Oh Dear, Mr PoliceMan In A Little Bit More Trouble Than First Thought.
18 April 2009, 04:34 PM
#31
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Yes indeed. Next time we will just stand by and let them do what they want. Replace the battons with foam ones and replace CS gas with a water pistol. After all they had a right to protest and smash windows and disrupt Mr Tax Payer from going about his lawfull business.
So, if you wake up to find some burglar in your house, don't try and tackle him - you might hurt him
So, if you wake up to find some burglar in your house, don't try and tackle him - you might hurt him
But this guy wasn't a protester. He was just trying to get home after work. To use your words Mr Tax Payer going about his lawfull (sic) business.
dl
18 April 2009, 04:53 PM
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His route home took him away from the protest area.
I have seen the footage and he clearly wasn't getting out of the way like he had been asked, in fact he was walking slower & slower, pushing his hands into his pockets.
We will never know what was said by him or the police involved, but if I was a copper I wouldn't have wanted to take a chance that this nutter was going to pull a gun or do something else stupid.
Like I said earlier, the police can't do right for doing wrong - they are the ones in the line of fire & they are the ones that have to decide what to do - often in a split second.
18 April 2009, 05:14 PM
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I beg to differ - yes he was going home from work but took a detor INTO the protest to 'see what was going on.....'
His route home took him away from the protest area.
I have seen the footage and he clearly wasn't getting out of the way like he had been asked, in fact he was walking slower & slower, pushing his hands into his pockets.
We will never know what was said by him or the police involved, but if I was a copper I wouldn't have wanted to take a chance that this nutter was going to pull a gun or do something else stupid.
Like I said earlier, the police can't do right for doing wrong - they are the ones in the line of fire & they are the ones that have to decide what to do - often in a split second.
His route home took him away from the protest area.
I have seen the footage and he clearly wasn't getting out of the way like he had been asked, in fact he was walking slower & slower, pushing his hands into his pockets.
We will never know what was said by him or the police involved, but if I was a copper I wouldn't have wanted to take a chance that this nutter was going to pull a gun or do something else stupid.
Like I said earlier, the police can't do right for doing wrong - they are the ones in the line of fire & they are the ones that have to decide what to do - often in a split second.
May be you are right. I certainly don't know the details.
But being a nosey sod is light years away from lobbing bricks at RBS windows or copper's heads.
I think to say that the police might have been concerned that he had a gun is a bit ott. Half of the protesters looked dodgy enough to be carrying weapons
My thinking may be clouded by the fact that on this rare occasion I have some sympathy with the spirit of the protest as I feel strongly that the ordinary man in the street is being totally f,ucked by the government and big business like banks.
And I bet there a lot of coppers that feel the same!!
dl
Last edited by David Lock; 18 April 2009 at 05:17 PM.
18 April 2009, 05:33 PM
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Funny how as usual everything is being blamed on the police when all they were trying to do was maintain a bit of order. I certainly would not want their job.
How about have a few comments on the protesters, most of whom were supposedly demonstrating against the banks , yet by the look of most of them they were there purely to cause trouble
What about the scum that were smashing the windows and wrecking and stealing from inside the buildings with acts of wanton violence.
These are the people that caused the problems in the first place. They went along for a fight and got what they deserved.
As for that Fisher woman she was told to move away on more than one occasion yet continued to scream abuse at the policeman. She too, got what she deserved.
Its about time these so called demonstrators were dealt with by a heavy hand.
Chip
How about have a few comments on the protesters, most of whom were supposedly demonstrating against the banks , yet by the look of most of them they were there purely to cause trouble
What about the scum that were smashing the windows and wrecking and stealing from inside the buildings with acts of wanton violence.
These are the people that caused the problems in the first place. They went along for a fight and got what they deserved.
As for that Fisher woman she was told to move away on more than one occasion yet continued to scream abuse at the policeman. She too, got what she deserved.
Its about time these so called demonstrators were dealt with by a heavy hand.
Chip
18 April 2009, 05:37 PM
#35
hey why dont we issue the police with baloons to give the protestors. the police did a damm good job of keeping the peace that day, so the ****** protestors didnt create to much ****. if i had my way i would have flame throwered anyone in that crowd.
its bull ****, that woman was trying to incite the police, and the drunk guy, why didnt he just walk off? serves him right.
its bull ****, that woman was trying to incite the police, and the drunk guy, why didnt he just walk off? serves him right.
