Doggy house/garden destruction
24 June 2009, 06:18 PM
#31
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I reckon you can walk a lab a long way - just don't run or cycle with it until at least 18 months old - even then cycling with any dog is pushing it. If they have a good hip score, they should be fine.
Ours has ended up looking a bit like a full on sprinter - all muscle, no fat! Helps to never ever feed them "human" food. Recent pic:
Ours has ended up looking a bit like a full on sprinter - all muscle, no fat! Helps to never ever feed them "human" food. Recent pic:
Agreed about the diet too. Ours get dog food lol.
As for the hip score, again I would have thought that was right. Same with Mals, good breeding, better health etc.
24 June 2009, 06:22 PM
#32
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The restriction on walking is really only during their first 6 months to a year of age. Once the bulk of their growth has happened then the exercise can increase. Ours had parents and grand parents with good hip scores but that doesn't mean her hips wouldn't knacker if I gave her too much exercise now. That is what is so frustrating, knowing she has lots of energy but I can't knacker her out for fear of affecting her growth.
24 June 2009, 06:25 PM
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The restriction on walking is really only during their first 6 months to a year of age. Once the bulk of their growth has happened then the exercise can increase. Ours had parents and grand parents with good hip scores but that doesn't mean her hips wouldn't knacker if I gave her too much exercise now. That is what is so frustrating, knowing she has lots of energy but I can't knacker her out for fear of affecting her growth.
I just thought the way it was put, that there was a serious issue with adult Lab hips
With ours we broke it up into about 3-4 walks a day, gently increasing the time, and allowing Tuv to decide when enough was enough. Never over doing it, but free play was always an important time.
24 June 2009, 06:31 PM
#34
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Yes stones she digs out the garden! But instead of dropping them she crunches them up as if they were boiled sweats. The digging of the garden has increased since we took up the gravel area in the garden and replaced with concreted in paving slabs. She now digs sodding great holes and finds nice large stones in the ground 
This is why i'm close to getting a muzzle this week. She has to stop eating stones.
In terms of proper search and retrieve no this isn't something i've done with her. I take it this involves hiding toys/food in the garden and getting her to find them?
This is why i'm close to getting a muzzle this week. She has to stop eating stones.In terms of proper search and retrieve no this isn't something i've done with her. I take it this involves hiding toys/food in the garden and getting her to find them?
24 June 2009, 06:37 PM
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What food is it on??? Bakers or some other cheap ****e??
Get it some good quality food with no additives, james wellbeloved, chudleys etc. Avoid cheaper stuff as it's full of stuff that makes them loopy....think kid on too much sugar and E numbers!!
Never had any issues with my lab but it's a lottery what you get.
My terrier was nuts till i changed his food.
Get it some good quality food with no additives, james wellbeloved, chudleys etc. Avoid cheaper stuff as it's full of stuff that makes them loopy....think kid on too much sugar and E numbers!!
Never had any issues with my lab but it's a lottery what you get.
My terrier was nuts till i changed his food.
24 June 2009, 06:52 PM
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No **** food for my dog thanks. She is on Royal Canin Labrador Junior and costs a bomb. The only more expensive one is Science Plan and i'm not buying that as it is pushed by the vet clinics and according to dog food nutritionists it isn't the best food either. Royal Canin is the 3rd lot of food she has been on since born, the breeder fed the pups cheap **** which I got her off straight away and the one I put her on made her even more hyper than she is now, she is calm now compared to what she was like on the previous food!!!
24 June 2009, 07:01 PM
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Your dog sounds like mine was, until I went to a certain trainer (Are you allowed to post websites on here?) Your dog may well think your pack leader but from what we went through with our Spaniel, until the dog is bossed around she won't change one bit.
Now she will do anything on command without food, and without very little voice command. Your voice is a reward to your dog, so unless shes followed a command do not speak to her, If she is naughty just put her in another room for a few mins, but always stay calm, remember shouting at her will mean reward to her. Dont put her in the cage where she sleeps as it will confuse her!
As when out and about, if the dog stops when walking just drag her, your taking her for a walk, "boss the dog" again stay calm tho we did this with ours and yes I had the odd comment but you know whats its got nothing to do with anybody else and if they wanna complain I would say ring my dog trainer.
After all its your dog and your the one having to live a nightmare at the mo.
Excersise is good but your dog will benifit more from 20mins training/working than a 2 hour walk as she's having to use her brain!
A calm dog is a happy dog.
Now she will do anything on command without food, and without very little voice command. Your voice is a reward to your dog, so unless shes followed a command do not speak to her, If she is naughty just put her in another room for a few mins, but always stay calm, remember shouting at her will mean reward to her. Dont put her in the cage where she sleeps as it will confuse her!
As when out and about, if the dog stops when walking just drag her, your taking her for a walk, "boss the dog" again stay calm tho we did this with ours and yes I had the odd comment but you know whats its got nothing to do with anybody else and if they wanna complain I would say ring my dog trainer.
After all its your dog and your the one having to live a nightmare at the mo.
Excersise is good but your dog will benifit more from 20mins training/working than a 2 hour walk as she's having to use her brain!
A calm dog is a happy dog.
