JonMc

iTrader: (51)

I don't have a link to any story as this family are personal friends of mine.

Out of curiosity, what qualifications do you have that enable you to state categorically that someone would not be charge with causing death by dangerous driving when they have killed someone whilst exceeding the speed limit by a third.

cster

Let's put it another way.
I would be surprised if a lawyer's advice would be to plead guilty to a charge of dangerous driving, when exceeding the speed limit by 10 mph.

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

Exceeding the speed limit by 10mph in a residential are is very different to exceeding the speed limit by 10mph on a motorway.

He was speeding when he killed someone, given that the lesser offence of causing death by careless driving was not introduced until 2006 iirc, and that this happened in 2001, I don't believe that there was any other option.

Also, the lad was so cut up about the death of the girl he felt it was the morally correct thing to do to take whatever was given him on the chin and not challenge it and not argue the toss.

Timwinner

iTrader: (3)

Here you go,

Road Traffic Act 1991, s 1, defines the offences of causing death by dangerous driving and dangerous driving:

A person who causes the death of another person by driving a mechanically propelled vehicle dangerously on a road or other public place is guilty of an offence.

A person who drives a mechanically propelled vehicle dangerously on a road or other public place is guilty of an offence.

A person is also to be regarded as driving dangerously if it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving the vehicle in its current state would be dangerous which includes considering anything attached to or carried on or in it, and to the manner in which it is attached or carried.

In this context, "dangerous" refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property; and in determining what would be expected of, or obvious to, a competent and careful driver in a particular case, regard shall be had not only to the circumstances of which he could be expected to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused. In Attorney General's Reference (No 4 of 2000) (2001) 2 Cr. App. R. 417 Woolf CJ said at p 422:

The essential limbs, as is common ground, do not require any specific intent to drive dangerously. Section 2A sets out a wholly objective test. The concept of what is obvious to a careful driver places the question of what constitutes dangerous driving within the province of the jury.

Thus, whereas the underlying test of dangerousness is objective, a test based on the concept of "obviousness" considers the extent of knowledge as to causation. This test is hybrid, drawing both on the actual subjective knowledge that the accused had in his or her mind at the time the actus reus of driving occurred, and on the knowledge that would have been in the mind of a reasonable person (see mens rea and criminal negligence for discussion on the nature of these tests and the scope of the reasonable person).

It would be a case for the judge/jury to decide but to put it in an easier to understand form.
It has to be apparent to a reasonable person that the driver should have known the speed he was going could be likely to kill someone in the context of which he was caught.

You would be very un lucky if you got stuck on for DBDD for 10mph over the limit.

hope that clears it up

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

Yes Tim it does, I remember when the judge sent him down he stated that had been uninsured, unlicenced etc he would have been given a lighter sentence, but given the fact that he was licenced and the car was fully legal he felt he could assume that he should have known better than to be speeding - hence death by dangerous

At the time I think the police threw the DBDD charge expecting him to deny it and bargain on the offence, but he was so cut up about what he had done he just admitted to the lot and copped a plea.

Stainy

Without any other factors, merely doing 40 in a 30 would never get a conviction at court unless the person plead guilty (which in this case you say he did - fair enough)

However, as long as there is heat in hell, CPS would never allow the charge based on this alone. I refer to my earlier point. Post a link or it's my perogative to not believe a word of it.

Felix.

The official line is that we can't. But it would be impossible to carry out the job.

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

That's your perogative, if you wish to search for it yourself feel free, but I never followed the press on it so I don't have any links. I'm not going to waste my time searching for old news just so you can feel good about yourself.

ScoobyNudge

iTrader: (4)

they should invest in hands free then IMO

The Zohan

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...mes-freed.html

In September, Hussain was spotted by a police community support officer driving a Mercedes through Burnley, and was seen again by the same officer an hour later driving he same car, the court heard. He was stopped and arrested but given bail, and just two months later was caught behind the wheel of a Vauxhall Astra hired by his father.


Even his POS father has little regard for the UK laws!

ScoobyNudge

iTrader: (4)

Im really sorry in advance for this reply I can assure you im no rascist but this guy and his family should be deported if you cant abide by UK law and cant commit to being a decent citizen in our country then he shouldnt be here.

Trust me having been to the middle east living and spending 6 months in school out here just after the iran/iraq war and seeing the severity of punishment out there for minor crimes this should not be tolerated.

Our justice system is a joke Nuff Said

Once Again I appologise if my post come accross as racist I really dont mean to offend anyone.

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

It's not racist, it's practical and goes back to the old saying that starts..

"When in Rome....."

I'm sure you know the rest.

ScoobyNudge

iTrader: (4)

yea cheers mate! You know it is on the net, Dont want police at the door lol