18 April 2009, 06:40 PM
#36
Felix.
Maybe you should have a good look at some of the video footage of the G20 "protests"? The police certainly took an awful lot, but seem reluctant to publish any of it (and don't forget, we, paid for all of that!)
Pretty much the only people being violent were the police themselves!!
The only exception was the soap-dodgers who broke into the RBS (but that is criminal damage, not violence). However the police were very conspicuous in their absence during that event - almost as if they wanted it to happen
I am amazed how civil the many thousands of people were who had been "kettled" for hours on end. Again, check out the video footage - i believe that there is a web-site called YouTube that can help out in that regard.
mb
Maybe you should have a good look at some of the video footage of the G20 "protests"? The police certainly took an awful lot, but seem reluctant to publish any of it (and don't forget, we, paid for all of that!)
Pretty much the only people being violent were the police themselves!!
The only exception was the soap-dodgers who broke into the RBS (but that is criminal damage, not violence). However the police were very conspicuous in their absence during that event - almost as if they wanted it to happen
I am amazed how civil the many thousands of people were who had been "kettled" for hours on end. Again, check out the video footage - i believe that there is a web-site called YouTube that can help out in that regard.
mb
How about the officer who was hit with a pole and was injured? And the people at the front line hurling barriers at the police.
The police can't & won't publish footage on YouTube - it’s all evidence and if you want us to act professionally then we are not turning this into an ‘outtake’ show.
The window being smashed at the bank - the police could not get anywhere near the people doing it. With both protesters and the media scrum around it. Or do you now want us to force our way through the crowds.
People being 'kettled'..? If you mean held in certain areas then what's wrong with that - we are trying to keep the streets of London open.
18 April 2009, 09:07 PM
#37
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How about the officer who was hit with a pole and was injured? And the people at the front line hurling barriers at the police.
The police can't & won't publish footage on YouTube - it’s all evidence and if you want us to act professionally then we are not turning this into an ‘outtake’ show.
The window being smashed at the bank - the police could not get anywhere near the people doing it. With both protesters and the media scrum around it. Or do you now want us to force our way through the crowds.
People being 'kettled'..? If you mean held in certain areas then what's wrong with that - we are trying to keep the streets of London open.
The police can't & won't publish footage on YouTube - it’s all evidence and if you want us to act professionally then we are not turning this into an ‘outtake’ show.
The window being smashed at the bank - the police could not get anywhere near the people doing it. With both protesters and the media scrum around it. Or do you now want us to force our way through the crowds.
People being 'kettled'..? If you mean held in certain areas then what's wrong with that - we are trying to keep the streets of London open.
In my experience I've learned that no matter what we (Plod) do someone will bitch about it.
Someone complains about speeding on a certain street. So we do a bit of traffic enforcement and we get moaned at for being '*****' and told to sort out 'real crime'
True story, see can't win
Typical knee-jerk reaction, rather than worry about waiting until the true facts are known lets vilify the coppers. Fine, next time things get a bit larey do the Police hesitate thinking, "Must be careful I might end up in the papers and can kiss good bye to my career." and jo public bleet Police are too soft.
Folks on here want to hang this cop because he's caught on camera pushing Thomlinson. What are the circs that lead to this?, Anyone know??......No!, so let IPCC do their job and remember the most important point of the British Justice system, he's innocent UNLESS evidence proves otherwise.
Last edited by Bonehead; 18 April 2009 at 09:09 PM.
18 April 2009, 09:26 PM
#38
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It was a City Police appointed pathologist who did the first, now, discredited autopsy
Ultimately no one is above the law, and if the Police don't agree with this basic principle we may aswell all pack up and go home
18 April 2009, 09:45 PM
#39
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The Police Video everything that will lead to a Conviction, outwards not inwards, the public had to Video this to highlight the Thuggary from the Police, this is not the first time some Thug in a Uniform have been caught, It has gone on for years and will continue until it is proven they are not above the Law that they are their to enforce.
18 April 2009, 11:59 PM
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Lots of large police officers in full riot gear coming towards you with dogs, batons drawn and shouting "get back"....