24 June 2009, 07:01 PM
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Ah fair enough, makes a change as most feed ****e!
It may be teething hence the chewing??
Try putting tabasco or chilli paste on items being chewed this will help stop the damage to the house. Failing that i would get to a pro trainer to sort out the niggly issues before they become habit.
It may be teething hence the chewing??
Try putting tabasco or chilli paste on items being chewed this will help stop the damage to the house. Failing that i would get to a pro trainer to sort out the niggly issues before they become habit.
24 June 2009, 07:29 PM
#39
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Yep only goes in her crate at night or if we go out and she stays at home and never when told off. If she is naughty she gets put in the utility room and the door shut. That's when she bit the skirting board and the walls lol, it only takes her a second to bite something.
And yes teething has been happening, she has lost her puppy teeth and the adult teeth are still coming through so this all part of it, she just seems to be taking it to an extreme with how much she chews. Her jaws must be outrageously strong to crunch up stones the way she does.
She farts enough as it is so don't want her having any hot sauces as a deterrent
And yes teething has been happening, she has lost her puppy teeth and the adult teeth are still coming through so this all part of it, she just seems to be taking it to an extreme with how much she chews. Her jaws must be outrageously strong to crunch up stones the way she does.
She farts enough as it is so don't want her having any hot sauces as a deterrent
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 24 June 2009 at 07:31 PM.
24 June 2009, 07:32 PM
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24 June 2009, 08:44 PM
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I think it depends if you are associated with the link in anyway as to whether it constitutes advertising.
Just got back from the woods with her, walked perfectly all the way down there had a good run about off the lead and then as soon as we got out the otherside to come home on the lead she starts the messing about and refusing to walk. Literally dragged her all the way home the stubborn little wotnot
Just got back from the woods with her, walked perfectly all the way down there had a good run about off the lead and then as soon as we got out the otherside to come home on the lead she starts the messing about and refusing to walk. Literally dragged her all the way home the stubborn little wotnot
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 24 June 2009 at 08:45 PM.
24 June 2009, 08:53 PM
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Dylan's "bird" Munch is just the same, the bad news is that she's had an hours "squaddie" march three times a day, since her jabs were completed.
Her owner has one of those plastic tennis ball projectile thingies capable of propelling a ball into the upper atmosphere. She adores our fat lazy six year old Staffie-Lab.X. he (no nuts !) doesn't give a damn.
I'd say she's old enough to do more walking mileage, IMHO. At six months Dylan needed about four miles after work, just to reduce his hyper-active behaviour between 8 PM and 9 PM.
Finally, I found that my fella (R.I.P.) was less bother because I got him to accept me as boss during the first month, ( he was being aggressive towards his sister, (food related).... So I bit him ! ).
Good Luck with the training.
dunx
Her owner has one of those plastic tennis ball projectile thingies capable of propelling a ball into the upper atmosphere. She adores our fat lazy six year old Staffie-Lab.X. he (no nuts !) doesn't give a damn.
I'd say she's old enough to do more walking mileage, IMHO. At six months Dylan needed about four miles after work, just to reduce his hyper-active behaviour between 8 PM and 9 PM.
Finally, I found that my fella (R.I.P.) was less bother because I got him to accept me as boss during the first month, ( he was being aggressive towards his sister, (food related).... So I bit him ! ).
Good Luck with the training.
dunx
24 June 2009, 09:02 PM
#46
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oh i play run away games from her but she is too quick for me to hide plus there is only the shed to hind behind so not too difficult to find me even for her Fetch is something she is stubborn with too. She has turned that into she chases after the ball/kong/frisbee and runs back with it but 10 feet before she gets to me she veers off and tries to make me chase after her to get the item back. Fetch to order currently is being worked on but even for treats tonight she wouldn't do it (20 mins playing/attempted training in the garden after the walk).
Fetch is something she is stubborn with too. She has turned that into she chases after the ball/kong/frisbee and runs back with it but 10 feet before she gets to me she veers off and tries to make me chase after her to get the item back. Fetch to order currently is being worked on but even for treats tonight she wouldn't do it (20 mins playing/attempted training in the garden after the walk).
24 June 2009, 09:26 PM
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Bravo, I've joined this thread late so I'll try and cover what I can. I always say that puppies aren't for anybody but those that are with them 24/7 and have them for a purpose, i.e. Police, Protection or Sport. UNLESS of course you are prepared to put up with hell. 
A puppy can be far worse than a baby.
I've brought on lots of puppies but I'm fortunate enough to be around them all day every day and their training is real training if I want more than just a pet. Dogs that absolutely know their position won't challenge your authority at all. The trainers I know who buy Police, Protection or Sport dogs through me are serious about the dog's function and so require a puppy that shows certain qualities from an early age. If they don't they are deemed 'pet' quality and sold accordingly.
Obviously pet requirements are different but good obedience is always a must. Walking her off the lead from an early age has given her the wrong signals and in her mind anything less isn't good enough now. Basic obedience starts with tight heeling on a lead until that is learned. People think that is unfair but actually it is more unfair to the dog to not put in boundaries.
