The police's latest brainwave. Hats off to this one your muppets!
15 May 2009, 11:22 AM
#61
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1) So long as you know its been stolen and activate the tracker
2) You can get them anywhere. internet - they often use black tape to change a charcater on the plate too
3) Granted, but they often lie on the back seats or hide in the boot if they are being ferried about.
4) Still doesn't mean you haven't drank alcohol
5) You don't need to be to be stopped..?
6) You talk to drivers and you can often smell the alcohol
We won't know who is behind the wheel unless we stop the car
2) You can get them anywhere. internet - they often use black tape to change a charcater on the plate too
3) Granted, but they often lie on the back seats or hide in the boot if they are being ferried about.
4) Still doesn't mean you haven't drank alcohol
5) You don't need to be to be stopped..?
6) You talk to drivers and you can often smell the alcohol
We won't know who is behind the wheel unless we stop the car
If it shows up as insured and taxed, and its not speeding why pull it over?
Why not stop busybodying and go and do something worthwhile!
15 May 2009, 11:31 AM
#62
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No Licence
Wanted People
Drunk drivers
I've arrested people for all these offences who were driving cars which were insured taxed and MOT'd
15 May 2009, 11:48 AM
#64
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That's my point exactly.
Even though the ****** was clearly lying about his alibi nothing further is done.
What should happen is that action should be taken with those that have given this false ali bi as it can be definitively proven it was false by said CCTV footage and of course the intial crime more heavily investigated.
Crime is escalating in the country because the police can only be arsed to pursue the cast iron cases or anything that involves profit. By that I don't mean serious crimes but petty crimes such as the one above. The lack of willing to tackle these everyday crimes and the dreadful attitudes of the majority of todays police men and women is why the police are not liked by the public in general.
I've said before on other topics that if the balance was the other way round i.e most of the police force were polite, courteous and respectful rather than rude brash arrogant.
Then public opinion will improve.
My last encounter was a prime example. late at night in the **** end of nowhere I went out for a bit of spirited drive. I ended up getting stopped in a country line miles from anywhere. The officers first words to me were "who the f*ck do you think you are you f*cking ar*e hole Lewis Hamilton?" Why are you driving like a c*nt?
Which was complete rubbish I was doing about 70 on a national speed limit.
Fair enough I was speeding and I had broken the law, I hardly warranted being spoken to like that.
I made him know that I had made a note of his collar number. He then said it's a good job he has to be back at the station blah blah blah, otherwise he'd have thrown the book at me. He just gave me a bollocking (which I deserved) so I decided not to make an issue of how he spoke to me.
There are far too many w*nkers like that in the Police these days.
It's ***** like him that need to go otherwise the police will always have a dreadful reputation.
Even though the ****** was clearly lying about his alibi nothing further is done.
What should happen is that action should be taken with those that have given this false ali bi as it can be definitively proven it was false by said CCTV footage and of course the intial crime more heavily investigated.
Crime is escalating in the country because the police can only be arsed to pursue the cast iron cases or anything that involves profit. By that I don't mean serious crimes but petty crimes such as the one above. The lack of willing to tackle these everyday crimes and the dreadful attitudes of the majority of todays police men and women is why the police are not liked by the public in general.
I've said before on other topics that if the balance was the other way round i.e most of the police force were polite, courteous and respectful rather than rude brash arrogant.
Then public opinion will improve.
My last encounter was a prime example. late at night in the **** end of nowhere I went out for a bit of spirited drive. I ended up getting stopped in a country line miles from anywhere. The officers first words to me were "who the f*ck do you think you are you f*cking ar*e hole Lewis Hamilton?" Why are you driving like a c*nt?
Which was complete rubbish I was doing about 70 on a national speed limit.
Fair enough I was speeding and I had broken the law, I hardly warranted being spoken to like that.
I made him know that I had made a note of his collar number. He then said it's a good job he has to be back at the station blah blah blah, otherwise he'd have thrown the book at me. He just gave me a bollocking (which I deserved) so I decided not to make an issue of how he spoke to me.
There are far too many w*nkers like that in the Police these days.
It's ***** like him that need to go otherwise the police will always have a dreadful reputation.
Happens in my town all the time, i waved at a mate out of a car window once, and some 22 year old bully victim copper just happened to be driving past, why did he do an illegal u turn and come flying up behind us with the blues and twos on, pull us over and try to talk to me like i was a naughty five year old?