Do you:
a) run away, really really far away, like home maybe, watch it on the telly. Or if thats not much of a protest then get to the back of the protest line near the sane people.
b) walk upto them whilst eating the sandwiches your wife made you for lunch, when you get slapped you think back to option "a" but think, nah they must have the wrong person or something so with a "shocked" look on your face you walk back upto the same police officers who just b1tch slapped you.
c) think now is a perfect time to introduce your 12 year old son to his first protest, in fact just as the batons are starting to be hurled around... perfect.
I will take option "a" I think...
I think some people in the UK still need to understand the powers the police have in a riot situation.
Do you:
a) run away, really really far away, like home maybe, watch it on the telly. Or if thats not much of a protest then get to the back of the protest line near the sane people.
b) walk upto them whilst eating the sandwiches your wife made you for lunch, when you get slapped you think back to option "a" but think, nah they must have the wrong person or something so with a "shocked" look on your face you walk back upto the same police officers who just b1tch slapped you.
c) think now is a perfect time to introduce your 12 year old son to his first protest, in fact just as the batons are starting to be hurled around... perfect.
I will take option "a" I think...
I think some people in the UK still need to understand the powers the police have in a riot situation.
19 April 2009, 08:33 PM
#42
Lots of large police officers in full riot gear coming towards you with dogs, batons drawn and shouting "get back"....
Do you:
a) run away, really really far away, like home maybe, watch it on the telly. Or if thats not much of a protest then get to the back of the protest line near the sane people.
b) walk upto them whilst eating the sandwiches your wife made you for lunch, when you get slapped you think back to option "a" but think, nah they must have the wrong person or something so with a "shocked" look on your face you walk back upto the same police officers who just b1tch slapped you.
c) think now is a perfect time to introduce your 12 year old son to his first protest, in fact just as the batons are starting to be hurled around... perfect.
I will take option "a" I think...
I think some people in the UK still need to understand the powers the police have in a riot situation.
Do you:
a) run away, really really far away, like home maybe, watch it on the telly. Or if thats not much of a protest then get to the back of the protest line near the sane people.
b) walk upto them whilst eating the sandwiches your wife made you for lunch, when you get slapped you think back to option "a" but think, nah they must have the wrong person or something so with a "shocked" look on your face you walk back upto the same police officers who just b1tch slapped you.
c) think now is a perfect time to introduce your 12 year old son to his first protest, in fact just as the batons are starting to be hurled around... perfect.
I will take option "a" I think...
I think some people in the UK still need to understand the powers the police have in a riot situation.
19 April 2009, 10:12 PM
#43
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I hope the policeman gets proper fried on this. 
He was wrong to hit the man, even if the man was ignoring repeated warnings (just possibly if police did murmur something to him, to walk other way etc.). I have seen a shed loads of stuff on this by now. I can tell you that whatever tactics Police rightfully use in such situations, they can't be justified if thats what these tactics are.
Culprit may escape the manslaughter charge, but I hope he gets strict sentence over the assault charge.
Seen other stuff too, where a girl is being dragged etc. Dragging someone can be justified if someone is physically resisting the order or an arrest. But hitting that man who died seems well out of order. Egocentric maniac culprit is not fit to be a copper for doing what he did;. Even if the man didn't die, copper would have well deserved a strict sentence for unnecessary assault.
Yes, police do ok job, they do have a difficult job etc. etc. etc. But a lot of them act like Gods after putting their uniform on. They tend to forget that they are to act upon the law, and to enforce the law. They are not the law themselves. About time they get this message right.
He was wrong to hit the man, even if the man was ignoring repeated warnings (just possibly if police did murmur something to him, to walk other way etc.). I have seen a shed loads of stuff on this by now. I can tell you that whatever tactics Police rightfully use in such situations, they can't be justified if thats what these tactics are.
Culprit may escape the manslaughter charge, but I hope he gets strict sentence over the assault charge.
Seen other stuff too, where a girl is being dragged etc. Dragging someone can be justified if someone is physically resisting the order or an arrest. But hitting that man who died seems well out of order. Egocentric maniac culprit is not fit to be a copper for doing what he did;. Even if the man didn't die, copper would have well deserved a strict sentence for unnecessary assault.
