j4ckos mate

cant get on pprune to see the arguing,

im sure thats why half the people joined it

FlightMan

Pprune will be full of speculation for a day or two. Takes to long to wade through the chaff to get at the wheat after incidents like these.

Snazy

OK timeline suggests 4 hours into the flight, so I bow to thee FM
We shall await.

Im sure those more in the know will supply us with info as and when.

The Air France press conference gave all the times mixed up between Paris time and BST. Take off given in Paris time, loss of contact given in BST

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Heard an Air France plane relaying ATC requests (blindly) to AF447 over 121.50 this morning, probably were assuming lost comms.........

Does not look good.

Snazy

Not good at all

They are now being clearer about things, saying the message/comms was automated regarding the electrical fault, there was rapid decompression of the cabin, and that the plane disappeared almost instantly from radar.

I would expect if there was foul play by a major organisation they would be claiming it by now. So sounds like an explosion of sorts. Question now is, man made, or accidental. And the bigger question.... WHY!

They are still following up on a lightning strike.

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

There were some bad storms around the area, it is very possible.

They may have been avoiding the worst parts of the storm by going through the "less" worse parts if it was a squall line, and it is known that some radars do not work so well, AND sometimes deficient radar utilization can get you up the proverbial "creek" very fast!

Nonetheless it is REALLY bad.

Funkii Munkii

I have flown that route on AF, very sad news indeed, from what I was reading yesterday the last point of radar contact is off the NE Brazilian coast and it then relies on radio messages until it hit's the radars on the otherside of the Atlantic (or so i read).
I also noticed they're reffering to RIO/GIG (Galeao) as "Tom Jobim" airport, I have been to Rio more times than I can remember in the past 20 years and it's always been known as Galeao, although the full name is Galeao - Antonio Carlos Jobim, so where does Tom come into the equation, I know it's no time for being pedantic when those poor souls have perished.

RIP

dpb

Not such a small world after all ...

Dreadful for the relitives of course and the victims - could it really have gone straight down to the bottom ! ??

RobJenks

Video - Did lightning destroy Airbus? - The Age

This is an interesting comment from a pilot - Apparently these aircraft have an additional fuel tank in the rear tail plane . A vent exists here and is subject to an Australian air safety recommendation . Apparently if in the event of a lightening strike , the tank may explode!

chrisdicko

iTrader: (21)

Is there a list of people missing? Just heard a man from my town was on it.

sbk1972

Was shocked to hear this, and I feel so sorry for the familes.

What actually happens then if the plane splits up ?? At that height do you choke ?? Or are you awake as you free fall down ?? Can only imagine the noise / splash as the plne hits the water.

SBK

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

Depends on your bodies tolerances .. most people would pass out if the plan broke up with the pressure change, so wouldn't suffer.. those that didn't would likely pass out as the plane fell .. I can't see many if any being awake when the plan hits the water ... IMO

The Chief

If a plane breaks up mid-flight you are normally killed instantly due to the massive deceleration or so those programs on discovery say.

i've heard that if you survive and pass out on the way down you could in theory regain conciosuness as you decended to a lower altitude just to see the sea/ground coming towards you.

It doesn't bear thinking about.

Not good although i'm awaiting loads of sick feckin' texts to arrive very shortly.

billyray911

iTrader: (4)

Early reports that plane debris has been found by the Brazilian air force-400 miles NE of Brazil in Atlantic ocean

dpb

At least theyll only have had croissant for brekers

Leslie

The part of the South Atlantic where the aircraft was is known as the ITCZ or inter tropical combining zone. It is where the cooler northern air mixes with the equatorial hot air and the result can be enormous Cumulo Nimbus build ups which can stretch up to 50,000 ft +. We used to see those regularly on the way to Ascension Island in the VC10. We used to fly round them and on a bad day I have had to divert as much as 200 miles to find a gap to fly through.

No one with any sense would fly into a cu-nim cloud, especially of that size. It has enormous up and down drafts inside it which generate the type of turbulence which can easily take the wings off! This is on top of the heavy icing and risk of damage from very large hailstones. It is described as being like the inside of a washing machine-only worse. You also did not fly too close to them because they throw monstrous hailstones out of the top which can write an aircraft off by denting the entire skin.

A lightning strike is not as dangerous as it used to be on older aircraft although it can be frightening. It could upset the electrical services of the aircraft due to EMP however. I once had a bolt of lightning enter the canopy of a Canberra, go past my right knee and exit through the bottom of the aircraft! We landed very quickly after that! That came out of a clear sky with a cu-nim cloud about 4 miles away.

The real threat is from turbulence. I have experienced that so strong that it felt like a great big hammer hitting the aircraft. I had to call a mayday to get cleared down from my cleared height to get away from it.

I was once driving to RAF Marham underneath a large thunderstorm. A US transport aircraft was descending into one of the American airfields when it entered the storm and broke up with all being lost! We heard about it when I got to work.

Intense clear air turbulence can catch you out because you can't see it and the effects are so rapid that you may not be able to do anything to counteract it or even tell anyone about it before the damage becomes terminal. You are likely to be a bit occupied with the flying controls. Hard to say if that happened to the Air France machine, it was dark so they may have entered a cu-nim which was unseen although they should have seen it on the cloud warning radar.

The satellite weather pictures show a very large clump of heavy weather in the area that would be on their route.

Sorry if this went on a bit.

Les

boxst

Leslie ...

That was interesting. A pilot friend of mine always mentioned that turbulence wasn't really an issue most of the time and not to be worried?

As I don't like flying, he could just have been placating me of course!

Steve

sbk1972

Good man Leslie. Im amazed at the different skills, experiences, and jobs of the users of this site. Explains why I love it :-)

My next door neighbour used to be a 747 pilot for BA, until he got mandatorily laid off due to age. He often tells me of things he's seen up whilst flying, the numerous objects that have come up to the plane and shot off.

God only knows what happened up there with that plane, but one thing for sure, it wasnt good.

SBK

dpb

Thought they were exaggerating about golf ball sized hailstones , but we suffered the same in a storm on the Meuse , Belguim last week - these were BIGGER , denting all the cars around smashing greenhouses etc . Gale force for a while ,then lashed down - didnt last long !
Thankfully we were in something steel !

chrisdicko

iTrader: (21)

More or less confirmed my mates dad was on the flight

Will

Heard on the radio that pilot's have spoted a seat, life jacket and debris in the sea 400

miles from an brazilian island, and no sign of life

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

They have narrowed it down to an area of rocky islands.

We will have to wait to see if they can recover the CVR/FDR.

Also a TAM flight going the opposite way sighted burning debris in the ocean around the same time.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Suffice to say, large hailstones and planes don't mix too well: Metsul | Climatologia Urbana - Granizo em vôo é uma das maiores ameaças à aviação comercial

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Good find!

mit

iTrader: (10)

Aircraft are subject to lightning strikes quite often, you just don't know about it.
We've just had a A320 in at work, that had 30 strikes from above the cockpit, all the way down to just behind the wing. They are very good at dealing with these strikes, it's usually a case of a couple of static wicks that get damaged, and as with this one, some of the skins rivets need replaceing.

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Cant complain here.

Apart from the hearing loss!