steve McCulloch

Chins

So the P1 is an sti5 with the worst bits removed.

I see the Prodrive hype has worked on you then. If you belive that then more fool you!

I dont care about the debate, its Pro's and cons - the P1 certainly does have some improvements - but its at a price - but if you feel more comfortable with dealer back up and warranty then ok

I would not swap my sti5 for a P1 - as I've spend too much on it. I didnt want a two door - not practical for me - if they had done a 4 door I would have been prepared to pay about £1k more for the car (i.e about £23k - based on the current prices of the sti6's) - and thats just for the Alloys and nice spolier - I didnt really note any other significant changes - I would probably have junked the ECU anyway

Neil F

Craig H.

What I described to you is the blueprinting process by definition (as I understand it).
I have rebuilt various engines and have had the crank-piston-con rod sets balanced by firms such as Gosnays and Burton; it is not a big deal and standard procedure for performance tuning.
I have a Japanese brochure for the Impreza range covering the STi5 model range and it says that the engines are blueprinted, as does the SIDC FAQ (a Japanese friend translated the brochure for me before you state the obvious).

There are other internals changes on the STi engine, including solid lifters which will allow performance at high revs, so I concede there may be something in that, but I cannot believe it is for that reason alone that an engine can push another 800rpm.

As for the production run, I only said "I believe" it is 500 units (which would include 3-4 and 5 door models) but regardless of the figure they are certainly viewed as a limited run.
There were 1000 P1's produced but remember that it was originally supposed to be 500 (which is probably where I got mixed up).

Neil.

CraigH

Neil,

I know what you mean about blueprinting - I'm just telling you my own experience of inspecting my crank etc.....

jason b

PEOPLE, PEOPLE FIRSTLY THE STANDARD FUEL IN JAPAN IS 100RON BUT AS IN ENGLAND DUM F**K THERE IS ALSO A SUPER WHICH IS 102RON I WAS ONLY THEIR 9 MNTHS AGO.
P1 NOT BEING ABLE TO KEEP UP LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
BEEN IN AN STIV AND MY OLD 290BHP GTI-R WOULD PULL AWAY FROM YOU I AM SORRY TO SAY.

jason b

SORRY STI5 NOT 4.

steve McCulloch

Jason B

Been in a GTI r - what a load of hype! - you may have faster acceleration if its modded - but as soon as you come across a bend then its game over - the handling on these cars is awful , as it the brakes, the interior - in fact just about everything - I had more fun in a modded Citreon AX GT than one of these 'heaps'

I still have to laugh that people think the P1 is faster than an sti4/5 - If you want to believe it then do - thats your problem

Lewis

Allow a newbie to join the party.
I used to own a standard WRX but sold it after 6 months and changed to an STI type R, so i know the difference.
In brief STI is a better car with a lot of difference which is diffinately worth the extra bit to from your pocket.
1) Engine is different, won't discuss in detail for other components but just the Forge piston worth it all. Its lighter in weight, much stronger means can stand very high heat thus allow for higher boost pressure, running at 19 psi at track won't give you a problem for Forge piston (with proper ECU setup) where standard wrx's piston would have melted. In brief, this engine give you much higher potential for mod.
2) Aluminum engine hood.
3) Better font seats, won't slide at hard braking because material is made of similar to saude type of fabric.
4) Close ratio gearbox (STI type R, STI RA and standard wrx RA only) and short shifter
5) Better tyres used on STI
6) Ball bearing turbo (VF series)
7) Alloy suspension mounting arms means lighter thus reduced the unsprung weight (better handling)
8) 4 piston calipers (front), 2 piston (rear)
9) ECU programming is also different compare to standard, better response
10) Better flow intercooler with alloy "Y" pipe (standard wrx use plastic pipe, won't last when at higher boost)

Guess i should stop here, i maybe getting un-welcome to someone.....