Yes, police do ok job, they do have a difficult job etc. etc. etc. But a lot of them act like Gods after putting their uniform on. They tend to forget that they are to act upon the law, and to enforce the law. They are not the law themselves. About time they get this message right.
Last Updated: Sunday, 19 April 2009, 17:25 GMT- Search: G20 hardwick protests
The head of the police complaints watchdog will give evidence to the House of Commons concerning the policing of the G20 protests, it has been confirmed.
Nick Hardwick, chairman of the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), will appear before the Home Affairs Select Committee as the fallout surrounding allegations into the use of police force at the protests grows increasingly acrimonious.
Mr Hardwick said he had "serious concerns" about front-line supervision of officers at this month's demonstrations.
He also said police needed to remember that they were "servants, not masters" of the people.
The head of the police complaints watchdog will give evidence to the House of Commons concerning the policing of the G20 protests, it has been confirmed.
Nick Hardwick, chairman of the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), will appear before the Home Affairs Select Committee as the fallout surrounding allegations into the use of police force at the protests grows increasingly acrimonious.
Mr Hardwick said he had "serious concerns" about front-line supervision of officers at this month's demonstrations.
He also said police needed to remember that they were "servants, not masters" of the people.
Last edited by Turbohot; 19 April 2009 at 10:45 PM.
20 April 2009, 08:46 AM
#44
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20 April 2009, 09:36 AM
#45
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He also said police needed to remember that they were "servants, not masters" of the people.
They should be defending our right to protest, although unfortunately have become puppets able only to follow Big Brother's whims, sorry 'targets'. I've got the greatest respect for job the Police do, but when was the last time you saw any of them stand up against the politburo that lead them and say "No"?
20 April 2009, 09:46 AM
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They should be defending our right to protest, although unfortunately have become puppets able only to follow Big Brother's whims, sorry 'targets'. I've got the greatest respect for job the Police do, but when was the last time you saw any of them stand up against the politburo that lead them and say "No"?
Ultimately they enforce the rules WE decide we want. Thats how a democracy works.
If we dont like the laws, change the government, If we dont like the alternatives then start something we do like.
If it was a simple as saying No it would have been done.
And as for the tubthumper a few posts up, throwing around terms like Murder shows your lack of understanding more than anyone elses.
20 April 2009, 02:24 PM
#47
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Don't forget it wont be other piggys that decide what he get's charged with this time - once we have evidence of piggys misbehaving it's much harder to simply ignore it
20 April 2009, 02:44 PM
#48
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When we finally "discover" that he died as a direct result of having his spleen ruptured by piggy boy we'll see if he get's charged with murder or not.
Don't forget it wont be other piggys that decide what he get's charged with this time - once we have evidence of piggys misbehaving it's much harder to simply ignore it
Don't forget it wont be other piggys that decide what he get's charged with this time - once we have evidence of piggys misbehaving it's much harder to simply ignore it
20 April 2009, 03:12 PM
#49
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20 April 2009, 03:19 PM
#50
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People are warned not to go to the areas where protests are happening.
If you go to these areas then on your own head be it if you end up taking a beating from the cops.
Its very sad the chap died, he clearly didn't deserve to die - neither did the copper intend to kill him or really do him an damage. IMO he looks like he's having a pop at the copper after being told to move on. Copper shoves him, he hits the deck which triggers something that was probably going to go off anyway.
That silly little bint that has that leach of society Max Clifford egging her on. Shes mouthing off at the copper, shes protesting. What the bloody hell does she expect.
Its a f*cking joke. Theres a reason why your told not to go to these areas - if your not involved stay away - walking home from work? Wait or go another way. Didn't deserve a smack in the chops - don't mouth off the a geezer bigger than you with a badge.
Its hardly rocket science. Oh and nice to see the extensive tribute to the copper that got shot a few days ago.
If you go to these areas then on your own head be it if you end up taking a beating from the cops.
Its very sad the chap died, he clearly didn't deserve to die - neither did the copper intend to kill him or really do him an damage. IMO he looks like he's having a pop at the copper after being told to move on. Copper shoves him, he hits the deck which triggers something that was probably going to go off anyway.