Toys shouldn't be given to them either if you're not playing with them at the time. The toys are YOURS that you allow the dogs to play with and they only come out when YOU want to play. Again, you SHOULD play regularly but then put the toys away. My 2 hounds wail like banshees when I mention 'ropes'. That level of excitement from a stupid bit of knotted rope is only because they regard it as a pleasure. Toys lying around are no fun and really only serve to exasperate boredom.
You mention she is food driven so reward her on YOUR terms. Don't think you are giving in to her demands. A common mistake made by so many is thinking the puppy is in charge. It's a PUPPY and knows nothing. It is relying on you to teach it what to do and how to behave. Carry tiny pieces of kibble (not crap treats) in your pocket on the walk. Get her to stick close to you and let her know you have food in your hand but keep your hand closed. Her nose will stick to your hand and you can walk on with your arm close by your side.
With food you could get her to drive you around if you taught her how. Never assume she's being greedy for 1 kibble for getting something right that you've asked of her. After all, your incentive for working is your pay.
Ideally though if she has the same drive for a ball as she does food then it becomes easier than a pocket of kibble once the basics are put in place. Police search dogs are a prime example of being rewarded this way. To the dog they think they have won the jackpot every time they find what it is they are looking for because their handler rewards them with 'their' ball.
Exercising as you rightly put should be kept to a minimum at her age. Even helping her in and out the car is advisable. No big jumps etc. Once old enough the sky is the limit.
Avoid those rawhide chews too. They are great until the dog can't open their mouths because the chew has stuck their teeth together and they panic and start choking.
She will grow out of a lot of her current behaviour but be careful who you rely on to tell you what is right. I've watched several so called trainers at work in these classes and wouldn't class them as anymore than dog lovers. I've also watched some decent dog trainers, so it can be luck of the draw. Classes can be no more than a good way of socialising your pets and at worse, lead you in the wrong direction.
A puppy can never be naughty it only means their owners haven't taught them correct behaviour.
Hang in there and I promise you it will be worth it. Become disconsolate and feel like you're failing and she will grow up to be a bigger dog than she is now and no more.
A puppy can be far worse than a baby.I've brought on lots of puppies but I'm fortunate enough to be around them all day every day and their training is real training if I want more than just a pet. Dogs that absolutely know their position won't challenge your authority at all. The trainers I know who buy Police, Protection or Sport dogs through me are serious about the dog's function and so require a puppy that shows certain qualities from an early age. If they don't they are deemed 'pet' quality and sold accordingly.
Obviously pet requirements are different but good obedience is always a must. Walking her off the lead from an early age has given her the wrong signals and in her mind anything less isn't good enough now. Basic obedience starts with tight heeling on a lead until that is learned. People think that is unfair but actually it is more unfair to the dog to not put in boundaries.
Toys shouldn't be given to them either if you're not playing with them at the time. The toys are YOURS that you allow the dogs to play with and they only come out when YOU want to play. Again, you SHOULD play regularly but then put the toys away. My 2 hounds wail like banshees when I mention 'ropes'. That level of excitement from a stupid bit of knotted rope is only because they regard it as a pleasure. Toys lying around are no fun and really only serve to exasperate boredom.
You mention she is food driven so reward her on YOUR terms. Don't think you are giving in to her demands. A common mistake made by so many is thinking the puppy is in charge. It's a PUPPY and knows nothing. It is relying on you to teach it what to do and how to behave. Carry tiny pieces of kibble (not crap treats) in your pocket on the walk. Get her to stick close to you and let her know you have food in your hand but keep your hand closed. Her nose will stick to your hand and you can walk on with your arm close by your side.
With food you could get her to drive you around if you taught her how.
Never assume she's being greedy for 1 kibble for getting something right that you've asked of her. After all, your incentive for working is your pay. Ideally though if she has the same drive for a ball as she does food then it becomes easier than a pocket of kibble once the basics are put in place. Police search dogs are a prime example of being rewarded this way. To the dog they think they have won the jackpot every time they find what it is they are looking for because their handler rewards them with 'their' ball.
Exercising as you rightly put should be kept to a minimum at her age. Even helping her in and out the car is advisable. No big jumps etc. Once old enough the sky is the limit.
Avoid those rawhide chews too. They are great until the dog can't open their mouths because the chew has stuck their teeth together and they panic and start choking.
She will grow out of a lot of her current behaviour but be careful who you rely on to tell you what is right. I've watched several so called trainers at work in these classes and wouldn't class them as anymore than dog lovers. I've also watched some decent dog trainers, so it can be luck of the draw. Classes can be no more than a good way of socialising your pets and at worse, lead you in the wrong direction.
A puppy can never be naughty it only means their owners haven't taught them correct behaviour.
Hang in there and I promise you it will be worth it. Become disconsolate and feel like you're failing and she will grow up to be a bigger dog than she is now and no more.
24 June 2009, 09:52 PM
#48
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I have a gorgeous Rottie (yes I'm biased!!)
He destroyed a kitchen door (outer), kitchen door and frame (inner) and our garden!! In the end we segregated our garden and gave him his own space (which he loves!) and gave him tons and tons of toys!! He is now on his own all day and is fine! He does love his giant kong which we occasionally fill with cream cheese and biscuits - he's in heaven!!
