Brown Booed By Vets at D-Day Celebrations
08 June 2009, 06:33 PM
#91
I'm also old enough to remember a Tory government - several in fact. As well as several labour. It's always the Labour governments that leave the country in the sh%te. ALWAYS. Look up the facts.
As for insulting Flash. No need to. I thought Tony Blair was the worst PM that the UK had ever had. Until Flash arrived on the scene.
Dave
PS: actually it's a bit of a toss-up with Ted Heath. Him being the one that took us into the EEC ..... and we've been part of the Euro Project ever since. Until we're out there is no way anyone can sort out this country properly.
As for insulting Flash. No need to. I thought Tony Blair was the worst PM that the UK had ever had. Until Flash arrived on the scene.
Dave
PS: actually it's a bit of a toss-up with Ted Heath. Him being the one that took us into the EEC ..... and we've been part of the Euro Project ever since. Until we're out there is no way anyone can sort out this country properly.
The whole anti EU thing is just stupid, yes it needs a lot of fixing and it does cost. But the way the world is its better to be a part of the EU than a state of America. We are too small on our own, the days of the British empire are over, to be a big player we need the EU...Besides like it or not we ARE European so I find the whole anti European stuff a joke too(just check the history books).
As for Tony Blair, I don't get it, I'm no fan of the Iraq war, I do agree with the Afghan war(rather be fighting the buggers there than on the door step) but he has done many good things and is thought of highly round the world. Many of my foreign friends don't understand why we knocked him so much and they have a lot of respect for the guy.
This country is so fecking cynical now, people just seem too quick to judge and use tabloid headline inflammatory crp to knock anybody the media decide to take a dislike too. Its pathetic really....People talk of a "revolution", what a flippin joke, most people in this country couldn't be arsed to go out and vote let alone start a revolution!, no, much easier to shout and holler from the side lines and ridicule people that are actually trying to do things for the country.
The whole anti MP thing is making me sick now, its over hyped ***** if you ask me, I know people that work in government and they are perfectly normal decent people doing a bloomin hard job, one most on hear probably couldn't be arsed to do, especially as the pay is so crap. Yeah there are corrupt politicians as there are corrupt people in all walks of life. Most MPs though are just normal people trying to make a difference in a system that has long needed a good overhaul....Personally I say get rid of the party structure its too divisive for MPs and the electorate.
08 June 2009, 07:12 PM
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08 June 2009, 07:36 PM
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08 June 2009, 08:53 PM
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08 June 2009, 10:10 PM
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08 June 2009, 10:39 PM
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09 June 2009, 04:06 PM
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The point was, he used those talents for his own personal ambitions and never for the good of this country. His mantra was to lie virtually
continuously to us and the biggest one was to lead us to believe that Iraq had the capability to attack us within a very short time with WMD! He did all this for his own ambitions to send our troops to war which he stated filled him with pleasure and excitement, and to ingratiate himself with the clown president. Have you forgotten the "dodgy dossier" which was a copy of an article written some years before?, and the "interpretation" of intelligence to suit his own purposes?
How do you feel about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis who were killed and the destruction of their country? Let me remind you this was an illegal war since it is not permissible to invade a country for regime change which was the fallback excuse when WMD were found not to exist! there was no positive evidence that they did of course.
His achievements during his time in power did nothing worthwhile for our country!
Les
09 June 2009, 04:23 PM
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Billy Liar was a very good actor and also had the knack of swaying public opinion.
The point was, he used those talents for his own personal ambitions and never for the good of this country. His mantra was to lie virtually
continuously to us and the biggest one was to lead us to believe that Iraq had the capability to attack us within a very short time with WMD! He did all this for his own ambitions to send our troops to war which he stated filled him with pleasure and excitement, and to ingratiate himself with the clown president. Have you forgotten the "dodgy dossier" which was a copy of an article written some years before?, and the "interpretation" of intelligence to suit his own purposes?
How do you feel about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis who were killed and the destruction of their country? Let me remind you this was an illegal war since it is not permissible to invade a country for regime change which was the fallback excuse when WMD were found not to exist! there was no positive evidence that they did of course.
His achievements during his time in power did nothing worthwhile for our country!
Les
The point was, he used those talents for his own personal ambitions and never for the good of this country. His mantra was to lie virtually
continuously to us and the biggest one was to lead us to believe that Iraq had the capability to attack us within a very short time with WMD! He did all this for his own ambitions to send our troops to war which he stated filled him with pleasure and excitement, and to ingratiate himself with the clown president. Have you forgotten the "dodgy dossier" which was a copy of an article written some years before?, and the "interpretation" of intelligence to suit his own purposes?
