Bubba po

Not really, Les. Times have moved on and so has language. Modern colloquial English language has more nuances than you could comprehend, I'll bet. As always, people who make great music speak honestly about their experiences, in the argot of their peer group. Sometimes I think you're being deliberately old-fashioned, like a caricature, almost.

Fabioso

I don't really get the people who stress over swearing. They are just words and used everyday in our language. If they are used appropriately i.e. not in every sentence to express something then I don't see what the big deal is.

I would encourage anyone young or old to express themselves using whatever words they deem necessary in the right context. It seems to me the only people who give a toss about these words are older generations and religious types. Personally I couldn't care a less if someone uses the C or F word. I don't think anyone should be using these words as every other word in a sentence as that reduces the impact and just highlights a lack of education.

Sometimes it can be the best word to convey something succinctly.

I knew all the swear words by about 7 or 8, did it affect my life in any detrimental way? ...... No!

Dan Gleebits

there have been songs with various *blue* lyrics for years.. I grew up listening to the likes of Judge Dredd/Dread with his racy double entendres, then listened to the likes of the Pistols, Crass et al, so todays lyrics are nothing new, its as Bub said, just a different peer group talking the language of the time..

wayne9t9

Is there any scientific evidence anywhere that listening to certain words in songs changes your behaviour? If it does your probably nuts already...

davyboy

I'm not.....I'm wondering if anyone has had to explain some partucular intersting song lyrics to their daughter.

When we listen to the radio abroad the swear words are not removed, and my 11 year old can handle that and we share a look and a smile......no problem, she'd never says them in front of me, although she hears me say them on occassion.

Having to answer the question "Why does he not make her scream" and watching her sing along to the lyrics makes me a little more uncomfortable.

dpb

Its not the ****ing swearing thats at fault tho ( altough its a cheap draw as far as im concerned)

Her writers , and lets not be daft , she probably doesnt write them ! - are having a go at the male population . She performed a song previously much along the same theme , or at least one of her close contempories did ...

Leslie

That really is not the point. If modern colloquial English has to be peppered with obscene or offensive language than it seems to me that the speaker is unable to express himself adequately in the first place. Its a matter of whether it should be necessary to use such words which don't actually add any kind of meaning to the subject but the meaning of those words is accepted as being offensive and unnecessary. One can only think that the person using those words is trying to bolster up what he is saying because of perhap's a feeling of underconfidence. Incidentally I was not talking about any particular song but about general conversation. In such a case however, What is the value of spoiling some good music by using what you call the "argot" of a peer group? Seems particularly immature to me. I also think that is does no harm to allow children to grow up naturally keeping that initial innocence without hearing that sort of language at a very young age. Songs on the media full of bad language don't help in that respect and are also highly unimpressive to boot. Do you like hearing young children using that sort of language?

You can accuse me of being old fashioned all you want. Even with an obvious undercurrent of criticism to go with it! I really don't care!

If "old fashioned" means that I prefer to do without unpleasant and offensive words in a conversation, then I would say that would be far better generally than what you are advocating. Being "modern" does not automatically mean that it is good!

Les

Paul3446

I'm not massively keen on swearing in songs, but in certain instances it can add a sense of anger or frustration and be a positive thing.

I don't include Lily Allen in this category by the way, she's just rubbish and swearing for the sake of it. But Green Day or Elliott Smith, or John Leenon to go back a bit further have all used swear words effectively to make a real strong point.

I think the reality lies somewhere between Lily Allen and Les!

I have to say that my children would not be owning these kind of albums until they were much older. I also don't care much for the attitude of some posters saying their 10 year olds regularly play songs that contain constant f words. Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned myself, but in my opinion that's just shocking parenting!

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

I can see the point Leslie but swearing can be ok in context.

Of course you don't want it in day to day conversation (That guy from ***** of Steel spring to mind "three ****in' cheeseburgers, a ****in' Big Mac and some ****in' diddy donuts ****er"

But if it is used to convey a meaning then i think it is ok. In songs and films parents about actual swear words so there is a responsibility there for the parents to not let the kids listen if they don't want.

That Rage Against The Machine tune i posted is a good example. It works with and without the swearing but for me it is a more powerful with it in as it is an anti racism tune having a go at those in power

"You justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites...

"Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses...

