Sanity really has broken out in the US
#31
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To 'clarify' the punctation so that Martin doesn't think I'm saying that open minds are bad. I meant that there is no need to look at what I posted with an open mind because I posted facts. Facts are just that, facts. They do not need an open mind to digest and take in. Clear???
Dave
Dave
Besides to you 'facts' are just usually some right wing bloggers opinion
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Are you saying my car is destroying the planet..if so your views are way more definitive on this issue than mine
#33
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I don't believe in it, which is why I'm comfortable with my choice of vehicle.
You on the other hand are convinced that driving 350bhp cars is causing MMGW, you are so worried about it that you come on here at every opportunity to preach about it, and yet you continue to drive one. You need to either put up, and buy an electric car, or shut up.
You on the other hand are convinced that driving 350bhp cars is causing MMGW, you are so worried about it that you come on here at every opportunity to preach about it, and yet you continue to drive one. You need to either put up, and buy an electric car, or shut up.
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I don't believe in it, which is why I'm comfortable with my choice of vehicle.
You on the other hand are convinced that driving 350bhp cars is causing MMGW, you are so worried about it that you come on here at every opportunity to preach about it, and yet you continue to drive one. You need to either put up, and buy an electric car, or shut up.
You on the other hand are convinced that driving 350bhp cars is causing MMGW, you are so worried about it that you come on here at every opportunity to preach about it, and yet you continue to drive one. You need to either put up, and buy an electric car, or shut up.
You presume to know a lot about what i think
Are you deliberately misrepresenting what I've said or are you too thick to understand the meaning of the words 'open mind'?
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Tin Tin Don't listen to Flightman he's a bad man! Go **** a tree and enjoy!
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Sorry to jump in with some educated science but........
Climate change is happening has happened and will continue to happen whatever we do - we had Ice ages and Deserts in the UK long before Man started burning anything. The next Ice age is overdue based on historical climatic records (about 50K yrs overdue).
Look at the relationship between deep ice cores (and ocean cores for that matter) and Milankovitch cycles (orbital forcing). It will get hotter, then we will have another ice age, mans influence on climate change (enhanced global warming) may make this change happen a few years earlier or later (that's a few years or seconds even in geological time).
As for the greenhouse effect we need it or else the Earth would be uninhabitable - there is an argument that we are increasing the amount of heat trapped by 'artificially' increasing the amount of greenhouse gas in the air. I don't have the figures to hand but try and find out what the most significant contributors to enhanced greenhouse effect are - Methane for one (cows and paddy fields)!
Yes we could reduce the amount of C02 produced by driving less polluting cars doing away with coal and gas fired power stations etc. but the fossil fuels will run out before any reductions could have an effect anyway.
My philosophy is to use as little energy as possible because it's f*&^%&g expensive!
Oh and the earth has been hotter with less greenhouse gasses than present, it's also been cooler with more so go figure!
Climate change is happening has happened and will continue to happen whatever we do - we had Ice ages and Deserts in the UK long before Man started burning anything. The next Ice age is overdue based on historical climatic records (about 50K yrs overdue).
Look at the relationship between deep ice cores (and ocean cores for that matter) and Milankovitch cycles (orbital forcing). It will get hotter, then we will have another ice age, mans influence on climate change (enhanced global warming) may make this change happen a few years earlier or later (that's a few years or seconds even in geological time).
As for the greenhouse effect we need it or else the Earth would be uninhabitable - there is an argument that we are increasing the amount of heat trapped by 'artificially' increasing the amount of greenhouse gas in the air. I don't have the figures to hand but try and find out what the most significant contributors to enhanced greenhouse effect are - Methane for one (cows and paddy fields)!
Yes we could reduce the amount of C02 produced by driving less polluting cars doing away with coal and gas fired power stations etc. but the fossil fuels will run out before any reductions could have an effect anyway.
My philosophy is to use as little energy as possible because it's f*&^%&g expensive!
Oh and the earth has been hotter with less greenhouse gasses than present, it's also been cooler with more so go figure!
#43
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So are you saying that your mind is open to the fact that global warming/climate change is not man-made is is just a part of Earth's natural cycle? Is that why you drive a highly polluting car? If you believe in AGW that would make you worse than those who don't since you preach on about how humans are causing catastrophic climate change and yet you're not doing all that you can to prevent it.
#44
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If you were to say that you have sold your car and will now be taking public transport everywhere, I would say fair enough, good on you for backing up your convictions with actions. But you won't say that because it would impact on your cosy lifestyle too much. I wouldn't mind guessing that you go on foreign holidays too? Would that be correct, or do you just stay at home when you have a week off work? Can you confirm whether you live in a house that is completely carbon neutral? Or would that be a bit too much hassle for you?
You are so convinced that we can make a difference to the environment by doing these things and yet these are three basic steps that I'm pretty confident you don't have the ***** to take. Please advise me if I am wrong and I will apologise immediately.