How do you feel about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis who were killed and the destruction of their country? Let me remind you this was an illegal war since it is not permissible to invade a country for regime change which was the fallback excuse when WMD were found not to exist! there was no positive evidence that they did of course.
His achievements during his time in power did nothing worthwhile for our country!
Les
Why do you stay here, you are destined for continual frustration and anger, I promise you the next government will be very similar
09 June 2009, 04:46 PM
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I only say these things because someone has to try to keep you close to the realms of common sense for your own good of course!
Les
09 June 2009, 04:50 PM
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Well maybe...but I still prefer facts to guesswork and opinion
09 June 2009, 06:35 PM
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09 June 2009, 06:40 PM
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09 June 2009, 06:43 PM
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09 June 2009, 06:47 PM
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09 June 2009, 07:11 PM
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When it comes down to brass tacks the veterans earned the right to be there by their actions. Brown had not.
If the Vet's booed Brown then they have earned the right to do so and lets face it without them and thier actions likely we would not be here to debate the matter!
If the Vet's booed Brown then they have earned the right to do so and lets face it without them and thier actions likely we would not be here to debate the matter!
09 June 2009, 08:38 PM
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09 June 2009, 09:51 PM
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10 June 2009, 09:29 AM
#112
Morning all,
Got back from Normandy last night and just found this interesting(!) thread.
I was at Arromanches, standing just behind the cameraman in that YouTube link; GB was booed by some veterans and their families, as well as others from the UK. Other veterans were holding placards about getting the troops out of Afghanistan, Unjust wars, etc.
A French woman asked me why the British were booing (if you weren't at the front of the crowd you could hardly see a thing) and I explained that Brown wasn't popular and the veterans would rather have the Queen represent them (quite a few had the picture of her on that Les mentioned earlier). She said "ah, we understand, we have the midget man who appears wherever cameras are!" No love for Sarkozy from any of the French to whom I spoke either.
Bear in mind that a large proportion of the veterans prefer not to be at Arromanches for what they see as a performing monkey's media circus; they hold their own quiet, dignified ceremonies in the towns and villages around the countryside where their mates fell, or in the many CWGC cemetries around Normandy where their pals and comrades rest.
There were other ceremonies at Arromanches on the days before & after the main one on the 6th - all dignified and attended by no media circus, with respectful silence for the fallen as the flags were lowered, and applause and genuine gratitude for "les Veterans" from the French and the English who had travelled over.
Unfortunately Arromanches on the 6th was a major ****-up on the organisation front. There was little or no shelter for the elderly (as one veteran said - "I had enough standing or lying in French rain to last me a lifetime during the war") - they all hate the rain. The Gendarmerie etc. closed off a lot of foot traffic when the politicians were coming so that many of the veterans in wheelchairs, and even the bandsmen who were due to perform couldn't get through to the main area outside the museum!
I did have to laugh at one veteran's comment of "Gawd, if the French had been in charge of planning the invasion, I'd still be on the boat at Portsmouth!"
It was good to go over and honour those who fell, chat to those who were lucky and came back, and see the affection and respect the French have for the old boys - remember, the anniversary is about them (living and dead), not some here-today, gone-tomorrow politicos.
Steve
Got back from Normandy last night and just found this interesting(!) thread.
I was at Arromanches, standing just behind the cameraman in that YouTube link; GB was booed by some veterans and their families, as well as others from the UK. Other veterans were holding placards about getting the troops out of Afghanistan, Unjust wars, etc.
A French woman asked me why the British were booing (if you weren't at the front of the crowd you could hardly see a thing) and I explained that Brown wasn't popular and the veterans would rather have the Queen represent them (quite a few had the picture of her on that Les mentioned earlier). She said "ah, we understand, we have the midget man who appears wherever cameras are!" No love for Sarkozy from any of the French to whom I spoke either.
Bear in mind that a large proportion of the veterans prefer not to be at Arromanches for what they see as a performing monkey's media circus; they hold their own quiet, dignified ceremonies in the towns and villages around the countryside where their mates fell, or in the many CWGC cemetries around Normandy where their pals and comrades rest.
There were other ceremonies at Arromanches on the days before & after the main one on the 6th - all dignified and attended by no media circus, with respectful silence for the fallen as the flags were lowered, and applause and genuine gratitude for "les Veterans" from the French and the English who had travelled over.
Unfortunately Arromanches on the 6th was a major ****-up on the organisation front. There was little or no shelter for the elderly (as one veteran said - "I had enough standing or lying in French rain to last me a lifetime during the war") - they all hate the rain. The Gendarmerie etc. closed off a lot of foot traffic when the politicians were coming so that many of the veterans in wheelchairs, and even the bandsmen who were due to perform couldn't get through to the main area outside the museum!