Its not illegal to wave at a mate, i told him this and he got really arsey and said if i didnt shut up and listen to him i would be nicked for breach of the peace, so i sked him how and he said the desk sargeant would believe a copper over a "chavvy ******" (thats what he called me!) any day of the week. He then proceeded to tell me i was in his "notebook" as a trouble maker and he would be looking for me a kicking out time cos he wanted to knick me as he didnt like my attitude!
Didnt like my attitude, WTF, what a ****, hes the one who handbraked it in the middle of a busy street full of pissed up people, then did at least 40-45 in a 30 to catch us up, then proceeded to be a complete tw@ just cos i waved hello out of a passenger window, i mean who does this asshat think he is?
More to the point how do little hitlers like him manage to get into the force in the first place, dont you guys have psycology tests?
And before some nub says not all police are like that, i have yet to meet one who isnt like that, so as far as im concerned they are all *******!
Every copper i have met has had a really bad attitude, its like they want to arrest people as some sort of buzz or something!
Just cos you all had an unhappy school life devoid of friends and sex doesnt mean you have to become a copper and be a **** to everyone!
And has anyone noticed all the PCSO idiots who failed the police exam but still desperately want to be a copper are all either big, fat short haired lesbos who hate all men and treat them accordingly, but are nice to women, or skinny little clowns who think they can go round telling peope what to do, and feel really important while doing it!
I have seen a copper provoke someone who used to lightly bully him at school to the point he swore twice at him, he was then THROWN to the ground by two coppers (who were obviously mates), and the bully victim copper was deliberately rough when cuffing him, then he was laughing about it while the transit arrived to pick him up, saying "oh how the tables ahve turned, this wont be the last time you tw@"
I see this sort of ****e every week when out on the ****, and it really pisses me off, ******* like that should never be allowed in a postion of relative power, they are not mentally capable of separating them selves from emotional attachements and bring their deeply rooted probelms to work, and by default, the general public!
Coppers are nothing but glorified tax collectors, i hate them all!
Last edited by GC8WRX; 15 May 2009 at 11:53 AM.
15 May 2009, 11:50 AM
#65
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So you feel the need to pull over every car just in case?
I could understand it if the car is weaving all over the road or is speeding, but to pull over a car that isnt doing anything wrong is bollocks, its just you guys wanting to do someone!
15 May 2009, 11:55 AM
#66
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Seems to me there are plenty of crimes for the Old Bill to investigate, so why stop the general public going about their lawful business without something that arouses suspision? It would seem because all collars are counted the same that these generally minor offences help the numbers. Where as solving crimes that have been committed is a little more difficult. Success rates for solving crimes are at an all time low (Home office statistics). So I suppose its easier to pick on people in the streets or on the roads rather than find out who burgled your house.
15 May 2009, 12:50 PM
#67
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Its a bad situation when the police and home office count a crime solved as a crime solved, so doing someone for speeding counts the same as as catching a house theif or busting a herion dealer!
15 May 2009, 01:20 PM
#68
Well, I'm certainly not like that, never have been & never will be. And neither are any of my shift.
I treat people as i find them as it makes everything a lot easier.
People like that need kicking of the force, you need to make waves and complain a lot, what he was talking about breach of the peace for is just bollox
I treat people as i find them as it makes everything a lot easier.
People like that need kicking of the force, you need to make waves and complain a lot, what he was talking about breach of the peace for is just bollox
15 May 2009, 01:21 PM
#69
It doesn't. Traffic offences are not classed as crimes so don't figure on detection figures
15 May 2009, 01:29 PM
#70
So every car you see is suspiscious then, WTF?
So you feel the need to pull over every car just in case?
I could understand it if the car is weaving all over the road or is speeding, but to pull over a car that isnt doing anything wrong is bollocks, its just you guys wanting to do someone!
So you feel the need to pull over every car just in case?
I could understand it if the car is weaving all over the road or is speeding, but to pull over a car that isnt doing anything wrong is bollocks, its just you guys wanting to do someone!
You must have seen the TV programmes where they pull a seemingly ordinary car and it turns out to be used in or for crime.
Travelling between jobs I often stop a car and spend about 1 minute with the driver. If everything checks out, he's off. 1 in 20 cars on average will have a disqual driver, drink driver, wanted person, or the car is stolen.