That silly little bint that has that leach of society Max Clifford egging her on. Shes mouthing off at the copper, shes protesting. What the bloody hell does she expect.
Its a f*cking joke. Theres a reason why your told not to go to these areas - if your not involved stay away - walking home from work? Wait or go another way. Didn't deserve a smack in the chops - don't mouth off the a geezer bigger than you with a badge.
Its hardly rocket science. Oh and nice to see the extensive tribute to the copper that got shot a few days ago.
20 April 2009, 03:48 PM
#51
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It is, of course, entirely appropriate that an investigation is carried out when a member of the public dies after being involved with a physical exchange with the police. As a commentator in the press said today "they are public servants, not masters".
BUT it saddens me to see such sweeping vitriol directed at the UK police force as a whole. Whether this policeman's actions were reasonable/justified is YET to be determined, but irrespective of that outcome, to just call the entire UK force a "bunch of w*nkers" is nonsense and, frankly, bloody insulting to the majority to right-minded individuals who do a very difficult and thankless task for OUR benefit!
There are always bad apples in every barrel and, sure, there are instances where standards aren't met. Mistakes are made in the NHS fairly regularly and pointless bureaucracy and inefficiencies routinely exposed. Do we get threads saying: "NHS all a bunch of w*nkers" on the back of such mistakes? No, and nor should we.
Make no mistake, whilst the majority of g20 protesters were peaceful, there was a hardcore minority there under the guise of legitimate protest to basically behave like hooligans! We all saw the footage, and it happens at each one of these events. With these kind of individuals, just saying: "I say old chap, would you mind desisting" tends not be effective! That's not to say the police should use force ***** nilly, but sometimes it IS necessary. If things go wrong, the police are accountable for their actions just as we are.
I can't imagine the stick the average bobby must get in the course of their dealing with people who show intent to, or are breaking the law, and how difficult it must be to act with restraint and in a professional manner when things really kick off.
Hell, mods get enough stick from some people for just don't like being subject to moderation on an internet chat forum!
BUT it saddens me to see such sweeping vitriol directed at the UK police force as a whole. Whether this policeman's actions were reasonable/justified is YET to be determined, but irrespective of that outcome, to just call the entire UK force a "bunch of w*nkers" is nonsense and, frankly, bloody insulting to the majority to right-minded individuals who do a very difficult and thankless task for OUR benefit!
There are always bad apples in every barrel and, sure, there are instances where standards aren't met. Mistakes are made in the NHS fairly regularly and pointless bureaucracy and inefficiencies routinely exposed. Do we get threads saying: "NHS all a bunch of w*nkers" on the back of such mistakes? No, and nor should we.
Make no mistake, whilst the majority of g20 protesters were peaceful, there was a hardcore minority there under the guise of legitimate protest to basically behave like hooligans! We all saw the footage, and it happens at each one of these events. With these kind of individuals, just saying: "I say old chap, would you mind desisting" tends not be effective! That's not to say the police should use force ***** nilly, but sometimes it IS necessary. If things go wrong, the police are accountable for their actions just as we are.
I can't imagine the stick the average bobby must get in the course of their dealing with people who show intent to, or are breaking the law, and how difficult it must be to act with restraint and in a professional manner when things really kick off.
Hell, mods get enough stick from some people for just don't like being subject to moderation on an internet chat forum!
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 20 April 2009 at 03:52 PM.
20 April 2009, 04:48 PM
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20 April 2009, 05:28 PM
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When we finally "discover" that he died as a direct result of having his spleen ruptured by piggy boy we'll see if he get's charged with murder or not.
Don't forget it wont be other piggys that decide what he get's charged with this time - once we have evidence of piggys misbehaving it's much harder to simply ignore it
Don't forget it wont be other piggys that decide what he get's charged with this time - once we have evidence of piggys misbehaving it's much harder to simply ignore it
So Dr which part of your investigation equipped you with this information? Was it the same bit that taught you the definition of Murder?
Or are you just talking out of your backside because its easier to be corrected on a forum than actually bother reading a book or something.
But after all who needs facts to make an absolute point on the internet? Clearly not you for one.
Last edited by Timwinner; 20 April 2009 at 05:37 PM.
