RichS

The balance thing is right on the money Banshi.

Be careful, but don't forget to enjoy life.

Rich

RichS

As you can probably tell by my last post - I haven't been a victim of car jacking (touch wood.)

I only hope I can repeat those words if it happens to me or mine...

EvilBevel

Finding the right balance, exactly ...

Tiggs, being the starter of one topic (protest meet) I would like to comment.

I have not been carjacked myself, and to be honest, I used to believe that all this crime talk was mostly about "he said that she said that the neighbour said" etc.

Some facts though from the last year:

. my Volvo T5 was broken in to 5 weeks ago, key cylinder completely missing, nothing of value stolen, nice repair bill
. my neighbours car (which stood 3 meters from mine) was broken in to 2 weeks later, window smashed, and a shotgun and ammunition( ) was stolen from it
. 6 months ago, all houses around mine (17 houses in total) were broken in to, apart from ours and those that didn't have a 2nd floor. 4 cars stolen, one belonging to my other neighbour (who is with the police ) I live in the middle of nowhere, nothing to do with cities etc
. my dealer, who I consider a friend, had his showroom broken in to 12 (yes, twelve) times since Jan 2001, 3 times since Jan 2002
. another dealer that I know very well had his car stolen from his driveway a year ago.
. my tuner just told me some people ran off with a tuning kit he just placed in their cars... also he noticed more & more tools are stolen from his workshop

This is not heresay, nor dramatic ... but it gets up my nerves. I agree, no carjacking in there, so you don't have to eat your dumpvalve yet, but *crime* nonetheless. Combined with the pretty frequent posts on here (last one being Alec C.), it's not as if I am completely paranoid & just looking for a cause to start screaming & shouting.

It is also pretty obvious that, whatever the reason, the police forces are a bit miffed by all this, and don't have the means/time/permission etc to put *any* time in all these crimes.

I agree we shouldn't overreact, but taking the p1ss isn't justified either.

A statistician calculated that the average depth of a certain river was 0.25 meters. He crossed & drowned.

Theo

Tiggs

I was carjacked while trying to sell my M3 last August 1

Dave from Nottingham was carjacked in his impreza 2

I thought it wouldn't happen to me, but it did 3

In addition to Lizzy's incident I personally know of one 4

i think my teeth are safe but thanks for proving the point that if you talk about it enough it can seem like it happens more than you think.

MTR

Tiggs,

Quote:
people are either
a) overly concerned about something that will probably never effect them

or

b)just like a nice old drama to chat about!

End of quote:


Which category do you fall into?

I don't feel that I fall in either one, but being attacked in my home,or car does concern me quite a bit.
Not primarily for myself, as I am a crazy pillock that would most definately 'Have a go back'. That is the bit that worries me.

Whilst I am defending my property, from scum, what is going to happen to my wife a 2 small children.

And NO I will not give them my car or anything that belongs to me without a fight. Purely on a matter of principle.

But if my family were injured whose fault would that be?
Mine for defending what is mine or would society blame the actions of a small minority of selfish thieving scum?

And I already know the answer to that one.

The incident Banshi relates too, happened to a friend of ours.
He phoned me immediately after being attacked in his house,after first phoning the Police, to report the theft of his Impreza Turbo.
He was in tears and was extremely distressed.

I sat with him in his house, whilst the Police tried to interview him. Trust me it is very unsettling to see a grown man cuddling his 4 month old daughter continually breaking down in tears, recounting the event.

More recently another friend 54 years old was dragged from his Impreza whilst eating a sandwhich and battered and had his arm broken by 3 masked men, in another stolen car.

Both these thefts happened in Oldham, Greater Manchester, which by the way has boasts the unenviable statistic that approx 27% of ALL car insurance claims in the area are THEFT of or from the vehicle.

Another recent post detailed a man and his girfriend being attacked and dragged from their Alfa Romeo whilst in traffic driving into Manchester centre.

It is good both you and your wife, can carry on with an indiferent attitude to events that without question are quite rare, given the 25 million cars on the road.

BUT also without question these events DO TARGET cars like the Impreza Turbo and other high speed 4 seater saloon cars, to be used as getaway vehicles.