If you don't think its worth me stopping the odd car, then fine - but the above people will continue to drive knowing they will never get stopped
15 May 2009, 01:35 PM
#71
Seems to me there are plenty of crimes for the Old Bill to investigate, so why stop the general public going about their lawful business without something that arouses suspision? It would seem because all collars are counted the same that these generally minor offences help the numbers. Where as solving crimes that have been committed is a little more difficult. Success rates for solving crimes are at an all time low (Home office statistics). So I suppose its easier to pick on people in the streets or on the roads rather than find out who burgled your house.
Burglaries (and a lot of other crimes) are investigated fully, but often do not lead to a suspect. What do you want us to do, arrest anyone and fit them up.
There are far more officers dealing with crimes than traffic offences. You have CID, response, local beats, OCU, drug squad, tactical support, fraud investigation, internet crime, vice, licensing etc etc.
Traffic are tiny in comparrison and target drivers committing offences. And lets face it, if they pull are car that's committed an offence there is no investigation to do. But its only traffic who will do this as routine.
15 May 2009, 02:48 PM
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This is the sort of thing that went on in the Soviet Republic, how long will it be before you are stopping us in the street because we are looking smart and ask us for our "papers"! Is that the kind of society that you wish to encourage?
Les
15 May 2009, 03:36 PM
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We see it on these cop shows all the time, so and so's house was raided at O dark 30 under suspicion of being a drug dealer or being in possesion. I think you need to be a bit firmer with stating your suspicions mate.
15 May 2009, 03:42 PM
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what a screwed up idea to basically bugger up our comunity, everybody being encouraged to watch and grass up their neighbours, it seems that the police should start being policepeople and actually do something. wasnt it **** germany where people where encouraged to keep an eye on their neighbours,( toe the party line ) just so sad
15 May 2009, 03:56 PM
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I am not the most presentable person and I drive a scooby, own a 4 bedroom house and have a crap job but I am not on the make or a criminal.
15 May 2009, 06:35 PM
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felix
i too came from a uniformed service(army) and do understand that at times your hands are tied having served in northern ireland and various other top holiday spots(kosovo,iraq and afganistan).
in my case i just felt really let down that the officer who was investigating didn't have the common courtasy to return calls even if it was to say no further action was taking place. i for one dont dislike coppers just sometimes i think they need to be a little less abrupt and confrontational and to use a bit more judgement
cheers keith
i too came from a uniformed service(army) and do understand that at times your hands are tied having served in northern ireland and various other top holiday spots(kosovo,iraq and afganistan).
in my case i just felt really let down that the officer who was investigating didn't have the common courtasy to return calls even if it was to say no further action was taking place. i for one dont dislike coppers just sometimes i think they need to be a little less abrupt and confrontational and to use a bit more judgement
cheers keith
15 May 2009, 08:15 PM
#77
Isn't that normal practice?
That's exactly what happened to me in 1993. It very nearly happened again a few weeks ago.
In 1993, I decided to leave my m/cycle in town and share a taxi home with friends. I had unexpectedly gone for a drink after finishing work at 10pm on a Friday. I locked my helmet on the bike and put my jacket in the pannier. At the end of the night, when going back to get my jacket and helmet, there were two plods following me. When I got to the bike, one of them grabbed me and took the keys out of my hand. I explained what I was doing but he ignored me. After failing the breath test, he said on his radio "ok, we've got him", and a police car appeared from just out of sight. At court, they both gave word for word identical statements stating that I was sitting on the bike with the engine running, and was about to ride off, when he stood in front and stopped me. Lies. I even had a U-lock through the wheel. They also heard the conversation with my friend at the taxi rank. I didn't think my friend would wait till I got my stuff from the bike, so he gave me his house keys to assure me he'd wait. The police even stopped at the taxi rank after my arrest, to give my mate his keys back. Obviously I pleaded not guilty, but the court will always take the word of a lying policeman over an honest citizen.