20 April 2009, 06:28 PM
#55
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riot no -- protest yes
The police default position, filtered through governmental paranoia, seems to treat all protests as riots in waiting,
This often becomes a self fulfilling prophecy
20 April 2009, 06:43 PM
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20 April 2009, 07:54 PM
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Look at that we have the actual coroner dealing with the case on this forum.... Thats a touch of luck.
So Dr which part of your investigation equipped you with this information? Was it the same bit that taught you the definition of Murder?
Or are you just talking out of your backside because its easier to be corrected on a forum than actually bother reading a book or something.
But after all who needs facts to make an absolute point on the internet? Clearly not you for one.
So Dr which part of your investigation equipped you with this information? Was it the same bit that taught you the definition of Murder?
Or are you just talking out of your backside because its easier to be corrected on a forum than actually bother reading a book or something.
But after all who needs facts to make an absolute point on the internet? Clearly not you for one.
The second post mortem suggests he died from internal bleeding - unlikely in my view to be caused by falling - much more likely to be caused by a blow with a blunt instrument - Further footage seems to suggest he wasn't pushed from behind - rather he was struck with a batton (YouTube - POLICE ASSAULT On Ian Tomlinson Striked With Batton Before Being Pushed).
If this is proved to be the case the pig involved should be charged with Murder - no doubt the independent pig commission will rather go for a charge of he was just trying to familiarise himself with the use of his new batton.
You keep your pig tinted spectacles on pal
Last edited by jasey; 20 April 2009 at 07:56 PM.
20 April 2009, 07:57 PM
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At least with the publicity the file with the IPCC won't get lost as my friends parents found when they were trying to take their case further after he was assaulted by the police. Let just say he was lucky to have been able to father children as it still makes me wince to this day after him telling me what got ripped open and needed stiches.
Yes its a hard job but you have to think that the level of force used was over the top. I'd have no issues with the police pushing people away or arresting them and issuing asbos for swearing at the police. The police generally do a good job but a number fo expectations are what people remember as we expect a good job to be done.
In my experience there are too many who want to play games ( lets see how many producers we can give one person in a week/day ), use thier position for things they should not ( fix my car for free from an ex friend of mine who worked for the Met and used his position to cover up a serious assault) and don't seem to care ( left injured by uninsured drive, case file lost and not followed up).
AllanB
Yes its a hard job but you have to think that the level of force used was over the top. I'd have no issues with the police pushing people away or arresting them and issuing asbos for swearing at the police. The police generally do a good job but a number fo expectations are what people remember as we expect a good job to be done.
In my experience there are too many who want to play games ( lets see how many producers we can give one person in a week/day ), use thier position for things they should not ( fix my car for free from an ex friend of mine who worked for the Met and used his position to cover up a serious assault) and don't seem to care ( left injured by uninsured drive, case file lost and not followed up).
AllanB
20 April 2009, 08:17 PM
#59
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The facts as we can clearly see are that a pig coward assaulted Thomlinson from behind and five minutes later he was dead.
The second post mortem suggests he died from internal bleeding - unlikely in my view to be caused by falling - much more likely to be caused by a blow with a blunt instrument - Further footage seems to suggest he wasn't pushed from behind - rather he was struck with a batton (YouTube - POLICE ASSAULT On Ian Tomlinson Striked With Batton Before Being Pushed).
If this is proved to be the case the pig involved should be charged with Murder - no doubt the independent pig commission will rather go for a charge of he was just trying to familiarise himself with the use of his new batton.
You keep your pig tinted spectacles on pal
The second post mortem suggests he died from internal bleeding - unlikely in my view to be caused by falling - much more likely to be caused by a blow with a blunt instrument - Further footage seems to suggest he wasn't pushed from behind - rather he was struck with a batton (YouTube - POLICE ASSAULT On Ian Tomlinson Striked With Batton Before Being Pushed).
If this is proved to be the case the pig involved should be charged with Murder - no doubt the independent pig commission will rather go for a charge of he was just trying to familiarise himself with the use of his new batton.
You keep your pig tinted spectacles on pal
Your funny, A bit thick but funny. How long until your old enough to drive?
20 April 2009, 08:19 PM
#60
My personal feeling is that if someone on the street hits me I will gouge his eyes out.... if a copper hits me unduly or in an OTT fashion then he/she will have their eyes torn out also......