You must pop up to Manchester one weekend, and I will take you (in your car) around some of the less pleasant ares of the North West.
Perhaps you may then have a differing outlook to other peoples apparent paranoia.

Drive safely. It will never happen to you.

Or maybe if every single Impreza in country had to be fitted with a tracking device to get insurance, then we and our families might be a little safer.

Just a thought.

Cheers MTR



[Edited by MTR - 3/7/2002 7:46:01 PM]

Tiggs

i fall in to b)

if someone wanted my keys i'd give em the keys- i'd even help them back out of the drive if they wanted.

i dont doubt, and never have, that getting jacked/burgled is nasty- so are a thousand things that people in a community could raise discuss and we could, and would, all feel sorry for those people- but it is rare and that is my point.

LeighJ

MTR,

Intresting reply m8, I was in Manchester when I got jacked, like you would, I did have a go back. I still have my car. My girlfriend was left alone during the jack, I was not hurt badly. If it happened again, would I give them the keys, YES I would. I live in the North West, but don't go to Manchester anymore. After said event I almost sold the Scoob, even looked around at some other cars, thought they all looked **** and that the f*king scum are not going to make me give up what I work hard for. I tend not to think about too much these days and enjoy driving my pride and joy.

Leigh

EBR

Yep, a Scoobie Newbie I might be so probably not as "educated" as the ignoramus that started this thread.

I'm a newbie for a good reason, I've only just bought a WRX. Relevance? Well I've busted my nuts off trying to get insurance in the middle of the widely publicised recent car/housecar jacking episodes.

So for the smug buggers that think it will never happen to them I'd say yea sh*t happens but I'd rather it didn't happen to me (or anyone else) thank you. More importantly now for the insurance bit.

1) You'll notice when you try to get yours renewed that Scoobs that have been modified in ANY way are going to cost you much more. Oh and the "great" and recommended Chris Knott won't touch modified cars at the moment.

2) Any mod not declared at the start but attempted to claim on will probably result in your Insurance Company getting sh*tty and trying to invalidate your entire policy.

3) I'd be very surprised if you find anyone prepared to give you Insurance without a CAT1 AND tracker.

4) Doesn't matter how many years NCD, where you live, and whether it is garaged or not, be prepared for a massive hike next time round.

I had 65% fully protected NCB and switched 4 years ago to an accident/claim free Company Car. Best cost to insure my WRX with a few mods (but no performance enhancements) - £760 with a £450 excess.

EBR

Now THAT'S freaky - how the hell do you manage to post in July 02 - you aren't a time lord are you ?

MTR

Tiggs,
5 of my friends have been attacked or burgled and had their cars Imprezas stolen within the last 6 months, all eventually recovered.

This is the story of 3 of them, I have mentioned the other 2 previously.

I forgot to mention 3 other friends (2 of them post on here) of mine from the Ashton area, and all living on one estate, have had their homes broken into and 2 Impreza turbos stolen.The 3rd had a blacjax on it and they couldn't start it, but they took the keys anyway.
None of these people were in when the houses were burgled.
The cars were recovered, but their insurances will rise quite steeply now!!

Two houses were attacked in the weeks preceeding my friends attack in his house, again in Oldham. They knock on the door, you answer, in they rush, 'say hello to iron bar, give me the keys'.
Well actually they only stole one car, as one women threw some keys at the robbers whoo then ran out of the door, which she shut, but the keys were not for the BMW on the drive.

I don't know these victims personally, but one was a lottery winner who the Police advised to 'get rid of the VR6 if you get it back and buy a cheap car.'!!

My sister in Hemel Hempstead had a friend threatened on her driveway in her BMW cabriolet, by two men, one with a gun.
She panicked and drove to a Police station.
They didn't shoot her.
Lucky lady.

So as you can see some of us have seen and heard of numerous attacks on friends and members of the public people and their homes. All with one purpose to steal their high performance cars, not to keep, but to use for robberies.

These are not nice people to bump into.