The other incident- Just a few weeks ago, at around midnight, I was on my way home from Tesco. (On my mororcycle again). I was pulled over by "traffic". I asked why was I stopped. "Routine check" he said. Ok, fair enough I thought, I've got nothing to hide and wasn't breaking any traffic rules. Within a couple of minutes, three other police cars and a van had turned up. 8 police in total. I was taken into the van and was subjected to 15 minutes of interogation. They kept saying "we know what you've done, just admit it and we'll go easy on you". Obviously I had no idea what they were on about. Then it came over the radio that other plods had arrested the real criminal. If they hadn't got him, I could probably have been fitted up for whatever crime he'd commited (They wouldn't say what it was).
There was another incident a couple of years ago this time involving my car, but I think this post is long enough as it is.
Sorry for the long post folks.
However, I have nothing against the Police in general. I just think the selection process should be seriously reviewed.
Old fashoined policing may be long gone in these days of running the police force as a money making business, but at least they used to have our respect years ago.
That's exactly what happened to me in 1993. It very nearly happened again a few weeks ago.
In 1993, I decided to leave my m/cycle in town and share a taxi home with friends. I had unexpectedly gone for a drink after finishing work at 10pm on a Friday. I locked my helmet on the bike and put my jacket in the pannier. At the end of the night, when going back to get my jacket and helmet, there were two plods following me. When I got to the bike, one of them grabbed me and took the keys out of my hand. I explained what I was doing but he ignored me. After failing the breath test, he said on his radio "ok, we've got him", and a police car appeared from just out of sight. At court, they both gave word for word identical statements stating that I was sitting on the bike with the engine running, and was about to ride off, when he stood in front and stopped me. Lies. I even had a U-lock through the wheel. They also heard the conversation with my friend at the taxi rank. I didn't think my friend would wait till I got my stuff from the bike, so he gave me his house keys to assure me he'd wait. The police even stopped at the taxi rank after my arrest, to give my mate his keys back. Obviously I pleaded not guilty, but the court will always take the word of a lying policeman over an honest citizen.
The other incident- Just a few weeks ago, at around midnight, I was on my way home from Tesco. (On my mororcycle again). I was pulled over by "traffic". I asked why was I stopped. "Routine check" he said. Ok, fair enough I thought, I've got nothing to hide and wasn't breaking any traffic rules. Within a couple of minutes, three other police cars and a van had turned up. 8 police in total. I was taken into the van and was subjected to 15 minutes of interogation. They kept saying "we know what you've done, just admit it and we'll go easy on you". Obviously I had no idea what they were on about. Then it came over the radio that other plods had arrested the real criminal. If they hadn't got him, I could probably have been fitted up for whatever crime he'd commited (They wouldn't say what it was).
There was another incident a couple of years ago this time involving my car, but I think this post is long enough as it is.
Sorry for the long post folks.
However, I have nothing against the Police in general. I just think the selection process should be seriously reviewed.
Old fashoined policing may be long gone in these days of running the police force as a money making business, but at least they used to have our respect years ago.
15 May 2009, 08:19 PM
#78
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Happens in my town all the time, i waved at a mate out of a car window once, and some 22 year old bully victim copper just happened to be driving past, why did he do an illegal u turn and come flying up behind us with the blues and twos on, pull us over and try to talk to me like i was a naughty five year old?
Its not illegal to wave at a mate, i told him this and he got really arsey and said if i didnt shut up and listen to him i would be nicked for breach of the peace, so i sked him how and he said the desk sargeant would believe a copper over a "chavvy ******" (thats what he called me!) any day of the week. He then proceeded to tell me i was in his "notebook" as a trouble maker and he would be looking for me a kicking out time cos he wanted to knick me as he didnt like my attitude!
Didnt like my attitude, WTF, what a ****, hes the one who handbraked it in the middle of a busy street full of pissed up people, then did at least 40-45 in a 30 to catch us up, then proceeded to be a complete tw@ just cos i waved hello out of a passenger window, i mean who does this asshat think he is?
More to the point how do little hitlers like him manage to get into the force in the first place, dont you guys have psycology tests?
And before some nub says not all police are like that, i have yet to meet one who isnt like that, so as far as im concerned they are all *******!
Every copper i have met has had a really bad attitude, its like they want to arrest people as some sort of buzz or something!
Just cos you all had an unhappy school life devoid of friends and sex doesnt mean you have to become a copper and be a **** to everyone!
And has anyone noticed all the PCSO idiots who failed the police exam but still desperately want to be a copper are all either big, fat short haired lesbos who hate all men and treat them accordingly, but are nice to women, or skinny little clowns who think they can go round telling peope what to do, and feel really important while doing it!
