when he was sleeping, startled him away and snap, causing a tear of the skin on the forehead. Terrible accident, all 3 required hopstial visits, where now dog bites instantly get the police involved.

If this went to court, you would have it hard to win, as there's a certain case in law, which I cant remember, that refers to mail dropping, the status of letterboxes etc etc.

How do I know all this, well £1400 later, with a solisitor that just deals with dog bites, you learn a bit !

Also, out of interest, the 7th most dangerous dog in the UK is ........... a labrodor ! Also, statiscally, the girls aged between 7-10years old, are the most bitten, as they see the dog as a teddy and hung it, resulting in bites !

For me, I would say that your good lady wife had a nasty snap, i feel sorry for her, but legally she cant do much, as is a very grey area, put it down to experience and perhaps look at a different job. I hope she gets better soon.

SBK

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Yes and no

dunx

iTrader: (3)

That statement is FAR more worrying to me , than a dog in it's own house doing what almost any dog would do...

Smileys do not make a joke.... but I'm not going to get RC.

Sorry for your wife's pain, but left hand open, right hand shove. Easy !

dunx

Godspeed Brakes

iTrader: (259)

If you find it worrying , then dont ever try to bite my Mrs's fingers then


left hand open , right hand shove , left hand open , right hand shove , right I've got that , i'll pass it on ,

I didn't realise posting something through a letter box could be so difficult !


Apparently the dog wardens giving them a visit today as he says they should have some kind of warning on the house

davegtt

Lets be honest, you shouldnt need a warning anyway, you are delivering leaflets to houses, you should probably expect on ein every, say 15 will have a dog. I'll be ****ed if they all have a sign outside warning you. We shouldnt need instructions in this day and age to put something through a letter box.

spireite

Think your right there Dave , common sense tells you not to go poking your fingers through

al4x1

yep i feel sorry for the dog owner, they didn't want the junk mail didn't invite your wife to deliver it and certainly didn't ask her to wave her fingers through the letterbox in front of their dog. You could of course just sit back and accept she has a little blame and has learnt her lesson and won't stick her fingers through someones letterbox again.

What would she have done if the letterbox flap had sprung on her fingers? called the police and threatened to sue. This post sums up everything wrong with this country at the moment, people not being able to take any responsibility for their actions and just wanting to blame others.

If you can't shut your own dog in your own house without worrying about getting police visits and being sued its a sorry state of affairs. I'd lay a pound to a penny that had there been a sign on the gate she'd have still done the same thing, can't you get her a proper job probably working for the council where she will have a proper health and safety policy

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

I'm not really sure what the OP wants to be the outcome of this ???

OK, his wife got a nasty nip on her finger, but obviously not life threatening or particularly bad if the A and E dept didn't treat it as an emergency - so basically she's got a bit of a cut ? ( Funnily enough, I caught the end of my finger with a chisel the other week and dug a bit out of it - bled like crazy, but a bit of kitchen towel and a plaster and its good as new ).

You can get a tetanus jab from your GP now, so no need to go to a hospital for it.

Did your wife expect the police to run round and kill the dog ?, or maybe she was looking for some compensation ? Otherwise its no different than if she cut herself on something at home.

The dog wasn't attacking people in public, unrestrained by a careless owner, it was in its own house, behind a door ( which I suppose most people would think is enough of a barrier to keep a dog and the general public seperated ? )

FWIW if someone comes uninvited onto my private property, and something happens to them then tough - lesson learned is that if they weren't there in the first place, they wouldnt have anything to worry about.

paulr

A free leaflet delivery person maybe not be invited, but it is legal. If a milkman came onto your drive and fell into a hole, you could be liable. Free leaflet delivery, i'm not sure where the law stands. There may be an "expectation". You couldn't just have a 50ft hole in the drive and say if people fall into it, its tough luck.

Devildog

To be fair Ian's wife probably got a hell of a shock when it happened and would be understandably upset.

Ian's reaction of going round to the house, though, was somewhat of an overreaction, and had the potential to result in a far more serious outcome. What did you expect Ian?

And as for the 50 foot hole comment from Paul, if you had an adequate fence round it, what liability could there be? If he chooses to climb over the fence by way of a shortcut, and falls in, then more fool him.

Ian still hasn't answered the question of how his wife knew it was a Rottie. Did she know about the dog in advance? Was the door glass and she saw it sitting there? Did it stand at a window afterwards watching her?

I've had Rotties for years. Not sure I could recognise the breed by the feel of teeth on my finger through a 3 inch slot alone though

Like everything else in Scoobynet, there is more to this story I suspect than we are being told

davegtt

After being warned once, having the tips of her fingers mauled off, she went back for more attempting to stick her nose through the letterbox for a looksie at what this raging monster was.

jasey

Get the beast put down asap - nip a finger one day - eat a child the next.

Once they have a taste of blood there's no stopping these beasts

bugeyeandy

I'd tell her to chalk it down to experience and leave it at that, I delivered papers when I was a teenager and quickly learnt dogs treat posties and paperboys as fair game.

There was one house in particular where I could feel and hear the paper being shredded by the dog as soon as it started poking through the letterbox. Happened every day , i've no idea why they bothered getting one delivered

I never got nipped but I certainly never put my fingers through the letterbox of any house.

Devildog

nutter...

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

ian perhaps the owner of the dog should go round to your house tomorrow and see if your wife fancies chewing the end of a 12 bore for upsetting a dog locked behind its own door, in its own house, minding its own business!!!

Had you come to my house with the attitude you obviously had when you visited the owner you'd have been told to get lost in no uncertain terms.

I've a neighbour take issue with my dog recently. We have a half acre garden and at the bottom its backs onto some other houses. The owner of one of these houses came round and complained about the dog ( a rottie) his attitude was terrible.