He is still, occasionally, very naughty though!! Prime example being last weekend. Took a huge piece of fillet steak out of the freezer friday night to defrost for friends coming over saturday night. I came downstairs saturday morning (Thunder sleeps in the kitchen and has hip dysplaxia so cannot-or so we thought-stand on his two back legs anymore) to find that Thunder had eaten all but about an inch thick of the fillet steak, having got it out of the sink!!!! He looked at me as if to say "I know I'm naughty but I don't care what you do to me , that was worth it!!"
He destroyed a kitchen door (outer), kitchen door and frame (inner) and our garden!! In the end we segregated our garden and gave him his own space (which he loves!) and gave him tons and tons of toys!! He is now on his own all day and is fine! He does love his giant kong which we occasionally fill with cream cheese and biscuits - he's in heaven!!
He is still, occasionally, very naughty though!! Prime example being last weekend. Took a huge piece of fillet steak out of the freezer friday night to defrost for friends coming over saturday night. I came downstairs saturday morning (Thunder sleeps in the kitchen and has hip dysplaxia so cannot-or so we thought-stand on his two back legs anymore) to find that Thunder had eaten all but about an inch thick of the fillet steak, having got it out of the sink!!!! He looked at me as if to say "I know I'm naughty but I don't care what you do to me , that was worth it!!"
24 June 2009, 10:24 PM
#49
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Cheers Spoon. One thing I will say about the trainer, he has a certain way with the dogs in the class and they behave impeccably around him, he doesn't treat them like pets and can be quite harsh at times if a dog he is using to demonstrate something does step out of line. He is a trainer for guide dogs for the blind which is his full time job. I've heard him mention his time in the RAF and i'm thinking he was a dog handler possibly in the MP before doing civvy dog training. The dogs at class certainly act differently when being instructed by him than when the owners do the same instruction. We've all said after classes to each other he seems to have a certain 'something' with commanding the dogs in the class. So because of this we are all sticking with him for the bronze and subsequent courses.
Worse than a baby? Most definitely. She is worse than all 3 of my kids put together on a bad day lol.
About the off the lead walking, this has only been since the age of about 14 weeks i'd guess. Previous to that I was not confident in her returning to me. But on the 'basics' course we covered recall training and she responded well. She also had been walking to heal on the lead perfectly (and still does but now only on the way out, it's the way back that is now the problem). So I started letting her off down the woods well away from any roads and the only other people she would meet are other dog walkers. She has really enjoyed this and I thought it was an important part of recall training as she does return when I call her. I also wanted her to have a run about in an open area so it was more than just a walk. From how I read your reply this is wrong and she should be controlled on a lead until older?
Toys I hold my hand up to and have also been told how wrong it is by the trainer as well. They should be locked away as you say but they are strewn all over the garden and in the utility room and her crate so I need to sort this. I think this has also lead to her trying to get me to chase her when I want them back.
Treats, yes I only take the dog biscuit I feed her at meal times which as puppy food is still small biscuits. She has never been fed anything other than dog food apart from these dentastix the wife bought. I don't agree with giving her human food and she is not allowed near the dinner table when we eat as a family, she is put in the utility room.
The problem I had with treat reward training that is that it started great. Then when it came to doing commands without the treats she wouldn't do them and started being disobedient with commands she had been doing at every time of asking previously. I've been advised to give her the treat 1 out of every 3 times she does the command to keep her interest and then extend the number of times without a treat slowly.
Tonight was a good example. She knows 'fetch ball' through repetition of the game but has stopped doing it. Tonight I thought i'd try her with a treat. However showing her the treat and issuing the command once she got to the ball got me no where, she wouldn't bring the ball back to me and just came straight back to me for the treat which she didn't get.
She has learnt she only gets treats when she stops mouthing my hand for them so I can hold my hand to her nose with a biscuit in it and she will sit still and not touch my hand so she will do some things well for food. The same goes for her dinner bowl. I don't have to say a thing, she will sit and wait with no commands and I can put the bowl down and she waits until I say go. This she learnt within 2 days of trying it and it is simply a routine now. The problem is not getting the same level of response in other areas such as fetch.
She wont jump in or out the car and I lift her in and out all the time as the boot is too high for her. Even if she sits in the front with me (rarely) she wont even jump in there and has to be lifted in. She doesn't like jumping. What age in your opinion is ok to increase walking distance gradually? I would say our 20 minutes twice a day is not even a mile each time as it is through the woods/rough ground as well as some pavement walking.
Noted about the raw hide chews and if she does have any more will be under close supervision - she does like them a lot due to how much she likes chewing stuff. Rubber toys are no good as she bites pieces off of them even though they are supposed to be dog proof.
I am guilty of not teaching her the correct behaviour then as i'm always calling her naughty. One question though, do you believe a dog can be stubborn despite what you are attempting to teach it and no matter what rewards you give it? I am certain she has the stubbornness of a mule but could just be my inability to enforce my authority on her.
I have contemplated a number of times giving up and my parents would have taken her as they would not let me rehome her but i'm not giving up that easily and failing.
Worse than a baby? Most definitely. She is worse than all 3 of my kids put together on a bad day lol.