I have seen a copper provoke someone who used to lightly bully him at school to the point he swore twice at him, he was then THROWN to the ground by two coppers (who were obviously mates), and the bully victim copper was deliberately rough when cuffing him, then he was laughing about it while the transit arrived to pick him up, saying "oh how the tables ahve turned, this wont be the last time you tw@"
I see this sort of ****e every week when out on the ****, and it really pisses me off, ******* like that should never be allowed in a postion of relative power, they are not mentally capable of separating them selves from emotional attachements and bring their deeply rooted probelms to work, and by default, the general public!
Coppers are nothing but glorified tax collectors, i hate them all!
Its not illegal to wave at a mate, i told him this and he got really arsey and said if i didnt shut up and listen to him i would be nicked for breach of the peace, so i sked him how and he said the desk sargeant would believe a copper over a "chavvy ******" (thats what he called me!) any day of the week. He then proceeded to tell me i was in his "notebook" as a trouble maker and he would be looking for me a kicking out time cos he wanted to knick me as he didnt like my attitude!
Didnt like my attitude, WTF, what a ****, hes the one who handbraked it in the middle of a busy street full of pissed up people, then did at least 40-45 in a 30 to catch us up, then proceeded to be a complete tw@ just cos i waved hello out of a passenger window, i mean who does this asshat think he is?
More to the point how do little hitlers like him manage to get into the force in the first place, dont you guys have psycology tests?
And before some nub says not all police are like that, i have yet to meet one who isnt like that, so as far as im concerned they are all *******!
Every copper i have met has had a really bad attitude, its like they want to arrest people as some sort of buzz or something!
Just cos you all had an unhappy school life devoid of friends and sex doesnt mean you have to become a copper and be a **** to everyone!
And has anyone noticed all the PCSO idiots who failed the police exam but still desperately want to be a copper are all either big, fat short haired lesbos who hate all men and treat them accordingly, but are nice to women, or skinny little clowns who think they can go round telling peope what to do, and feel really important while doing it!
I have seen a copper provoke someone who used to lightly bully him at school to the point he swore twice at him, he was then THROWN to the ground by two coppers (who were obviously mates), and the bully victim copper was deliberately rough when cuffing him, then he was laughing about it while the transit arrived to pick him up, saying "oh how the tables ahve turned, this wont be the last time you tw@"
I see this sort of ****e every week when out on the ****, and it really pisses me off, ******* like that should never be allowed in a postion of relative power, they are not mentally capable of separating them selves from emotional attachements and bring their deeply rooted probelms to work, and by default, the general public!
Coppers are nothing but glorified tax collectors, i hate them all!
Ruddy nora, I wish you'd get off the fence and just say what you think.
I've happened across a couple of bad apples in the police over the years, but you are extremely unlucky if all the ones you meet are bad apples.
Maybe they can pick up some (not so?) subtle indicators of your dislike for them and act accordingly.
15 May 2009, 08:57 PM
#79
So what you are saying then, its ok to stop people who have not committed any kind of offence to your knowledge but who have shown that they have had a bit of success in life and have maybe been reported to you even out of jealousy on the part of the snoop concerned or because he feels he may "get in with you"!
This is the sort of thing that went on in the Soviet Republic, how long will it be before you are stopping us in the street because we are looking smart and ask us for our "papers"! Is that the kind of society that you wish to encourage?
Les
This is the sort of thing that went on in the Soviet Republic, how long will it be before you are stopping us in the street because we are looking smart and ask us for our "papers"! Is that the kind of society that you wish to encourage?
Les
But how does a common or garden plod know I am unemployed when they stop me? plus how many Ferraris get stopped by the fuzz on a routing stop? not many I would bet. Also how does a cop know I have 3 houses or a 75ft TV.
I am not the most presentable person and I drive a scooby, own a 4 bedroom house and have a crap job but I am not on the make or a criminal.
I am not the most presentable person and I drive a scooby, own a 4 bedroom house and have a crap job but I am not on the make or a criminal.
I'm not bothered either way to be honest, but i am aware that there are lots of people sick of defrauding the system and living off ill gotten gains well above their means
15 May 2009, 09:25 PM
#80
Scunnered & Mr Terzo
Clearly this is wrong and shouldn't happen. There is a victims code of practice in place now which means that everyone has to be updated every step of the way. Its what i did anyway, but now its set in stone and checked upon.