"And now you do what they told ya, now you're under control ...

"**** you, I won't do what you tell me."

I wouldn't let the wee one listen but as a tune i like it.

5t.

Jonnys3

I would have to agree with Les. I have many CDs with parental advisory lyrics, most of which were purchased during my early 20s, I might add. Since that time I've had kids and now cannot listen to the majority of those CDs when the kids are around as I don't want them imitating the "offensive" language. If those CDs weren't full of expletives I could still listen to them as often now as I did when I first purchased them. I have no problems with my kids listening to songs such as Lily Allen's 'It's not fair' because it doesn't contain swearing, they're too innocent to understand the underlying theme, and it has a catchy tune which they are entitled to appreciate (I too was in a similar position when I was a child singing along innocently to the likes of Madonna's hit 'Like A Virgin' - the tune was catchy and because I was too young to understand what the song was really about my parents didn't mind me listening to it). However, when it comes to songs nowadays I prefer them without the "offensive" slurs so that I can play them whilst the kids are around. Consequently my daughters are fast becoming big Metallica fans (even though they're only 8yrs and 5yrs) as I like my music loud and heavey and Metallica do this without using expletives.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Excellent point jonny... don't let them listen to Metallica's "So What" as pointed out in my first post!

EDIT - even with the *** is still isn't really work safe so link for those that need it...

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/m/metalli..._20092017.html

A regular at the concerts it is actually on some import versions of The Black Album but its originally a british punk tune

5t

GC8WRX

Metallica are offensive


I bet you have a large died blonde mullet and fancy yourself as a guitar player!


So what if the child in question begins to really like metallica, and starts to google the band, then stories of groupie sex and drugs will pop up, not good for innocent eyes!


Seriously, why are you all so worried, the lyrics in any song are nothing compared to what i heard in the play ground by the time i was ten, kids hear swear words at school everyday!

I suggest you all stop molly coddling, the kids that arent allowed access to the "popular stuff" get ridiculed to death!

I remenber one kid at my shool whos parents wouldnt let him watch 18 films (he was 13, but we all watched them, our parents rented them), he had to move shools cos he was tortured every day by the normal kids!

Its a song, either turn the radio off or stop worrying who listens to it, there are bigger problems out there than lilly allens lyrics!

Leslie

I feel I have to say that when something bad or particularly irritating happens, I am as likely as anyone to mention just what I think about it in several ways! And with my background I can think of a few.

I just don't enjoy it being used in "normal" conversation for no good reason.

Les

Heretik

iTrader: (1)

Personally, for Lilly, I find this song rather embarressing; its not really the sort of thing you want to go and tell the world about is it?

(And I'd put money on the fact that its more Lillys problem than anyone elses)

Have to say, I dont like the way shes made an 'innocent' song with lyrics that have such adult overtone, especially when her music is prodominently aimed at kids. I just think its not in very good taste in this instance it just makes me cringe..

Just listened to Eminems new album -which is very offensive - but you have to let it go because he does it in such an over the top way it makes you laugh.. not in the greatest of tastes, but quite cathartic nether the less!

Jonnys3

At the moment it's purely about listening to the CDs and nothing more - besides, the wife and I always keep a very close eye on what the kids are looking at when on the internet.

It's not about molly coddling, it's called parenting. The kids are 8yrs and 5yrs old - until they are a few good years older, my wife and myself will be the judge of what's in their best interests.

Agreed

EddScott

A work mate doesn't let his 2 kids watch TV - at all! McDonalds is a myth and Coca Cola may as well be arsenic.

They live an alternative lifestyle and can't work out why the kids have gone through a school a year for the last 4 years and one of them they are looking to home teach.

Whether good or bad they are cut off from the things that kids talk about and are punished by the kids for it.

Thats an extreme but then we have relatives who don't give a monkeys about what the kids watch or listen to and they swear and curse like a bunch of squaddies.

We swear in our house and in the company of our daughter its without thinking and we apologise to her. Shes never sworn and those times she has its more an experiment to see what the outcome is rather than in inability to get her point across without the need of resorting to swearing. "Crap" is about as hard as she gets and we stopped that too.

billythekid

Its "this my sh*t, this my sh*t".

Rain Man by Eminem has to be one of the most amusing songs ever - not that you would hear it on the radio!