About the off the lead walking, this has only been since the age of about 14 weeks i'd guess. Previous to that I was not confident in her returning to me. But on the 'basics' course we covered recall training and she responded well. She also had been walking to heal on the lead perfectly (and still does but now only on the way out, it's the way back that is now the problem). So I started letting her off down the woods well away from any roads and the only other people she would meet are other dog walkers. She has really enjoyed this and I thought it was an important part of recall training as she does return when I call her. I also wanted her to have a run about in an open area so it was more than just a walk. From how I read your reply this is wrong and she should be controlled on a lead until older?
Toys I hold my hand up to and have also been told how wrong it is by the trainer as well. They should be locked away as you say but they are strewn all over the garden and in the utility room and her crate so I need to sort this. I think this has also lead to her trying to get me to chase her when I want them back.
Treats, yes I only take the dog biscuit I feed her at meal times which as puppy food is still small biscuits. She has never been fed anything other than dog food apart from these dentastix the wife bought. I don't agree with giving her human food and she is not allowed near the dinner table when we eat as a family, she is put in the utility room.
The problem I had with treat reward training that is that it started great. Then when it came to doing commands without the treats she wouldn't do them and started being disobedient with commands she had been doing at every time of asking previously. I've been advised to give her the treat 1 out of every 3 times she does the command to keep her interest and then extend the number of times without a treat slowly.
Tonight was a good example. She knows 'fetch ball' through repetition of the game but has stopped doing it. Tonight I thought i'd try her with a treat. However showing her the treat and issuing the command once she got to the ball got me no where, she wouldn't bring the ball back to me and just came straight back to me for the treat which she didn't get.
She has learnt she only gets treats when she stops mouthing my hand for them so I can hold my hand to her nose with a biscuit in it and she will sit still and not touch my hand so she will do some things well for food. The same goes for her dinner bowl. I don't have to say a thing, she will sit and wait with no commands and I can put the bowl down and she waits until I say go. This she learnt within 2 days of trying it and it is simply a routine now. The problem is not getting the same level of response in other areas such as fetch.
She wont jump in or out the car and I lift her in and out all the time as the boot is too high for her. Even if she sits in the front with me (rarely) she wont even jump in there and has to be lifted in. She doesn't like jumping. What age in your opinion is ok to increase walking distance gradually? I would say our 20 minutes twice a day is not even a mile each time as it is through the woods/rough ground as well as some pavement walking.
Noted about the raw hide chews and if she does have any more will be under close supervision - she does like them a lot due to how much she likes chewing stuff. Rubber toys are no good as she bites pieces off of them even though they are supposed to be dog proof.
I am guilty of not teaching her the correct behaviour then as i'm always calling her naughty. One question though, do you believe a dog can be stubborn despite what you are attempting to teach it and no matter what rewards you give it? I am certain she has the stubbornness of a mule but could just be my inability to enforce my authority on her.
I have contemplated a number of times giving up and my parents would have taken her as they would not let me rehome her but i'm not giving up that easily and failing.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 24 June 2009 at 10:29 PM.
24 June 2009, 10:43 PM
#50
Dogs have their own personality despite breed traits etc..so she could be a stubborn choccy lab
Stick with her though because they do calm down .
Ive rescued/rehomed two so far and they have both been great dogs but not suited the owners circumstances at the time
They need loads of attention and time but give a lot back as well
Stick with her though because they do calm down .
Ive rescued/rehomed two so far and they have both been great dogs but not suited the owners circumstances at the time
They need loads of attention and time but give a lot back as well
24 June 2009, 10:56 PM
#51
On the food thing. I moved to general all in one gun dog type food rather than the expensive makes which were higher in protein .
The vet thought the high protein food would make her more hyper and the lower protein food might make her think it had filled her up more since she was given bigger helpings.
It certainly helped my dog and has worked for other lab owners
The vet thought the high protein food would make her more hyper and the lower protein food might make her think it had filled her up more since she was given bigger helpings.
It certainly helped my dog and has worked for other lab owners
25 June 2009, 09:28 AM
#53
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Bravo - our mates have a dog who is similar except he's over a year old - he started off well, sitting when he was only 12 weeks old so they got lazy. He's now a total nightmare - chews everything, howls all the time, very fussy eater (they feed him tinned tuna with parmesan grated on top!!!), awful in a car, etc, etc. He's pretty much beyond training.
One thing they do is constantly tell him "no" and he's become almost deaf to it. When ours hears the word "no" she knows we mean it and instantly stops. Telling them off needs to be done properly and without nagging or they just ignore it.
I think you can walk her further now - it may burn off some more energy and the mental stimulation helps occupy their minds.
Harsh trainers are often good - they are dogs after all. As soon as you treat them like a child (like our mates do) it all goes wrong.
We've taken ours beating and she took to it like a duck to water (flushed out two pheasants) with almost no training but we are planning to get her fully trained to keep her busy and satisfied.
At least yours is showing no signs of aggression - that can be pretty serious.
One thing they do is constantly tell him "no" and he's become almost deaf to it. When ours hears the word "no" she knows we mean it and instantly stops. Telling them off needs to be done properly and without nagging or they just ignore it.