They said he was getting out and scaring his kids which naturally I took seriously. I asked him if he's like to come through and show me where the dog was getting out. He said I dont want to go anywhere near that monster. I laughed at him and said he was being a tad over dramatic.

I investigated the fencing issue and it turns out the fence which is his by the way has been damaged by his kids coming into my garden to pinch the apples from our trees. I've also since actually videod the kids taunting the dog and kicking ***** at the fence in his direction.

I said I'd keep an eye on the dog but I'm not prepared to fix the fence as its his responsibility. I advised him if he was that pertrified of the dog then the problem was easily fixed.
He said he'd poison the dog (which is why i took exception to the earlier comment).
I politely advised him that would be the beginning of real problems and the dog would be the least of his worries

Had he not been a complete **** in the first place I'd have probably spent an afternoon fixing the fence for him.

My point is, people that moan and winge about dogs biting or growling or whatever when the dog is in its own territory have noone to blame but themselves.

jonny_693

iTrader: (5)

Sorry to hear about the wifes finger but I think this one should just be put down to an unfortunate incident. We live and learn. Part of me wonders what state the owners post is in!

Another part wants to borrow the dog to take the finger off the next 3rd world clothing collections deliverer.

spireite

Surprised you didn't land him a feker after threatening to poison your dog .

Torquemada

Poking fingers into letterboxes is a bit crazy anyway, my postie knows better than that as it seems that whoever fitted my door took the design for my letter box covers from that of a mantrap or something Forget the dog, this is like putting your fingers in a guillotine!

delcbr

regarding the op i bet you wished you never posted this thread now

mykp

on the subject of signs on the property would the OP's wife still have proceeded to post the leaflet, probably, yes!. How many of you have got "no canvasers, salesmen, etc" on the front door and still get people knocking? People ignore signs and carry on regardless.

vindaloo

Why do they not have a letters cage or similar fitted to their door?

J.

Godspeed Brakes

iTrader: (259)

No not really , I expected some stupid comments , glad to see I wasn't let down

I know it was a rottie as I seen it when the door was answered when I knocked it , which I did to have words with the owner , in my opinion the door should have at least have a sign on it , and should have a cage fitted on the inside.

For all I know the spotty little oik that came to the door could be encouraging the dog to attack the door without the parents knowing , perhaps they need educating to stop it from harming someone , what happens if someones young daughter or son went round with a christmas or birthday card and has there arm ripped off , is that as funny , and her own fault ? as that seems to be the case here , I have a black lab , and he's a big ****** , but if I saw him doing that I would take steps to either stop it , or stop him hurting someone by fitting a cage on my door , I love my dog to bits , but he would go if he attacked someone , unless it was someone breaking into my house , then yes it is fair game.but there again if I caught someone doing that the dog would be the least of there problems

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

This is the point a lot of members have picked up on Ian.

How do you know that the dogs instincts didn't tell it that when you Mrs put her hand through the letter box, that she wasn't trying to break in.

Does that make sense, as the dog surely can't distinguish what steps someone would take to breaking into a house. Certainly wouldn't have the brainpower to decipher a stranger's good intentions when all it (the dog) can see is a hand poking through a hole.

All IMHO

Godspeed Brakes

iTrader: (259)

well I think its then up to the owner to train it so it can , my dogs trained well , someone at the door doesnt bother him , when lazy sods who walk past my front window across my garden to go next door instead of walking round the path , then he barks

Simon K

Mmmm some good points here chaps :-)

Ian, your assumption that becuase your wife's finger got nipped, that the dog might possible maul a little girl / boy if ever invited round, therefore you must do something, is absolute cr4p. Total over reaction, and one that shows your not thinking logically, but are just over emotional about the subject, which is to be expected.

However, you mention how its fair game though if someone is breaking into your house, so seeing a hand go through a letter box, perhaps this dog thought........ fair game, what do u define as a breakin ? putting a hand through a letter box could imply your wife was perhaps looking for a key, or trying the door ? Therefore dog was just doing its job then ?

Al4x1 had such a good point, everyone else is to blame nowdays. Why cant you accept that your lady wife shouldnt of been posting crap through the dog ? So she got a nip, big deal, but now the dog warden has been called in. That visit will now be noted down on a register and that dog will be `marked`, for being a dog ! acting like a dog ! I dont blame you for seeing the owner, but if honest, if you'd knocked on my door, regardless of your point, if your attitude is similar to how you write, then it would of come to blows.

Also, your anger / worry comes becuase the dog was a Rotty, you instantly assume its dangerous. Ive got an Akita, which is a japanese version of a rotty. I wanted to get a rotty in the begining but know the public's perception isnt good, wrongly as they are lovely dogs. The press only ever report about big dogs bitting, never about the injurys a small one causes. Because some owners have big dogs dont instantly make them the guilty party, as when I walk mine, its always the little dogs snapping, barking, trying to fight, where as mine just ignores it.

I see little old ladys with small dogs that plainly over power them, snapping, barking, so in all honesty, arent they worse than bigger dogs ? Isnt that owner more irresponble than me ? A dog bite is bad whether from a big or small dog, so being in your `just in case the dog ever rips a girls arm off ` mood, you'd better walk around and tell off every owner !

Im not saying some owners are 4rsehole, no, tons are, and these types of people give the honest, good, responible ones like me and others on this board bad names. But, a dog, big or small is an animal, and you cant go mad when it acts like one !

If I was you, I would get your wife to find a new job, cant be much money in leaflet dropping anyway, normally a pikey job. So I would imagine you've got a few `daggsss` anyway, probably in your caravan + mitsubishi pajero, currently located on some local public field or supermarket car park.

Sure you werent dropping tarmac'ing leaflets ? hahaah

SBK