Martin2005

What about all the 'facts' that don't support your one-eyed view of the world...surprise surprise you don't post those up.

Besides to you 'facts' are just usually some right wing bloggers opinion

Martin2005

You've confused me now, I thought you didn't believe all this AGW nonsense.

Are you saying my car is destroying the planet..if so your views are way more definitive on this issue than mine

Paul3446

I don't believe in it, which is why I'm comfortable with my choice of vehicle.

You on the other hand are convinced that driving 350bhp cars is causing MMGW, you are so worried about it that you come on here at every opportunity to preach about it, and yet you continue to drive one. You need to either put up, and buy an electric car, or shut up.

mrtheedge2u2

Martin, you just got f'd in the A! haha

Martin2005

What are you talking about?

Martin2005

You presume to know a lot about what i think

Are you deliberately misrepresenting what I've said or are you too thick to understand the meaning of the words 'open mind'?

mrtheedge2u2

It is a quote from my favourite hippie hating cartoon character..... it mean you just got served hahaha

Martin2005

OK if that makes you feel like a real man then yes you win

mrtheedge2u2

You just rolled over and gave in......... I have no respect for you



Are you french by any chance?

Tam the bam

Oh flightman, you made Tin Tin the daft yin MAD, he's gonna puke! Poor Tin Tin the treehugging pleboid!

Tin Tin Don't listen to Flightman he's a bad man! Go **** a tree and enjoy! Ya weirdo!

BlueBugEye

iTrader: (12)

Sorry to jump in with some educated science but........

Climate change is happening has happened and will continue to happen whatever we do - we had Ice ages and Deserts in the UK long before Man started burning anything. The next Ice age is overdue based on historical climatic records (about 50K yrs overdue).

Look at the relationship between deep ice cores (and ocean cores for that matter) and Milankovitch cycles (orbital forcing). It will get hotter, then we will have another ice age, mans influence on climate change (enhanced global warming) may make this change happen a few years earlier or later (that's a few years or seconds even in geological time).

As for the greenhouse effect we need it or else the Earth would be uninhabitable - there is an argument that we are increasing the amount of heat trapped by 'artificially' increasing the amount of greenhouse gas in the air. I don't have the figures to hand but try and find out what the most significant contributors to enhanced greenhouse effect are - Methane for one (cows and paddy fields)!

Yes we could reduce the amount of C02 produced by driving less polluting cars doing away with coal and gas fired power stations etc. but the fossil fuels will run out before any reductions could have an effect anyway.

My philosophy is to use as little energy as possible because it's f*&^%&g expensive!

Oh and the earth has been hotter with less greenhouse gasses than present, it's also been cooler with more so go figure!

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

I think this explains everything

jonc

So are you saying that your mind is open to the fact that global warming/climate change is not man-made is is just a part of Earth's natural cycle? Is that why you drive a highly polluting car? If you believe in AGW that would make you worse than those who don't since you preach on about how humans are causing catastrophic climate change and yet you're not doing all that you can to prevent it.

Paul3446

Neither, I am highlighting the fact that you're a hypocrite. You do not have an open mind on this subject, every time this subject is raised you are the loudest voice in the Al Gore camp.

If you were to say that you have sold your car and will now be taking public transport everywhere, I would say fair enough, good on you for backing up your convictions with actions. But you won't say that because it would impact on your cosy lifestyle too much. I wouldn't mind guessing that you go on foreign holidays too? Would that be correct, or do you just stay at home when you have a week off work? Can you confirm whether you live in a house that is completely carbon neutral? Or would that be a bit too much hassle for you?

You are so convinced that we can make a difference to the environment by doing these things and yet these are three basic steps that I'm pretty confident you don't have the ***** to take. Please advise me if I am wrong and I will apologise immediately.

Martin2005

Absolutely my mind is completely open on this...could the science be wrong, yes of course. Could the science be right well yes to that as well.

I think I'm being unfairly characterised here, if I was on a greenie forum then I would recoil just as much at their fundermentalist views as those shown on here.

The truth is no matter how much many of you claim to have 'facts', you just don't, you don't know for sure, so stop cliaming to do so.

There is absolutely nothing wrong or contradictory in what i've said, all I ask is that other open their mind to the possibility, afterall the consequences of you lot being wrong are far far more serious than the current wisdom being wrong

Martin2005

Can you not read?????

I don't know if AGW is real or not, neither do you, so stop carrying on like you have the answers

hodgy0_2

why dont we i.e. humans fix what we can/should be able to fix i.e. poverty, disease, access to clean water

and not try and fix things that we can't like climate change

Martin2005

Well I almost entirely agree with you, but for the last part of the statement, you don't know that we cannot change the environment, you cannot possibly know that for sure

The problem is whether climate change is man-made or not, it's effects are going to be worst in the poorest regions.