I have never tried to fit anyone up. My role is to gather evidence and put it to CPS/courts. When you were stopped on your bike and it ended up as mistaken identity, i can see why you were stopped, but it did not excuse the treatment you got. If that was me i would have told you the reason why i stopped you and had a calm chat with you whilst we waited. Even if you were guilty of some horrendous crime, its pointless getting arsey with anyone.
I tend to call all i stop 'mate' and chat with them - although this behaviour seemed to upset a few on scoobynet a while ago...........
Clearly this is wrong and shouldn't happen. There is a victims code of practice in place now which means that everyone has to be updated every step of the way. Its what i did anyway, but now its set in stone and checked upon.
I have never tried to fit anyone up. My role is to gather evidence and put it to CPS/courts. When you were stopped on your bike and it ended up as mistaken identity, i can see why you were stopped, but it did not excuse the treatment you got. If that was me i would have told you the reason why i stopped you and had a calm chat with you whilst we waited. Even if you were guilty of some horrendous crime, its pointless getting arsey with anyone.
I tend to call all i stop 'mate' and chat with them - although this behaviour seemed to upset a few on scoobynet a while ago...........
16 May 2009, 11:32 AM
#81
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No - we are not stopping joe public on the street who look a bit well off and siezing their cars. Its all intelligence lead with all sorts of enquiries (normally as a result of criminal proceedings) that this piece of legislation will kick in. People phoning in just adds to the intel.
So you will be left alone. But if you have a massive criminal record, no job, claiming benefits you may be closley looked at.
I'm not bothered either way to be honest, but i am aware that there are lots of people sick of defrauding the system and living off ill gotten gains well above their means
So you will be left alone. But if you have a massive criminal record, no job, claiming benefits you may be closley looked at.
I'm not bothered either way to be honest, but i am aware that there are lots of people sick of defrauding the system and living off ill gotten gains well above their means
I accept that if you know a man has got form and has shown he is not to be trusted, then it is quite reasonable to keep an eye on him. An important part of your job!
I was concerned at the idea of getting members of the public to act as informers on anyone if they felt like it. That would be a dangerous step I think and could lead to all sorts of trouble.Encouraging a country full of snoops would be intolerable and is not the British way!
Les
16 May 2009, 11:45 AM
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The info passed on by crimestoppers will go to individual force intelligence teams, They will look at the individual cases. The police deal with bogus claims all the time, the public information is just a a small bit of information that will be fitted into a much larger picture.
The mail and the BBC took the bits they wanted, they didnt explain it at all well and the story that was put out made the public angry.
If the real story had been put out a reasonable person would have deemed it reasonable.
The mail and the BBC took the bits they wanted, they didnt explain it at all well and the story that was put out made the public angry.
If the real story had been put out a reasonable person would have deemed it reasonable.
16 May 2009, 02:14 PM
#84
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I think we understand it in different ways, I think its a shop dodgy people campaign, lets be honest we all know the difference between someone who likes there cars and the guy down the road that is on the take.
You think its encouraging snoopers, Ultimately nothing will come of it either way so I am not sure if I have any more to say about the whole topic.
Dont want to shop bad people.... Dont shop them.
If you do want to shop bad people you have a means to do it.
You think its encouraging snoopers, Ultimately nothing will come of it either way so I am not sure if I have any more to say about the whole topic.
Dont want to shop bad people.... Dont shop them.
If you do want to shop bad people you have a means to do it.
16 May 2009, 06:05 PM
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It seems like many have missed the point of what the objective of this excercise is. If you read the following you will see that there are people making money from some very serious crimes. It is also worth noting that it is the CPS who made the policy.
CPS policy is that money laundering and asset confiscation legislation under the Proceeds Of Cime Act should be considered as a matter of course.
POCA applies offences committed on or after the 24th March 2003. Confiscation may still be possible under early legislation and asset recovery should still be considered.
POCA asset confiscation does not only apply to drug trafficking.
This flow chart shows if asset confiscation is appropriate:
1.ALL 'Criminal Lifestyle' cases will be considered as confiscation cases, save for drug trafficking cases if the amount trafficked is minimal such as passing minor amounts to friends.