The Policeman who attended my friends incident drag races a couple of VW Beetles, and had previously owned a 5 door Impreza Turbo.
He ran it for 2 years (a long time for him to keep a car he told me), but sold it as he was becoming increasingly frightened for the safety of his girfriend who had taken a shine to the car, and was using it on a regular basis. He bought her a Beetle (old style) and flogged the Impreza.
He told me that these sort of events are becoming far more prevalent, but often do not make the newspapers.

I agree with your comment about it being quite rare.
Just that in some areas of the country it is less rare.

Just because your paranoid doesn't mean their not out to get you.

Cheers MTR

Andrewza

I might just take a slight serious turn from my whimsical posts earlier in this thread, but what I was trying to say was take sensible precautions to do what you can to prevent such unpleasantries, but in the end what will be will be.

For reference most of my job is taking precautions and planning for when things go wrong (systems admin).

If you want something more likely to happen to you and more worringly something you can do nothing about think about dangerous drivers. My dad and myself were near killed and our car was written off by a women driving head on into us on our side of the road on our way to work one morning about a year ago (she was uninsured to boot). The outcome was she was more severely hurt than us, eventually an unlucky insurance company paid out for their part and she'll now be chased for the £15 grand claim for our car and compensation for injuring.

Tonight on my train journey home I get a phone call from one of my brothers to inform me my parents and my other two brothers are at A&E and the turn off to the road leading to my house is blocked. Somebody driving like a looney slammed into the back of a car containing two of my brothers while they were waiting to turn right. Again, both cars written off.

I think we all probably have been or know someone who was nearly killed in a car crash caused by another driver, I for one cannot name anyone I know who has been car-jacked (or for that matter run over by a bus)

Andrew

EBR

Being of a wimpy disposition, but having a wife and two young kids, I've got the alarm, I've got the Tracker and I've also got Gap insurance (for the first 12 months I think it's essential).

I agree that the chances are slim but the chances of it happening to me are raised considerably from this time last week, after all who'd want to car-jack a Primera GT?(must say here four years, 85,000, other than wear and tear and tyres just one new clutch - what a great car !!!)

All I've said to wifey is the chances are slim but if it happens just get out of car WITH the kids and leave em to it. If I get a knock at the door in the middle of the night the plan is to hit the panic button on the house alarm first, then go to answer the door, by which time if they haven't buggered off, they're obviously deadly serious, they can have the friggin keys. I'll even start it up for them !!!!

It ain't gonna happen I hope, but you've got to be prepared.

Tiggs

ebr,

"carjacking is not common"

these are the first 4 words of my thread- you wanna post onit and be rude to me then i feel within my rights to suggest you take time out from being pissed at your insurance company and read them- theres only 4 words, it wont take long.

people can post about the horriffic events that happened to them and their friends- those things are very bad and i feel very soory for anyone that goes through it. BUT carjacking is not common (oh look there they are again, save you going back to the origianl post)

my wife crashing a car was horrible, me getting mugged when i was 15 was horrible, my brother being ill when he was young was horrible and lots of horrible things will happen in the future- belive it or not many people died today. and dave fell off a ladder last year.

nasty, nasty, nasty stuff- dont make it common.

how about using common sense? im sure most people would agree that locking your doors when your in the car etc is just that- common sense. hmmmm, maybe i should have made this easier and as well as putting my point in the first 4 words i should also have mentioned that common sense was still something of value-oh, hang on i did- its the title

EBR

Firstly, I want to make clear I didn't intend anything personal, it's just that you, and some of the subsequent responses were too dismissive of what is going on in the real world. In deepest Berkshire crime is wearing an M+S tie with a Paul Smith shirt isn't it ?

On the common sense front anyone not locking any car is asking for trouble, same as leaving keys in the ignition when paying after filling up.

In the real world it's starting to get ugly and the police have neither the manpower nor the inclination to do anything about it. While I agree that percentages are still low, precautions still need to be taken. I just took issue with what I perceived as your dismissive approach.

Tiggs

no idea, my shirts are thomas pink

BarryK

Well I looked up my password for this so:-

I agree unlikely maybe, but always be prepared. And it pays to be paranoid.

Leaving the enigne running while filling up was mentioned in another thread. Probably more likely to blow up the petrol station than have the car stolen, but you never know.