I think you can walk her further now - it may burn off some more energy and the mental stimulation helps occupy their minds.
Harsh trainers are often good - they are dogs after all. As soon as you treat them like a child (like our mates do) it all goes wrong.
We've taken ours beating and she took to it like a duck to water (flushed out two pheasants) with almost no training but we are planning to get her fully trained to keep her busy and satisfied.
At least yours is showing no signs of aggression - that can be pretty serious.
25 June 2009, 12:24 PM
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Cheers Spoon. One thing I will say about the trainer, he has a certain way with the dogs in the class and they behave impeccably around him, he doesn't treat them like pets and can be quite harsh at times if a dog he is using to demonstrate something does step out of line. He is a trainer for guide dogs for the blind which is his full time job. I've heard him mention his time in the RAF and i'm thinking he was a dog handler possibly in the MP before doing civvy dog training. The dogs at class certainly act differently when being instructed by him than when the owners do the same instruction. We've all said after classes to each other he seems to have a certain 'something' with commanding the dogs in the class. So because of this we are all sticking with him for the bronze and subsequent courses.
About the off the lead walking, this has only been since the age of about 14 weeks i'd guess. Previous to that I was not confident in her returning to me. But on the 'basics' course we covered recall training and she responded well. She also had been walking to heal on the lead perfectly (and still does but now only on the way out, it's the way back that is now the problem). So I started letting her off down the woods well away from any roads and the only other people she would meet are other dog walkers. She has really enjoyed this and I thought it was an important part of recall training as she does return when I call her. I also wanted her to have a run about in an open area so it was more than just a walk. From how I read your reply this is wrong and she should be controlled on a lead until older?
Toys I hold my hand up to and have also been told how wrong it is by the trainer as well. They should be locked away as you say but they are strewn all over the garden and in the utility room and her crate so I need to sort this. I think this has also lead to her trying to get me to chase her when I want them back.
Treats, yes I only take the dog biscuit I feed her at meal times which as puppy food is still small biscuits. She has never been fed anything other than dog food apart from these dentastix the wife bought. I don't agree with giving her human food and she is not allowed near the dinner table when we eat as a family, she is put in the utility room.
The problem I had with treat reward training that is that it started great. Then when it came to doing commands without the treats she wouldn't do them and started being disobedient with commands she had been doing at every time of asking previously. I've been advised to give her the treat 1 out of every 3 times she does the command to keep her interest and then extend the number of times without a treat slowly.
Tonight was a good example. She knows 'fetch ball' through repetition of the game but has stopped doing it. Tonight I thought i'd try her with a treat. However showing her the treat and issuing the command once she got to the ball got me no where, she wouldn't bring the ball back to me and just came straight back to me for the treat which she didn't get.
She has learnt she only gets treats when she stops mouthing my hand for them so I can hold my hand to her nose with a biscuit in it and she will sit still and not touch my hand so she will do some things well for food. The same goes for her dinner bowl. I don't have to say a thing, she will sit and wait with no commands and I can put the bowl down and she waits until I say go. This she learnt within 2 days of trying it and it is simply a routine now. The problem is not getting the same level of response in other areas such as fetch.
She wont jump in or out the car and I lift her in and out all the time as the boot is too high for her. Even if she sits in the front with me (rarely) she wont even jump in there and has to be lifted in. She doesn't like jumping. What age in your opinion is ok to increase walking distance gradually? I would say our 20 minutes twice a day is not even a mile each time as it is through the woods/rough ground as well as some pavement walking.
Take the jumping as seriously as you are and it can only be a good thing until her tiny body has settled down and formed correctly.I am guilty of not teaching her the correct behaviour then as i'm always calling her naughty. One question though, do you believe a dog can be stubborn despite what you are attempting to teach it and no matter what rewards you give it? I am certain she has the stubbornness of a mule but could just be my inability to enforce my authority on her.
25 June 2009, 03:52 PM
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This is where I go....
K9 Consultants - Dog training that delivers results - www.k9consultants.co.uk
K9 Consultants - Dog training that delivers results - www.k9consultants.co.uk
25 June 2009, 04:36 PM
#56
I've got a 2 year old Rottie and a 9 year old Collie. The collie is the most perfect dog I have ever owned. He's got a fantastic nature, is incredibly obedient and is in general a dream dog. The Rottie well what can I say, he knows who's boss and is again a fantastic natured dog. He's excitable and boystrous but there isn't a nasty bit in him. However shortly after getting him the house started to get absolutely wrecked. We put it down to boredom when myself and my girlfriend were at work and littered the house with toys. The destruction still happened.
One day I decided to have a camera on them all day to see what was really happening.
I was absolutely astounded to see the Rottie being as good as gold all day and it was actually the collie causing the carnage. Crafty sod. He saw the rottie getting his daily telling off and butter wouldnt melt in the little sod's mouth
Anyway after a period of spoiling the Rottie with lots of fuss and completely ignoring the collie when there was mess the problem soon rectified itself.
Its very interesting to see what the experts say and I shall have to put some of that into practice.
One day I decided to have a camera on them all day to see what was really happening.