'Criminal Lifestyle' offences are defined in POCA Schedule 2. These are:
A 'Criminal Lifestyle' offence is one of the specific offences listed at 1 to 10 below, or it can be a combination of any offences of gain as described at 11 to 13 below.
1.Drug trafficking.
An offence under any of the following provisions of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971: -
(a) section 4(2) or (3) unlawful production or supply of controlled drugs
(b) section 5(3) possession of controlled drugs with intent to supply
(c) section 8 permitting activities relating to controlled drugs
(d)section 20 assisting/inducing commission outside the UK
Any offence under any of the following provisions of the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979 if it is committed in connection with a prohibition or restriction on importation or exportation which has effect by virtue of section 3 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971: -
(a) section 50(2) or (3) improper importation of goods;
(b) section 68(2) exploration of prohibited or restricted goods;
(c) section 170 fraudulent evasion
An offence under either of the following provisions of the Criminal Justice Act (International Co-operation) Act 1990: -
(a) section 12 manufacture/supply of substance specified in Schedule 2 of the Act
(b) section 19 using a ship for illicit traffic in controlled drugs
2.Money Laundering
An offence under either of the following provisions of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002:-
(a) section 327 concealing etc criminal property
(b) section 328 assisting another to retain criminal property
3.Directing Terrorism
An offence under Section 56 of the Terrorism Act 2000 directing the activities of a terrorist organisation.
4.People Trafficking
An offence under section 25, 25A or 25B of the Immigration Act 1971 – assisting unlawful immigration etc.
An offence under any section 57, 58 or 59 Sexual Offence Act 2003
An offence under section 4 of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants) Act 2004 – exploitation.
5.Arms Trafficking
An offence under either of the following provisions of the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979 is committed in connection with a firearm of ammunition:-
(a) section 68(2) exportation of prohibited goods;
(b) section 170 fraudulent evasion
An offence under section 3(1) of the Firearms Act 1968 – dealing in firearms or ammunition by way of trade or business.
In this paragraph “firearm” and “ammunition” have the same meaning as in section 57 of the Firearms Act 1968.
6.Counterfeiting.
An offence under any of the following provisions of the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981: -
(a) section 14 – making counterfeit notes or coins;
(b) section 15 – passing counterfeit notes or coins;
(c) section 16 – having counterfeit notes or coins;
(d)section 17 – making or possessing materials or equipment for counterfeiting.
7.Intellectual Property.
An offence under any of the following provisions of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 :-
(a) section 107(1) Making or dealing in an article which infringes copyright.
(b) section 107(2) making or possessing an article designed or adapted for making a copy of a copyright work.
(c) section 198(1) Making or dealing in an illicit recording.
(d)section 297A Making or dealing in unauthorised decoders.
8.Prostitution and Child Sex
An offence under section 33 or 34 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956 – Keeping or letting premises for use as a brothel.
An offence under any of the following provisions of the Sexual Offences Act 2003:-
(a) section 14 Arranging or facilitating commission of a child sex offence
(b) section 48 Causing or inciting child prostitution or pornography
(c) section 49 Controlling a child prostitute or a child involved in pornography
(d)section 50 Arranging or facilitating child prostitution or pornography.
(e) section 52 Causing or inciting prostitution for gain
(f) section 53 Controlling prostitution for gain
9.Blackmail.
An offence under section 21 of the Theft Act 1968 – Blackmail
An offence under section 12(1) or (2) of the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004 – Acting as a gangmaster other than under the authority of a licence, possession of false documents etc.
10.Incohate Offences
An offence of attempting, conspiring or inciting the commission of an offence specified in this schedule.
An offence of aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of such an offence.
11.Any offence committed over a period of at least six months and the defendant has benefited from the conduct by at least £5000.
12.The defendant has been charged and convicted of four or more offences within these proceedings from which they have benefited by at least £5000 in total.
13. In the 6 years previous to present proceedings (ending the day when the present proceedings started) the defendant has been convicted on at least two separate occasions of an offence from which he has benefited by a total of £5000.
CPS policy is that money laundering and asset confiscation legislation under the Proceeds Of Cime Act should be considered as a matter of course.
POCA applies offences committed on or after the 24th March 2003. Confiscation may still be possible under early legislation and asset recovery should still be considered.