MTR, you mention your mate having his arm broken eating a sandwich when his car was nicked. Put in context that was part of a larger offence, the three pepetrators had earlier in the morning say 07:00) stolen a black Ford Focus, by breaking into a house and stealing the keys, which they used about 11:00 am to try (and failed) and rob a securicor van at the Natwest in Chadderton.

Twenty minutes later they (still driving the Focus) attacked and stole your mate's Impreza while he was eating a sandwich with the window open. They then drove off with both vehicles.

These are brazen criminals, not opportunist teenage morons.

They had the brass neck to drive around in a recently stolen car, which they had no compunction about advertising it's theft, attempt a robbery with it and then steal an additional car. Did they flee and abandon the Focus after the robbery failed as might have been depicted in "The Sweeny"?

Did they gollocks!

Above the law with no fear of retribution such people are impossible to stop, no matter what precautions you take. (Unless you are securicor).

I posted about that crime which was reported in the "Chron" at the time it happened and got very little response on Scoobynet.

I am still aghast at the sheer arrogance of those robbers, and they are in the ascendancy. People who couldn't give a to55 about you, me or anybody else.

How does our society deal with them? It doesn't.

Read today's Sun and expect an ongoing campaign backing up what the "top cop" Sir John Stevens said yesterday. There is no fear of justice or the law. The police are wasting their time arresting criminals AND THEY ALL KNOW IT!!!!

MTR

Barry K,
Did you know that the three lads who nicked Vics car were arrested the following day? and the three lads that attacked Tony (Sparkplug)in his house are in remand as well. Not sure if its the same group of 3 or not.

Its just a shame they didn't try and rob Vics car from his house, as his 2 sons are both about 6'3" and 17 stone, and work in the building industry.
They thieves would have got a right clattering.

You're right about them being brazen, but would they steal a car if they knew it had a tracking system fitted?

Surely they would rather be left alone prior to an attempted armed robbery, and wouldn't want the hassle of the Police with helicopter searching for their getaway car.
Not at least until after the raid.

They never seem to steal P1's for this sort of thing. Is it because they cannot find any, or because they know ever single one of the P1's is fitted with RAC trackstar at minimum.And some may even have addittional security as well.

Is that too hot a potatoe to handle.

Cheers MTR

Tiggs

2dr cars arent very good for getaway cars are they?

dont nick many elises either!

Great~taste~Bloke

elise's are two seaters p1's are two door four seater cars.

MTR

Tiggs,
When Tonys car was stolen (Sparkplug on here) the other car they were using which they had stolen fron Warrington was a Ford Probe 2 door, 2.5 V6, and there were 4 of them in it!!!

Elises fall to bits when you reverse them through shop windows, so I believe,Imprezas don't according to the Police that attended, thats why they are popular.

It may make it more difficult if they intend carrying more than 2 people in the car, but it doesn't stop them from using a 2 door car. Like the Probe I mention above or BMW M3 for example.

They want fast, strong, 4 and 5 seaters, so long as it has some doors they can use it.

Elises will probably be stolen by professional car theft gangs to keep/sell on.

Currently in the North West (Read Manchester) the Imprezas (4Dr)/Volvo Turbos(4Dr)/Probes (2Dr)/Golf VR6's(2Dr)/Golf GTi's(2Dr)/BMW's(2 & 4 Dr), Audi A3Turbo(2Dr) etc etc are more commonly being borrowed with force, to commit other more serious crimes, like armed robbery.

These cars listed I KNOW have been used in Robberies around here in recent months.

I suspect you will never be be convinced, unless it happens to you.
But either way watch your insurance go Up and Up and Up, because insurance companies are already convinced.

NFU will NOT insure ANY Impreza Turbo's with an Oldham post code, on new business., along with MANY other insurance companies, irrespective of individuals driving record.

When I phone around, more companies say NO than say YES, as soon as you state where you live.
Perhaps they're paranoid. Or perhaps they KNOW what is going on, because they are paying out.

Like I said being attacked for your car is rare.
Probably almost non existant in the 'nicer' parts of the country.

But we can't all live in the 'nicer' parts of the country, and in some areas the chances are considerably increased, by some margin.