I was absolutely astounded to see the Rottie being as good as gold all day and it was actually the collie causing the carnage. Crafty sod. He saw the rottie getting his daily telling off and butter wouldnt melt in the little sod's mouth
Anyway after a period of spoiling the Rottie with lots of fuss and completely ignoring the collie when there was mess the problem soon rectified itself.
Its very interesting to see what the experts say and I shall have to put some of that into practice.
25 June 2009, 05:22 PM
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Thanks once again Spoon and others for the replies.
Yep I picked the trainers brains as every week I went I had new questions and issues as above. He has seen her misbehave during class and advised appropriately. Two things she did to try and disrupt training was 1) jumping up and biting the lead - even a sharp tug she wouldn't let go and got to the point where she was literally hanging off the ground by her lead as I lifted it up and 2) walking round the cones she'd suddenly dive on the floor and start rolling around on her lead, again refusing to get up when pulling the lead and having to lift her up.
His advice was to pull the lead sharper and firmer. It always worried me it would break teeth or cut her gums if I did it when she has a good hold of it in her mouth or when she is rolling around, again worried an even sharper tug than what I had been doing could damage her neck. He tells me nonsense but it is really unnerving pulling that hard!
The lead walking I will continue with and is a strange one. Her early morning walk this morning was perfect on the way out and on the way back. Her off the lead time she responded well to 'leave it' when putting her nose in stuff I didn't want her sniffing at and also 'come 'ere' when running too far ahead or falling too far back worked well - she behaved really well with no silly nonsense so totally the opposite to last night's walk home.
One thing i'm thinking that could be bothering her is needing a poo! This morning she went before the walk as always in the morning. However last night as soon as she got through the gate into the garden it literally shot out her backside she was that desperate. She doesn't like going away from the garden especially if its along a pavement so i'm now wondering she is refusing to walk on the way home of an evening as the running around she has been doing in the woods is making her want to go for a poo on the way home. It just seems strange that this morning there was no silly behaviour but last night there was silly behaviour and she was desperate for a poo. Other times she has messed me about from what I can remember she has also run into the garden and gone for a poo straight after getting home.
The toy situation i'm about to go and clear up now and put the toys in the cupboard. I will try the fetch training standing closer to where the ball stops as I had been doing it the length of the garden and she just turns round and stares instead of bringing it to me. When i've walked over to her and got closer she does pick the ball up and bring it to me. I guess i'm expecting too much and like at training classes with the 'stay' command I should be teaching it from close up to start with and gradually increase distance for the command. I think i've jumped the gun a little on the fetch command.
The reward training yes you are correct in that I stopped giving her the rewards because she was doing the commands so well and I didn't want her relying on having a biscuit every time I told her to do something that she seemed to understand. Again jumping the gun and I will continue the rewards until she is a little older.
This evening before she goes for a walk I will run her round the garden a bit first to see if I can get her to go to the loo before we go out and then see how she behaves on the way home.
Yep I picked the trainers brains as every week I went I had new questions and issues as above. He has seen her misbehave during class and advised appropriately. Two things she did to try and disrupt training was 1) jumping up and biting the lead - even a sharp tug she wouldn't let go and got to the point where she was literally hanging off the ground by her lead as I lifted it up and 2) walking round the cones she'd suddenly dive on the floor and start rolling around on her lead, again refusing to get up when pulling the lead and having to lift her up.
His advice was to pull the lead sharper and firmer. It always worried me it would break teeth or cut her gums if I did it when she has a good hold of it in her mouth or when she is rolling around, again worried an even sharper tug than what I had been doing could damage her neck. He tells me nonsense but it is really unnerving pulling that hard!
The lead walking I will continue with and is a strange one. Her early morning walk this morning was perfect on the way out and on the way back. Her off the lead time she responded well to 'leave it' when putting her nose in stuff I didn't want her sniffing at and also 'come 'ere' when running too far ahead or falling too far back worked well - she behaved really well with no silly nonsense so totally the opposite to last night's walk home.
One thing i'm thinking that could be bothering her is needing a poo! This morning she went before the walk as always in the morning. However last night as soon as she got through the gate into the garden it literally shot out her backside she was that desperate. She doesn't like going away from the garden especially if its along a pavement so i'm now wondering she is refusing to walk on the way home of an evening as the running around she has been doing in the woods is making her want to go for a poo on the way home. It just seems strange that this morning there was no silly behaviour but last night there was silly behaviour and she was desperate for a poo. Other times she has messed me about from what I can remember she has also run into the garden and gone for a poo straight after getting home.
The toy situation i'm about to go and clear up now and put the toys in the cupboard. I will try the fetch training standing closer to where the ball stops as I had been doing it the length of the garden and she just turns round and stares instead of bringing it to me. When i've walked over to her and got closer she does pick the ball up and bring it to me. I guess i'm expecting too much and like at training classes with the 'stay' command I should be teaching it from close up to start with and gradually increase distance for the command. I think i've jumped the gun a little on the fetch command.
The reward training yes you are correct in that I stopped giving her the rewards because she was doing the commands so well and I didn't want her relying on having a biscuit every time I told her to do something that she seemed to understand. Again jumping the gun and I will continue the rewards until she is a little older.