I did have to laugh at one veteran's comment of "Gawd, if the French had been in charge of planning the invasion, I'd still be on the boat at Portsmouth!"
It was good to go over and honour those who fell, chat to those who were lucky and came back, and see the affection and respect the French have for the old boys - remember, the anniversary is about them (living and dead), not some here-today, gone-tomorrow politicos.
Steve
10 June 2009, 01:01 PM
#114
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The facts are my friend that this is a global problem and not caused (as many would like to think) by Brown or the UK come to that, it started in the US. The reason we have been hit so hard is due to our reliance on the banking and servicing industry. Now you could fairly blame Brown for some of that as he continued with Tory policy of giving the banks more and more freedom, and didn't do enough to help our industrial sectors that got demolished, or sold by the previous Tory government.
The whole anti EU thing is just stupid, yes it needs a lot of fixing and it does cost. But the way the world is its better to be a part of the EU than a state of America. We are too small on our own, the days of the British empire are over, to be a big player we need the EU...Besides like it or not we ARE European so I find the whole anti European stuff a joke too(just check the history books).
As for Tony Blair, I don't get it, I'm no fan of the Iraq war, I do agree with the Afghan war(rather be fighting the buggers there than on the door step) but he has done many good things and is thought of highly round the world. Many of my foreign friends don't understand why we knocked him so much and they have a lot of respect for the guy.
This country is so fecking cynical now, people just seem too quick to judge and use tabloid headline inflammatory crp to knock anybody the media decide to take a dislike too. Its pathetic really....People talk of a "revolution", what a flippin joke, most people in this country couldn't be arsed to go out and vote let alone start a revolution!, no, much easier to shout and holler from the side lines and ridicule people that are actually trying to do things for the country.
The whole anti MP thing is making me sick now, its over hyped ***** if you ask me, I know people that work in government and they are perfectly normal decent people doing a bloomin hard job, one most on hear probably couldn't be arsed to do, especially as the pay is so crap. Yeah there are corrupt politicians as there are corrupt people in all walks of life. Most MPs though are just normal people trying to make a difference in a system that has long needed a good overhaul....Personally I say get rid of the party structure its too divisive for MPs and the electorate.
The whole anti EU thing is just stupid, yes it needs a lot of fixing and it does cost. But the way the world is its better to be a part of the EU than a state of America. We are too small on our own, the days of the British empire are over, to be a big player we need the EU...Besides like it or not we ARE European so I find the whole anti European stuff a joke too(just check the history books).
As for Tony Blair, I don't get it, I'm no fan of the Iraq war, I do agree with the Afghan war(rather be fighting the buggers there than on the door step) but he has done many good things and is thought of highly round the world. Many of my foreign friends don't understand why we knocked him so much and they have a lot of respect for the guy.
This country is so fecking cynical now, people just seem too quick to judge and use tabloid headline inflammatory crp to knock anybody the media decide to take a dislike too. Its pathetic really....People talk of a "revolution", what a flippin joke, most people in this country couldn't be arsed to go out and vote let alone start a revolution!, no, much easier to shout and holler from the side lines and ridicule people that are actually trying to do things for the country.
The whole anti MP thing is making me sick now, its over hyped ***** if you ask me, I know people that work in government and they are perfectly normal decent people doing a bloomin hard job, one most on hear probably couldn't be arsed to do, especially as the pay is so crap. Yeah there are corrupt politicians as there are corrupt people in all walks of life. Most MPs though are just normal people trying to make a difference in a system that has long needed a good overhaul....Personally I say get rid of the party structure its too divisive for MPs and the electorate.
This lot have lied to us for the entire 12 years that they have been in power. They have broken promises and put us in the position of being a major terrorist target with their illegal war on Iraq. All that was for their own selfish reasons and certainly not for our good. They have wasted our taxes on rubbish policies and very strange ideas and ruined the work ethic both with their welfare policies and also their target run society.
They made the economy look good with their overborrowing lying to us about stopping Boom/Bust and not constructing any kind of a reserve in case of "a rainy day" and in fact flogging the reserves off-for next to nothing. Well that Bust has arrived now in Spades! Nothing left to cope with that and all due to their gross ineptitude in monitoring the financial industry. Now we are borrowing the money which belongs to our descendants and printing more as well just to keep going! How can you possibly give them any kind of praise I ask? They have not yet started to tax that back yet-still living on borrowed money-wait until that runs out!
Now we have found the scaly MP's out with their venal theft of our money for their own financial benefit telling us it was all really an honest mistake and stealing public money was all "within the rules"!
Are you really surprised that people might just become a bit cynical after all that.