After Tony was attacked I asked at a dealer about swapping my 3 month old MY00 for an 2nd hand Elise, because I also fathomed that it would be less desirable as a getaway car. I didn't swap eventually. No where for the wife & kids to sit.

I have owned a MY98, MY99 and now a MY00, over the last 4 1/2 years, so cannot be too paranoid or else I wouldn't keep buying them.

Cheers MTR

Tiggs

i was only thinking that 4drs might be easier! didnt want to start a deabte on the best car for bank jobs!

Tiggs

ps- i dont pay my insurance- my firm does so i cant tell if it goes up or down!

johnfelstead

Just a bit of info from me.

First of all, when i was learning to drive(for the road anyway, all 4 lessons. LOL) The teaching was always drive with your doors unlocked so if you have a crash and pass out people can get to you. I bet 95% of people of my generation still do this and never think about locking the doors when they get in the car.

Thats me OK in the westie then, 2 seats, no doors, i wont touch the rest. LOL

Personal experiences of crime in the last 18 months.

1) My then 59 year old mother was mugged outside her front door, beaten to the ground and had her handbag stolen. No arest made.
2) Chap who lived just up the road from me i used to chat to, had a lovely sapphire cosworth. Had his house broken into, was beaten up and his keys taken. They took his car and used it in a post office robery. No arest made.
3) My dad's house was broken into, had the video and TV stolen. No arest made.
4) My mum bought the first near new car she had ever owned, fiesta, vandalised within 2 weeks. No arest made.
5) My garage was broken into, my wheels and tyres stolen, the steering smashed etc. No arest made.

My mum and dad live in manchester in diferent areas, i live on the outskirts now.

When i was a kid growing up in inner city manchester it was not a beautiful place by any means, but people looked out for each other, kids played in the streets and parks together and on the whole crime was not all that common. Of course you had the rough *******s but they were not a menace.

Now, it's strange if you ever see kids in the street playing together. No one looks out for each other, crime is a regular ocurance. Something HAS changed in our society over the last 30 years and it's not for the better. Most people are not living in the poverty and slums like i grew up in, although they are not in country mansions they do have a bathroom and clothes to wear that arent completely bolloxed so the excuse that poverty is causing this increase in crime is not valid.


I think society has become a very selfish place on the whole.I dont know why this has happened, i am no expert in the way a society works but we do seem to have a nation of "it's nowt to do with me, it aint worth the agro". Some of this is fear, some of this is laziness, some of this is the knowledge that if you do get involved its a waste of time anyway.

My sister had a baby 2 days ago, i dread to think what a state this country is going to be in when she is my age if something radically diferent doesnt happen.

I am not saying Car jacking is common, statistically it isnt, what is common and is becoming more so by the day is violent crime and theft. Something has to be done that makes a diference. At the moment nothing is. Criminals dont fear being caught anymore and people dont take care of each other if it means putting any real effort in. Pretty **** really!

I will still have the things i work hard for though, if i stopped doing that then whats the point in working in the first place? I hope i dont get priced out of the market due to insurance increases which are happening. The cost to insure my Sport was nuts this year. I used to have a company car till november and it was a big shock at how much premiums had risen since i last owned my cosworth, that was only 2 years previously.

MTR

Tiggs,
I can see it now the Evo boys getting upset. 'My cars better than yours for bank jobs'

Just as an observation about differing attitudes to crime generally, and to clarify that I do understand why you feel as you do about an apparently disproportionate concern over recent events.

My mums sister and husband (auntie & uncle) left Oldham 35 years ago and now live somewhere else in the UK.
Their house has never been burgled, they have never been a victim of crime, car or other. Their garage is permanently left unlocked and the side door into the garage hasn't even have a lock fitted.
They leave their brand new pedal bikes in the garage, oblivious to any risk.

When I stayed one weekend with my family, I blocked my Impreza in the drive with 2 cars, alarmed, locked up with all manner of additional security devices, and slept with th ekeys in bed with me.

They couldn't believe my actions, because they have a different mind set to people like myself, who has found himself living in a far greater crime ridden area than them.