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So are you saying that your mind is open to the fact that global warming/climate change is not man-made is is just a part of Earth's natural cycle? Is that why you drive a highly polluting car? If you believe in AGW that would make you worse than those who don't since you preach on about how humans are causing catastrophic climate change and yet you're not doing all that you can to prevent it.
Absolutely my mind is completely open on this...could the science be wrong, yes of course. Could the science be right well yes to that as well.
I think I'm being unfairly characterised here, if I was on a greenie forum then I would recoil just as much at their fundermentalist views as those shown on here.
The truth is no matter how much many of you claim to have 'facts', you just don't, you don't know for sure, so stop cliaming to do so.
There is absolutely nothing wrong or contradictory in what i've said, all I ask is that other open their mind to the possibility, afterall the consequences of you lot being wrong are far far more serious than the current wisdom being wrong
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Neither, I am highlighting the fact that you're a hypocrite. You do not have an open mind on this subject, every time this subject is raised you are the loudest voice in the Al Gore camp.
If you were to say that you have sold your car and will now be taking public transport everywhere, I would say fair enough, good on you for backing up your convictions with actions. But you won't say that because it would impact on your cosy lifestyle too much. I wouldn't mind guessing that you go on foreign holidays too? Would that be correct, or do you just stay at home when you have a week off work? Can you confirm whether you live in a house that is completely carbon neutral? Or would that be a bit too much hassle for you?
You are so convinced that we can make a difference to the environment by doing these things and yet these are three basic steps that I'm pretty confident you don't have the ***** to take. Please advise me if I am wrong and I will apologise immediately.
If you were to say that you have sold your car and will now be taking public transport everywhere, I would say fair enough, good on you for backing up your convictions with actions. But you won't say that because it would impact on your cosy lifestyle too much. I wouldn't mind guessing that you go on foreign holidays too? Would that be correct, or do you just stay at home when you have a week off work? Can you confirm whether you live in a house that is completely carbon neutral? Or would that be a bit too much hassle for you?
You are so convinced that we can make a difference to the environment by doing these things and yet these are three basic steps that I'm pretty confident you don't have the ***** to take. Please advise me if I am wrong and I will apologise immediately.
Can you not read?????
I don't know if AGW is real or not, neither do you, so stop carrying on like you have the answers
Last edited by Martin2005; 19 April 2009 at 12:49 AM.
#47
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why dont we i.e. humans fix what we can/should be able to fix i.e. poverty, disease, access to clean water
and not try and fix things that we can't like climate change
and not try and fix things that we can't like climate change
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The problem is whether climate change is man-made or not, it's effects are going to be worst in the poorest regions.
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For someone who doesn't have a clue whether this issue is man made or not, you seem to spend a large amount of your life trying to convince the less gullible amongst us that we are wrong. There's something quite odd about someone who admits he is clueless on a particular subject telling other people what they should be thinking.
Oh well, at least you are honest enough to admit you don't have a clue.
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#50
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Quite an interesting article here about the truth of electric cars, please read it if you have an open mind, this doesn't apply to you Martin as obviously this is all just a conspiracy theory!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...really-is.html
The following excerpt sums up the lunacy of the current way of thinking:
"Mr Brown seems particularly excited by the idea that we should all drive electric cars, and inevitably everyone has been piling in to point out what a farce this is. Last year sales of all-electric cars in Britain fell to just 179. The Indian G-Wiz, much fancied by Mr Brown and Boris Johnson, costs up to £15,795 for a vehicle which can only travel rather slowly for 75 miles before its battery needs several hours of recharging.
Astonishingly, Mr Brown does not seem to have asked himself where all this planet-saving electricity is to come from. As Professor Stanley Fieldman explained in a letter in Friday's Daily Telegraph, it comes of course from the National Grid, 75 per cent powered by fossil fuels. Taking account of transmission losses, by the time the electricity gets to one of those 25,000 charging points Boris plans to provide all over London, its CO2 emissions would be nearly twice those of the equivalent amount of diesel."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...really-is.html
The following excerpt sums up the lunacy of the current way of thinking:
"Mr Brown seems particularly excited by the idea that we should all drive electric cars, and inevitably everyone has been piling in to point out what a farce this is. Last year sales of all-electric cars in Britain fell to just 179. The Indian G-Wiz, much fancied by Mr Brown and Boris Johnson, costs up to £15,795 for a vehicle which can only travel rather slowly for 75 miles before its battery needs several hours of recharging.
Astonishingly, Mr Brown does not seem to have asked himself where all this planet-saving electricity is to come from. As Professor Stanley Fieldman explained in a letter in Friday's Daily Telegraph, it comes of course from the National Grid, 75 per cent powered by fossil fuels. Taking account of transmission losses, by the time the electricity gets to one of those 25,000 charging points Boris plans to provide all over London, its CO2 emissions would be nearly twice those of the equivalent amount of diesel."
#52
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Well I almost entirely agree with you, but for the last part of the statement, you don't know that we cannot change the environment, you cannot possibly know that for sure
The problem is whether climate change is man-made or not, it's effects are going to be worst in the poorest regions.