Neil F

Thanks Lewis, for your sensible input after Jason B tried to reduce this thread to the level of a Max Power article (of which I've no doubt he is an avid reader).
I especially don't like being called a "dum f**k" by someone who doesn't even know me, which, luckily for him is probably just as well.

I would like to see Jason B's "input" deleted from this thread, along with this post if the moderator thinks necessary.

Neil.

Yee

Errrr my 94 WRX has an Aluminium bonnet (hood) aluminium lower suspension arms and the same front seats as fitted to a STI (as standard)

I’m not saying it's better and I’m sure the engine is stronger and I like the looks of the STI better (IMHO).

And it was also going to cost me more to insure a STI

Yee

jason b

Neil sorry if i went over the top but yesterday was a very BAD day ( no joke!).
Firstly as for the petrol debate in japan 102ron is rare but availible, also the 262bhp P1 may be true figures but my guess is that it was ran on normal unleaded, which would give that figure or their-abouts.
I take the point about the gti-r ( understeer city ) and the lack of handling but when you are running between 1 and 1.3 bar with better brakes and suspension then you are talking about a different planet never mind league with a capable 1.6bar boost it becomes a test of neck and stomach muscles.P1 slower that 4 or 5 if so do you have the evidence to back this up if so please reply.
jason b.

Neil F

You're trying to start that old debate again!

There is no winner, because each driver will always choose his own car.
I can't really go for your "favourite" though.
I can't see how you can go for a PPP'd car if you've tasted the STi experience; there is no substitute.
And don't even think about suggesting an EVO, I've seen one at Brands (rear view mirror) and it didn't meet the requirements

Neil, in a kind of "oh go on then, I'll rise to the bait" mood.

PS, where's Bruntingthorpe?

Hoppy

Hi Neil. Yeah, that old debate again! The difference is, this time I can prove it.

No no! Please don't rise to that one. Life's too short. I have to confess I've never driven an STi but I'd like to. Must be a real buzz over 6,000. My point is that below those kind of revs a UK PPP car is faster.

So you're up for Bruntingthorpe then? It could be a great hoot. The Glastonbury Festival for Scoobs (without the mud). It's a huge old airfield near Leicester, used by most car and bike mags for speed testing.

Richard Hopkins.

Neil F

Jason B.

Fair do's, apology accepted.
I seem to remember a guy who posts as Jonathon on here had a P1 on which he ran on a rolling road on 95RON.
As I recall the figures were well down; and maybe into the 260bhp region (could someone confirm?).
I think the story was that Subara UK said that the obvious compromise caused the drop in power and that the 280bhp figure is obtained only on 97RON.
I'm not sure if Jonathon had a subsequent session on 97RON.

Neil

Hoppy

Great debate guys! I've had some enforced time off this week and you would not believe how all this sounds just like Kilroy. Everybody arguing different points from a different context. Have to say it's fun reading, though

Anyone had a look at the Dyno pages (click on bar top of page)? It says to me that an obsession with peak power is a very misleading guide to road performance, but if that's your bag, then there's a fairly standard P1 on there putting out 287 brake at 7,400, running 97 RON. There are very few cars able to match that, and they're all highly modded.

And here's my pet argument. The best value £s-for-performance car is a UK00 with PPP and a brake upgrade. Quickest on the road (huge mid-range torque, like 260 lb/ft) and cheapest to buy/run.

Anybody care to debate?

Hoppy

PS Who's up for the ultimate test day at Bruntingthorpe or somewhere? A hundred Scoobs, miles of space, proper timing gear, maga fun.

chrisp

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hoppy:
<B>
I have to confess I've never driven an STi but I'd like to. Must be a real buzz over 6,000. My point is that below those kind of revs a UK PPP car is faster.

[/quote]


I thought this while I owned a UK turbo until I brought the RA. The low gearing is awesome for acceleration, there is no lag . The boost starts at 2,500 and really flys at 5,000 rpm. The engine gets to 2,500 with a slight brush on the loud pedal due to the lower gearing. The UK was noticably laggy upto 3,000, in comparison okay in didnt have the PPP which may have helped it a little but not by the margin between my UK and import.

cheers

chrisp

Gussie Cup

Guys - Bruntingthorpe seems like a great idea. I don't think you'd have any trouble finding people to fill the places.