Can you justify all that? can you really support an organisation over the channel which is totally corrupt and whose finances have not been passed by the auditors for some 14 years! Where have the billions of euro's which have disappeared without trace gone? Are you prapared to trust them to run your life and your country? Norway is actually doing rather well by the way with their EFTA agreement!
Les
10 June 2009, 07:39 PM
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Morning all,
Got back from Normandy last night and just found this interesting(!) thread.
I was at Arromanches, standing just behind the cameraman in that YouTube link; GB was booed by some veterans and their families, as well as others from the UK. Other veterans were holding placards about getting the troops out of Afghanistan, Unjust wars, etc.
A French woman asked me why the British were booing (if you weren't at the front of the crowd you could hardly see a thing) and I explained that Brown wasn't popular and the veterans would rather have the Queen represent them (quite a few had the picture of her on that Les mentioned earlier). She said "ah, we understand, we have the midget man who appears wherever cameras are!" No love for Sarkozy from any of the French to whom I spoke either.
Bear in mind that a large proportion of the veterans prefer not to be at Arromanches for what they see as a performing monkey's media circus; they hold their own quiet, dignified ceremonies in the towns and villages around the countryside where their mates fell, or in the many CWGC cemetries around Normandy where their pals and comrades rest.
There were other ceremonies at Arromanches on the days before & after the main one on the 6th - all dignified and attended by no media circus, with respectful silence for the fallen as the flags were lowered, and applause and genuine gratitude for "les Veterans" from the French and the English who had travelled over.
Unfortunately Arromanches on the 6th was a major ****-up on the organisation front. There was little or no shelter for the elderly (as one veteran said - "I had enough standing or lying in French rain to last me a lifetime during the war") - they all hate the rain. The Gendarmerie etc. closed off a lot of foot traffic when the politicians were coming so that many of the veterans in wheelchairs, and even the bandsmen who were due to perform couldn't get through to the main area outside the museum!
I did have to laugh at one veteran's comment of "Gawd, if the French had been in charge of planning the invasion, I'd still be on the boat at Portsmouth!"
It was good to go over and honour those who fell, chat to those who were lucky and came back, and see the affection and respect the French have for the old boys - remember, the anniversary is about them (living and dead), not some here-today, gone-tomorrow politicos.
Steve
Got back from Normandy last night and just found this interesting(!) thread.
I was at Arromanches, standing just behind the cameraman in that YouTube link; GB was booed by some veterans and their families, as well as others from the UK. Other veterans were holding placards about getting the troops out of Afghanistan, Unjust wars, etc.
A French woman asked me why the British were booing (if you weren't at the front of the crowd you could hardly see a thing) and I explained that Brown wasn't popular and the veterans would rather have the Queen represent them (quite a few had the picture of her on that Les mentioned earlier). She said "ah, we understand, we have the midget man who appears wherever cameras are!" No love for Sarkozy from any of the French to whom I spoke either.
Bear in mind that a large proportion of the veterans prefer not to be at Arromanches for what they see as a performing monkey's media circus; they hold their own quiet, dignified ceremonies in the towns and villages around the countryside where their mates fell, or in the many CWGC cemetries around Normandy where their pals and comrades rest.
There were other ceremonies at Arromanches on the days before & after the main one on the 6th - all dignified and attended by no media circus, with respectful silence for the fallen as the flags were lowered, and applause and genuine gratitude for "les Veterans" from the French and the English who had travelled over.
Unfortunately Arromanches on the 6th was a major ****-up on the organisation front. There was little or no shelter for the elderly (as one veteran said - "I had enough standing or lying in French rain to last me a lifetime during the war") - they all hate the rain. The Gendarmerie etc. closed off a lot of foot traffic when the politicians were coming so that many of the veterans in wheelchairs, and even the bandsmen who were due to perform couldn't get through to the main area outside the museum!
I did have to laugh at one veteran's comment of "Gawd, if the French had been in charge of planning the invasion, I'd still be on the boat at Portsmouth!"
It was good to go over and honour those who fell, chat to those who were lucky and came back, and see the affection and respect the French have for the old boys - remember, the anniversary is about them (living and dead), not some here-today, gone-tomorrow politicos.
Steve
11 June 2009, 12:55 PM
#116
No problem, thought it might be useful to have some info from someone who was there.
As always it's exciting/awe inspiring/humbling/etc. to talk to these old boys who are just so matter of fact about the whole thing when they talk about it, what they saw and did.
Deep, deep respect for them all, no matter what role they played.
Steve
As always it's exciting/awe inspiring/humbling/etc. to talk to these old boys who are just so matter of fact about the whole thing when they talk about it, what they saw and did.
Deep, deep respect for them all, no matter what role they played.
Steve
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