Likewise on holiday in Jersey 2 years ago, talking to a family from Glasgow we were discussing how safe and almost crime free Jersey was.
We all agreed we would dearly love to live there. You felt so safe.

The lady from Glasgow said she didn't let her 2 young children play out at night back home because it is so dangerous.
But she was perefectly happy to let them run free in Jersey.

Towards the end of the holiday we saw a lady walking a small dog along a very quiet deserted road at night, obviously unconcerned.

I found the sight of that quite amazing, as around Oldham on pretty much any road, if you walk around alone in the evening there is a good chance you will be attacked.

Several of these type of incidents have made th enational press.

The point being is I understand how people from different areas find it hard to comprehend what others lifestyles and fears are.

Reading about John Felsteads experiences doesn't suprise me at all, as he only lives about 6 miles from me.
But my Auntie would be horrified if those sort of incidents were occuring close to where she lives.

John Felstead,
They could use the Westfield if they wanted to drive under barriers without stopping.
But I can't imagine two 17 stone 6'4" robbers fitting in it.

Cheers MTR

johnfelstead

I was listening to radio 5 last night after writing the above. They were interviewing the chief of police of New York City on this very subject and how he turned around a city that was the highest crime rate in the world to one that is now one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

He basically said they did what a lot of people want to see here. They doubled the number of prison places and had a zero tolerence policy on crime. They recruited 100,000 more police and targeted them to specific areas where crime was prevelent. It took them 10 years to turn things round. He said that the new york subway was the first place they went after. That used to have hundreds of serious crimes reported on it daily when he started. The last year he was the chief of police they had NONE reported. He also said that they are now closing prisons because they dont need them anymore, the crime rate has dropped so drastically because criminals know that they will go to prison, that has meant once they got the message they did not re-offend so the prisons arent needed.

NEW YORK is now seen as a major tourist city, Millions of people visit each year now because it is seen as safe to do so. LONDON is a major tourist city and it's losing tourist's by the day because it is now seen as a dangerous place to visit.

The USA is now seeing a major downward trend in crime as a whole, Europe is the complete oposite. Someone from our "government" should go speak to those people and learn from them.

Ian Griffiths

The only time my car door is unlocked it when I'm passing through it, and my car hasn't even been mentioned in this thread. I had a friend car jacked out of a *Corsa* just so the stupid dregs who stole it could joyride back and forward past their dreggy mates.

Tiggs

people lock their garages???

carl

IIRC your chances of being killed in a car accident are 50% per 1,000,000 miles.

[Edited by carl - 3/7/2002 1:19:23 PM]

Mo

My point exactly.

I'm not saying you should sell the car and get a fiesta but there's nothing wrong with people showing a little concern.

May be when it happens on your door step you'll think differently.

A little paranoia can be a good thing because it certainly ain't gonna get any better out there.

[Edited by Mo - 3/7/2002 1:49:18 PM]

EvilBevel

Never mind, can't be bothered anymore

[Edited by EvilBevel - 3/7/2002 8:29:25 PM]

Dave T-S

We were burgled three years ago.

18 months ago I fell off the ladder whilst painting the house and smashed my wrist (which caused great merriment on the board at the time).

Our house lies directly under the landing flightpath for Stansted Airport. More chance of us having a Boeing 737 land on our heads than the meteor hitting Tiggs (if it's bloody Ryanair i'm going to charge them a landing fee ).

The point is **** happens.

We should all be vigilant, take all reasonable security measures.....and go about our daily business.

One post (from someone who lived in London) said he would get his wife, girlfriend, or whatever to start locking the car doors. FFS, she should have been doing that for years - we have!

The point I was making was that there appears to be an outbreak of mass hysteria here over the last couple of days - which just shows how apathetic and careless with their property a large number of people were before a couple of days ago. As has been demonstrated, carjackings/armed breakins have been happening for a while - yet many people still walk around with "it won't happen to me" syndrome

No doubt in a couple of weeks a large number of people will go back to being apathetic again.

NOTE - my sympathy goes to those that are the victims of crime, and I am not talking about those that DO take all reasonable steps to protect their property.

[Edited by Dave T-S - 3/7/2002 8:47:48 PM]