As for the 'which is best' debate, I've driven 3 WRXs, 1 STI3 and an STI3 Type-R. (The quick rack and gearbox in the Type-R were fantastic!) Ended up with a great WRX as the STI (for a model I wanted) were out of my price range 14 months ago.

I have to say that although on the dyno my modded MY94 puts out higher figures than a standard STI (284.5bhp on 97 RON), the 2 STIs were more 'entertaining' and due to the gearing/different torque split, would probably out-perform mine in most situations.

You can modify any WRX to produce similar performance and figures to the STI. You won't have the STI engine to start from but in the 'real world', I don't know how much you would feel the difference.

I love 'em all - they all have different benefits - its just a question of 'Do you need that pink badge'? I thought I did but now I'm not so sure

Gussie Cup

Forgot to mention UK Specs - Haven't driven one but been out in a few with friends (all with Scoobysport full exhausts).

Not as mental at the top end as the imports but all had a lot of torque from about 3000rpm.

Still great fun!

Chins

Neil

I used to post as Jonathan untill a change of profile and email address.

My old P1 was dynod a couple of times. Once at PE the other at PS. At PE it had over 280bhp and at PS 263bhp. However that seems very much in keeping with other STI's. The P1 was exactly the same as my old STI V on the same rollers.

As for the PPP vs STI/P1. Having owned both I feel that the PPP is a more relaxed drive. Better low speed torque and drivability. All out accleration and on track the STI wins, but not by much and you need a long straight.

Best value for money Impreza to date is been the RB5 WR. Maybe not the best Impreza.

I'm going back to a MY01 WRX now. I will miss the power of an STI/P1, but like the new car. Will go for an STI when its released.

Jonathan

Neil F

My STi4 4door has the longer gearing (though a little shorter than UK) and things start to happen (in a big way) around the 3500 mark.
It's all standard except for the mandatory SS back box, I/C splitter, Eibach springs and ITG filter.
Personally I find all this stuff about "my UK car is faster in 3rd at 1002.7rpm" a bit strange; I just use the gearbox and the problem goes away! I mean I do have another 1000rpm at the top end to play with so I might as well use it.

For what it's worth, I would gladly have had a UK PPPd car, if I hadn't test driven an STi on the same day as I test drove the UK car:
It was boiling hot and the STi had climate control and a huge kick in the back that made me almost wet myself with fear/pleasure!
It was a done deal from there.

Neil.

harj

My last beast was a 97 WRX with 280BHP standard engine! there are a few differences between STI's and WRX's but my old car was far more superior with the mods I have compared to Linked STI's which had several thousand pounds spent on them!

My 1/4 mile time of 12.7 for a car with a Unichip says it all really as STI's with massive mods can't even get into the 12's .

Even Cossies with genuine 450BHP couldn't keep up down the Hanger Straight at Silverstone which shows that my old WRX was a great acheivement with the minor mods

STI's are great cars but to me when it comes to track or Drag Runs, theres nothing in the 2 I say.

Oh BTW there is no difference in Gearing between a 97WRX and an STI 4/5/6 and a 22B. All the same car except for the little differences above in other posts.

[This message has been edited by harj (edited 10 February 2001).]

DARREN

Could anybody tell me then please why my may 1996 sti 2 bounces off the limiter at 7200 rpm,i know its a proper sti2 from the chassis no,red manifold,seats,pink badges,water spray,strut brace etc........
Is it because i am yet to have it
de-restricted.112 mph@5100 rpm.Where could i get a de-restictor and are Torque
Development any good for a rolling road
tune.

PS.uk cars r nice but the sti is worth the
extra!!!!!