This evening before she goes for a walk I will run her round the garden a bit first to see if I can get her to go to the loo before we go out and then see how she behaves on the way home.
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25 June 2009, 05:24 PM
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She looks gorgeous
I had to part with my Chocolate last week, after 16 years. As a youngster she completely destroyed our house, carpets, balustrade, skirting, curtains, kitchen units, reproduction furniture, clothes, electrical production, my glasses, i could go on.
She did calm down after 2-3 years, and despite all the early issues, she was a fantastic friend and pet to us and our kids.
Just so that you don't think you're the only one, here is our latest pup, a Newfie / Spaniel cross,\ aged 8 months in the photo. Loves a good chew.
25 June 2009, 05:29 PM
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they always look as if butter wouldn't melt in their mouths when caught after destroying something. Our one when she walks into the lounge at night will walk past the TV cabinet and have a crafty nibble on the draw **** as she passes it, she just can't help herself even though she knows we are watching and she will get told off for it.16 years is a good age, she obviously had a fantastic life to live that long
My parents black lab got to 13 when his head out lived his organs. He was as bright as if he was still a youngster but his organs started to deteriorate like his lungs with breathing problems and the like and he had to be put to sleep. I'll never forget his eyes closing staring at me as I held a front paw and gave him a hug. Sad days.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 25 June 2009 at 05:34 PM.
25 June 2009, 10:23 PM
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Thanks once again Spoon and others for the replies.
Yep I picked the trainers brains as every week I went I had new questions and issues as above. He has seen her misbehave during class and advised appropriately. Two things she did to try and disrupt training was 1) jumping up and biting the lead - even a sharp tug she wouldn't let go and got to the point where she was literally hanging off the ground by her lead as I lifted it up and 2) walking round the cones she'd suddenly dive on the floor and start rolling around on her lead, again refusing to get up when pulling the lead and having to lift her up.
His advice was to pull the lead sharper and firmer. It always worried me it would break teeth or cut her gums if I did it when she has a good hold of it in her mouth or when she is rolling around, again worried an even sharper tug than what I had been doing could damage her neck. He tells me nonsense but it is really unnerving pulling that hard!
Yep I picked the trainers brains as every week I went I had new questions and issues as above. He has seen her misbehave during class and advised appropriately. Two things she did to try and disrupt training was 1) jumping up and biting the lead - even a sharp tug she wouldn't let go and got to the point where she was literally hanging off the ground by her lead as I lifted it up and 2) walking round the cones she'd suddenly dive on the floor and start rolling around on her lead, again refusing to get up when pulling the lead and having to lift her up.
His advice was to pull the lead sharper and firmer. It always worried me it would break teeth or cut her gums if I did it when she has a good hold of it in her mouth or when she is rolling around, again worried an even sharper tug than what I had been doing could damage her neck. He tells me nonsense but it is really unnerving pulling that hard!
The lead walking I will continue with and is a strange one. Her early morning walk this morning was perfect on the way out and on the way back. Her off the lead time she responded well to 'leave it' when putting her nose in stuff I didn't want her sniffing at and also 'come 'ere' when running too far ahead or falling too far back worked well - she behaved really well with no silly nonsense so totally the opposite to last night's walk home.
One thing i'm thinking that could be bothering her is needing a poo! This morning she went before the walk as always in the morning. However last night as soon as she got through the gate into the garden it literally shot out her backside she was that desperate. She doesn't like going away from the garden especially if its along a pavement so i'm now wondering she is refusing to walk on the way home of an evening as the running around she has been doing in the woods is making her want to go for a poo on the way home. It just seems strange that this morning there was no silly behaviour but last night there was silly behaviour and she was desperate for a poo. Other times she has messed me about from what I can remember she has also run into the garden and gone for a poo straight after getting home.
One thing i'm thinking that could be bothering her is needing a poo! This morning she went before the walk as always in the morning. However last night as soon as she got through the gate into the garden it literally shot out her backside she was that desperate. She doesn't like going away from the garden especially if its along a pavement so i'm now wondering she is refusing to walk on the way home of an evening as the running around she has been doing in the woods is making her want to go for a poo on the way home. It just seems strange that this morning there was no silly behaviour but last night there was silly behaviour and she was desperate for a poo. Other times she has messed me about from what I can remember she has also run into the garden and gone for a poo straight after getting home.
The toy situation i'm about to go and clear up now and put the toys in the cupboard. I will try the fetch training standing closer to where the ball stops as I had been doing it the length of the garden and she just turns round and stares instead of bringing it to me. When i've walked over to her and got closer she does pick the ball up and bring it to me. I guess i'm expecting too much and like at training classes with the 'stay' command I should be teaching it from close up to start with and gradually increase distance for the command. I think i've jumped the gun a little on the fetch command.
The reward training yes you are correct in that I stopped giving her the rewards because she was doing the commands so well and I didn't want her relying on having a biscuit every time I told her to do something that she seemed to understand. Again jumping the gun and I will continue the rewards until she is a little older.
It won't be for as long as you think but in a few months time you'll be glad you did. Do remember though she might not respond too well sometimes because a) She's a puppy and gets bored easily and b) She's a female. Report back.