POCA asset confiscation does not only apply to drug trafficking.
This flow chart shows if asset confiscation is appropriate:
1.ALL 'Criminal Lifestyle' cases will be considered as confiscation cases, save for drug trafficking cases if the amount trafficked is minimal such as passing minor amounts to friends.
'Criminal Lifestyle' offences are defined in POCA Schedule 2. These are:
A 'Criminal Lifestyle' offence is one of the specific offences listed at 1 to 10 below, or it can be a combination of any offences of gain as described at 11 to 13 below.
1.Drug trafficking.
An offence under any of the following provisions of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971: -
(a) section 4(2) or (3) unlawful production or supply of controlled drugs
(b) section 5(3) possession of controlled drugs with intent to supply
(c) section 8 permitting activities relating to controlled drugs
(d)section 20 assisting/inducing commission outside the UK
Any offence under any of the following provisions of the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979 if it is committed in connection with a prohibition or restriction on importation or exportation which has effect by virtue of section 3 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971: -
(a) section 50(2) or (3) improper importation of goods;
(b) section 68(2) exploration of prohibited or restricted goods;
(c) section 170 fraudulent evasion
An offence under either of the following provisions of the Criminal Justice Act (International Co-operation) Act 1990: -
(a) section 12 manufacture/supply of substance specified in Schedule 2 of the Act
(b) section 19 using a ship for illicit traffic in controlled drugs
2.Money Laundering
An offence under either of the following provisions of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002:-
(a) section 327 concealing etc criminal property
(b) section 328 assisting another to retain criminal property
3.Directing Terrorism
An offence under Section 56 of the Terrorism Act 2000 directing the activities of a terrorist organisation.
4.People Trafficking
An offence under section 25, 25A or 25B of the Immigration Act 1971 – assisting unlawful immigration etc.
An offence under any section 57, 58 or 59 Sexual Offence Act 2003
An offence under section 4 of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants) Act 2004 – exploitation.
5.Arms Trafficking
An offence under either of the following provisions of the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979 is committed in connection with a firearm of ammunition:-
(a) section 68(2) exportation of prohibited goods;
(b) section 170 fraudulent evasion
An offence under section 3(1) of the Firearms Act 1968 – dealing in firearms or ammunition by way of trade or business.
In this paragraph “firearm” and “ammunition” have the same meaning as in section 57 of the Firearms Act 1968.
6.Counterfeiting.
An offence under any of the following provisions of the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981: -
(a) section 14 – making counterfeit notes or coins;
(b) section 15 – passing counterfeit notes or coins;
(c) section 16 – having counterfeit notes or coins;
(d)section 17 – making or possessing materials or equipment for counterfeiting.
7.Intellectual Property.
An offence under any of the following provisions of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 :-
(a) section 107(1) Making or dealing in an article which infringes copyright.
(b) section 107(2) making or possessing an article designed or adapted for making a copy of a copyright work.
(c) section 198(1) Making or dealing in an illicit recording.
(d)section 297A Making or dealing in unauthorised decoders.
8.Prostitution and Child Sex
An offence under section 33 or 34 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956 – Keeping or letting premises for use as a brothel.
An offence under any of the following provisions of the Sexual Offences Act 2003:-
(a) section 14 Arranging or facilitating commission of a child sex offence
(b) section 48 Causing or inciting child prostitution or pornography
(c) section 49 Controlling a child prostitute or a child involved in pornography
(d)section 50 Arranging or facilitating child prostitution or pornography.
(e) section 52 Causing or inciting prostitution for gain
(f) section 53 Controlling prostitution for gain
9.Blackmail.
An offence under section 21 of the Theft Act 1968 – Blackmail
An offence under section 12(1) or (2) of the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004 – Acting as a gangmaster other than under the authority of a licence, possession of false documents etc.
10.Incohate Offences
An offence of attempting, conspiring or inciting the commission of an offence specified in this schedule.
An offence of aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of such an offence.
11.Any offence committed over a period of at least six months and the defendant has benefited from the conduct by at least £5000.
12.The defendant has been charged and convicted of four or more offences within these proceedings from which they have benefited by at least £5000 in total.
13. In the 6 years previous to present proceedings (ending the day when the present proceedings started) the defendant has been convicted on at least two separate occasions of an offence from which he has benefited by a total of £5000.
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