DARREN

Could anybody tell me then please why my may 1996 sti 2 bounces off the limiter at 7200 rpm,i know its a proper sti2 from the chassis no,red manifold,seats,pink badges,water spray,strut brace etc........
Is it because i am yet to have it
de-restricted.112 mph@5100 rpm.Where could i get a de-restictor and are Torque
Development any good for a rolling road
tune.

PS.uk cars r nice but the sti is worth the
extra!!!!!

CraigH

Harj,

There are a few STIs that can get into the 12s you know

And 22bs are shorter geared than WRXs and 4 door STIs

harj

Craig the 22B I have here is exactly the same gearing as my WRX, compared the 2 in gearing and theres nothing in it. The WRX had a standard box too.

steve McCulloch

As far as this debate goes - if I could go back in time I'd have imported a Turbo from the continent and had it chipped, probabbly put an antilift kit on with Prodrive geometry and left it at that

It would have cost me £14500 for the car and say and about £1000 for the chip and suspension work

I reckon it would have kept up with the standard sti/wrx - when I had a standard sti5 a prodrive UK turbo could keep up with me until 6000 revs

I think the wrx/sti debate is a bit of hype - part of the actula reason I opted for an sti over the wrx was that the wrx had a crap spoiler and I hated the black/yellow interior on the wrx (at the time of purchasing)

On the road there is very little in it at all. I have come across a few P1's - saw one in France! -(A uk one on hols) - he could even remotely keep up - but then mines not standard

I thought you coulg get RON 105 in Japan - the girlfriend lived there for 2 years and she says it was available about 6 years ago?

Neil F

Harj.

Doesn't it depend which 22B you get?
AFAIK a 22B Type UK has the same gearing as UK cars (or possibly the slightly shorter 4 door STi gearing) whereas the Jap 22B has the Type R (2 Door) gearing, which is what the car is actually based upon.

Also while I don't disbelieve you for a minute, why do you think that a WRX can to be tuned to better performance than an STi? It just seems a bit strange all things considered (Uprated internals etc etc).
Are you making a direct comparison to an STi that had exactly the same mods as yours?

Neil.

steve McCulloch

Harj

Why did ya get rid of the red WRX?

steve McCulloch

Jonathans P1

262HP and 235lbs of torque
I believe?
so thats about the same as an sti at PS

What I could never understand was why the power at wheels went all over the place - standard it was about 205hp, after I fitted A vf22 it was down to 187hp - spooky

I think we all need Anders to tour the country!! - and see once and for all whose RR is a load of bullsh*t

Am getting mine RR at Well lane this week - so we'll see how much the hp has gone up in relative terms

Anyway whatever the car - they are all pretty good - I have to think hard about what I would change my car to - anyone who has a Subaru turbo has a big grin and I no longer care if its a wrx/sti/uk - they are all excellent cars - and far better than crap like Cosworths (I used to own an Escort Cosworth so I'd know - and a S2 RS Turbo/xr2/modded ax gt/Astra GSI)

Neil F

I'll drink to that Steve!

I did start to think about my next purchase a little while ago and I just couldn't think what to go for.
I'm hooked on the driving experience of these types of car but short of getting a Skyline (which my missus would not drive) I don't see any point in changing to another Scoob when I'm so happy with the one I've got.
I've a feeling that my next car will be a late Type R V Limited, as I reckon along with Series McRaes, RB5 WR's, 22Bs etc, they'll become somewhat of a "classic".

Neil.

harj

My mistake lads the UK 22B does have different gearing, but I have tested the 22B against my old WRX and there is ZERO difference in gearing (sorry but its true!).

What I meant earlier was that how can my WRX be so quick when HIGHLY tuned STI's can't catch it? the internals were 97 std WRX, maybe its just the driver LOL

Steve I sold the WRX as I hadn't used it since August and it sat in my garage gathering dust, seeing as the 22B came along I didn't have any use for the WRX even though it was miles faster but the looks and handling on the 22B are unbeatable

The BSRT 22B is an awesome car all round