Paul3446

Well if you don't know if it's man made or not, the best thing to do is just sit there worrying about it and carry on burning up huge amounts of fossil fuels anyway, which is pretty much what you are doing.

For someone who doesn't have a clue whether this issue is man made or not, you seem to spend a large amount of your life trying to convince the less gullible amongst us that we are wrong. There's something quite odd about someone who admits he is clueless on a particular subject telling other people what they should be thinking.

Oh well, at least you are honest enough to admit you don't have a clue.

Paul3446

Quite an interesting article here about the truth of electric cars, please read it if you have an open mind, this doesn't apply to you Martin as obviously this is all just a conspiracy theory!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...really-is.html

The following excerpt sums up the lunacy of the current way of thinking:

"Mr Brown seems particularly excited by the idea that we should all drive electric cars, and inevitably everyone has been piling in to point out what a farce this is. Last year sales of all-electric cars in Britain fell to just 179. The Indian G-Wiz, much fancied by Mr Brown and Boris Johnson, costs up to £15,795 for a vehicle which can only travel rather slowly for 75 miles before its battery needs several hours of recharging.
Astonishingly, Mr Brown does not seem to have asked himself where all this planet-saving electricity is to come from. As Professor Stanley Fieldman explained in a letter in Friday's Daily Telegraph, it comes of course from the National Grid, 75 per cent powered by fossil fuels. Taking account of transmission losses, by the time the electricity gets to one of those 25,000 charging points Boris plans to provide all over London, its CO2 emissions would be nearly twice those of the equivalent amount of diesel."

BlueBugEye

iTrader: (12)

I applaud your argument, concise and to the point!

hodgy0_2

martin -- my central point is that it doesn't really matter -- for the record i believe the science is pretty clear human activity is playing a part in climate change (how much?? -- and I do think the arguement is being appropriated by ar3ehole politicians etc)

my point is I dont think we have the will/capability to do anything about it

I do alot of "green" stuff, not becuase I really believe it will change anything globally, its just the right thing to do in most situations.

hodgy0_2

maybe if we fixed the massive inequality in access to and use of the world resources

a nice by product would be to reduce humans impact on the environment

Leslie

Why do they now call it "climate change" as apposed to "Global Warming". Is it because the average annual global temperature has decreased in the last ten years?

We are still getting virtually no sunspots, maybe we are due for another Maunder Minimum. There was a mini ice age last time!

Les

MrRA

Hit the nail on the head so to speak.

rabbos

The climate is always changing, and has done since the formation of the earth 4 billion years ago. It is a constantly changing system, stirring liquids, gases and solids that have always been here in one mix or another. Like the NASA guy stated, one particular climate is not necessarily better than any other.

Regardless, you need to understand what society must do to bring about this 'ideal' climate before acting. For example environmental lobbyists brought about regulation on particulate emissions which correspondingly dropped in the years that followed. Everyone was pleased with themselves yet global warming started to accelerate on account of the extra sunlight which was previously absorbed by these particulates... Anyway it is clear that we don't know how it will pan out or how many thousands of years will pass before we understand the climate, so any act seems at best, like a wild stab in the dark.

The previous US administration had many ties to polluting companies, which lose money if they are forced to pollute less. So surprise surprise they will resist change as it hurts them in the wallet.

As for the current administration, their motives are unclear. However any tax which people gladly pay on account of feeling some kind of guilt, or the need to contribute in a minute way, is going to be a winner with modern governments

RA Dunk

Have you ever stood back and just thought full stop?

nah i didnt think so either

Martin2005

I was tempted to ignore this but I can't, I feel it needs treating with my full contempt.

Why is it we cannot have a sensible debate about a huge topic without complete morons (like you obviously) making stupid and pointless remarks. Have you actually got something useful to say on the thread or not.. or are you just playing childish games for the crowd????

Also why can I not have a moderate view on this subject without being attacked as some kind of Eco-Warrior, which is something I'm convinced says more about you lot than me....afterall I'm moderate and you think I'm an eco-warrior....WTF does that make you lot?????

The problem (as I see it) is cynicism has taken the place of healthy sceptism, not just on this but on most issues we discuss. We cannot have an issue where there is some kind of conspiracy at the heart, I'm a much bigger believer in '****-up' than conspiracy, in other words if you lot are right (and I hope you are), that doesn't mean we are dealing with some sort of multinational conspiracy, it probably just means they got it wrong...time will tell.

FlightMan

Said the Eco-warrior who drives a 350bhp gas guzzler.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

But an eco warrior that drives a gas guzzler surely balances out, becoming moderate overall

Unless they've remanipulated the 'records' again then doesn't CO2 lag global temperature? A bit like saying the smoke is the cause of fire? But of course its not as simple as that, which is why they simply tax us on CO2