The problem is whether climate change is man-made or not, it's effects are going to be worst in the poorest regions.
my point is I dont think we have the will/capability to do anything about it
I do alot of "green" stuff, not becuase I really believe it will change anything globally, its just the right thing to do in most situations.
#54
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Why do they now call it "climate change" as apposed to "Global Warming". Is it because the average annual global temperature has decreased in the last ten years?
We are still getting virtually no sunspots, maybe we are due for another Maunder Minimum. There was a mini ice age last time!
Les
We are still getting virtually no sunspots, maybe we are due for another Maunder Minimum. There was a mini ice age last time!
Les
#55
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Why do they now call it "climate change" as apposed to "Global Warming". Is it because the average annual global temperature has decreased in the last ten years?
We are still getting virtually no sunspots, maybe we are due for another Maunder Minimum. There was a mini ice age last time!
Les
We are still getting virtually no sunspots, maybe we are due for another Maunder Minimum. There was a mini ice age last time!
Les
#56
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Well thats are surprising response....NOT
Have you ever stood back and thought maybe, just maybe there might be something to all the climate change stuff.
Have you ever stood back and thought maybe this is a much bigger issue than the short term economic crisis
Have you ever stood back and thought the the US government under Bush spent an awful long time trying to deny the science..why do you think that was?
Have you ever stood back and thought that the reason the US government are reacting to this is because they believe the science and know they must act and lead by example?
Have you ever stood back and thought that it might be even remotely possible that you are wrong?
Have you ever stood back and thought maybe, just maybe there might be something to all the climate change stuff.
Have you ever stood back and thought maybe this is a much bigger issue than the short term economic crisis
Have you ever stood back and thought the the US government under Bush spent an awful long time trying to deny the science..why do you think that was?
Have you ever stood back and thought that the reason the US government are reacting to this is because they believe the science and know they must act and lead by example?
Have you ever stood back and thought that it might be even remotely possible that you are wrong?
Regardless, you need to understand what society must do to bring about this 'ideal' climate before acting. For example environmental lobbyists brought about regulation on particulate emissions which correspondingly dropped in the years that followed. Everyone was pleased with themselves yet global warming started to accelerate on account of the extra sunlight which was previously absorbed by these particulates... Anyway it is clear that we don't know how it will pan out or how many thousands of years will pass before we understand the climate, so any act seems at best, like a wild stab in the dark.
The previous US administration had many ties to polluting companies, which lose money if they are forced to pollute less. So surprise surprise they will resist change as it hurts them in the wallet.
As for the current administration, their motives are unclear. However any tax which people gladly pay on account of feeling some kind of guilt, or the need to contribute in a minute way, is going to be a winner with modern governments
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Well thats are surprising response....NOT
Have you ever stood back and thought maybe, just maybe there might be something to all the climate change stuff.
Have you ever stood back and thought maybe this is a much bigger issue than the short term economic crisis
Have you ever stood back and thought the the US government under Bush spent an awful long time trying to deny the science..why do you think that was?
Have you ever stood back and thought that the reason the US government are reacting to this is because they believe the science and know they must act and lead by example?
Have you ever stood back and thought that it might be even remotely possible that you are wrong?
Have you ever stood back and thought maybe, just maybe there might be something to all the climate change stuff.
Have you ever stood back and thought maybe this is a much bigger issue than the short term economic crisis
Have you ever stood back and thought the the US government under Bush spent an awful long time trying to deny the science..why do you think that was?
Have you ever stood back and thought that the reason the US government are reacting to this is because they believe the science and know they must act and lead by example?
Have you ever stood back and thought that it might be even remotely possible that you are wrong?
nah i didnt think so either
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Why is it we cannot have a sensible debate about a huge topic without complete morons (like you obviously) making stupid and pointless remarks. Have you actually got something useful to say on the thread or not.. or are you just playing childish games for the crowd????
Also why can I not have a moderate view on this subject without being attacked as some kind of Eco-Warrior, which is something I'm convinced says more about you lot than me....afterall I'm moderate and you think I'm an eco-warrior....WTF does that make you lot?????
The problem (as I see it) is cynicism has taken the place of healthy sceptism, not just on this but on most issues we discuss. We cannot have an issue where there is some kind of conspiracy at the heart, I'm a much bigger believer in '****-up' than conspiracy, in other words if you lot are right (and I hope you are), that doesn't mean we are dealing with some sort of multinational conspiracy, it probably just means they got it wrong...time will tell.
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But an eco warrior that drives a gas guzzler surely balances out, becoming moderate overall ![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
Unless they've remanipulated the 'records' again then doesn't CO2 lag global temperature? A bit like saying the smoke is the cause of fire? But of course its not as simple as that, which is why they simply tax us on CO2
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Unless they've remanipulated the 'records' again then doesn't CO2 lag global temperature? A bit like saying the smoke is the cause of fire? But of course its not as simple as that, which is why they simply tax us on CO2