Hero's welcome for Lockerbie bomber.
21 August 2009, 01:56 PM
#31
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The thing that bothers me is whether he was convicted in a fair trial. It is said that he was found guilty on circumstantial evidence, ie fibres in the suitcase on the aircraft was contained the bomb were compared to clothing that were said to have been in his possession, I wonder how positive that evidence actually was, and also why was a witness who had told a congresswoman that he knew the bombers' identity and that they were not Libyan gagged by the US govt. from giving evidence at the trial. Also the trial was badly and unfairly conducted.
I personally feel that he may well have been incorrectly convicted, undoubtedly for political reasons, and although I cannot prove such a thing, it puts doubt into my mind over the verdict of that court.
I also think that the reasons given by the Scottish justice minister were well put together and all in all together with my doubts about the trial I think it was right to release him from custody and to allow him to go home to die in peace with his family, If he was guilty after all, what is three months or so less time in custody in importance in general with respect to a man doomed to die soon from an awful and painful disease when he may well not be guilty anyway?
Les
I personally feel that he may well have been incorrectly convicted, undoubtedly for political reasons, and although I cannot prove such a thing, it puts doubt into my mind over the verdict of that court.
I also think that the reasons given by the Scottish justice minister were well put together and all in all together with my doubts about the trial I think it was right to release him from custody and to allow him to go home to die in peace with his family, If he was guilty after all, what is three months or so less time in custody in importance in general with respect to a man doomed to die soon from an awful and painful disease when he may well not be guilty anyway?
Les
I think that is a well put summarisation of most compassionate peoples view on the matter
21 August 2009, 02:03 PM
#32
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21 August 2009, 02:38 PM
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21 August 2009, 09:53 PM
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Take the wigs off boys!!!
I think it is utter conjecture, pontification and an absolute red herring to comment on this story based on your own individual opinion on a how fair a trial it was for this Libyan (that cost millions). I'm sorry but a 'feeling' is no grounds for such a MASSIVE effective pardon for what I must still presume to be an absolute mass murder of children and other individuals. Would you feel the same for similar child killer Hindley? NO! Absolute evil deserves absolute punishment. Its not callous vengeance but righteous retribution and something that serves to underpin and define civilized society, absolutely.
Whoever he is whatever he is, the only way he should have gone home was on morphine on a stretcher and WITHOUT a heroes welcome.
I'm shocked some of you dispose of basic righteous principles of decent society so and I think it makes us a bit of a limp wristed laughing stock. Kick our **** some more world...and send us home some more daily dead Welsh soldiers. Sick of hearing of their deaths each day (but now I rant and digress!)
I, as, I hope, a very compassionate individual, feel 'we' have been mugs, hypocritical and weak.
I think it is utter conjecture, pontification and an absolute red herring to comment on this story based on your own individual opinion on a how fair a trial it was for this Libyan (that cost millions). I'm sorry but a 'feeling' is no grounds for such a MASSIVE effective pardon for what I must still presume to be an absolute mass murder of children and other individuals. Would you feel the same for similar child killer Hindley? NO! Absolute evil deserves absolute punishment. Its not callous vengeance but righteous retribution and something that serves to underpin and define civilized society, absolutely.
Whoever he is whatever he is, the only way he should have gone home was on morphine on a stretcher and WITHOUT a heroes welcome.
I'm shocked some of you dispose of basic righteous principles of decent society so and I think it makes us a bit of a limp wristed laughing stock. Kick our **** some more world...and send us home some more daily dead Welsh soldiers. Sick of hearing of their deaths each day (but now I rant and digress!)
I, as, I hope, a very compassionate individual, feel 'we' have been mugs, hypocritical and weak.
21 August 2009, 10:06 PM
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21 August 2009, 10:08 PM
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Sorry to answer on Davids behalf but here is what Jim Swire, who lost his daughter in Lockerbie, had to say.
I think it shows massive ***** by the Scottish Government to release him, the more i read about how the trial was held the more I became uncomfortable that it was held as a "Scottish" trial. As for the evidence against him, this details some of the inconsistencies in the investigation and trial. BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Megrahi: 'A convenient scapegoat?'
Good on the Scottish Govenment for standing up to the US and showing this man some compassion.
Brian
I think it shows massive ***** by the Scottish Government to release him, the more i read about how the trial was held the more I became uncomfortable that it was held as a "Scottish" trial. As for the evidence against him, this details some of the inconsistencies in the investigation and trial. BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Megrahi: 'A convenient scapegoat?'
Good on the Scottish Govenment for standing up to the US and showing this man some compassion.
Brian
21 August 2009, 10:54 PM
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Listening to Kenny Macaskill on the radio I also thought it was a very impressive speech. The Scottish nation have grown in stature by this - they stood up to Americas petulant demands (can anyone imagine Blair doing this - lol), but more importantly they showed compassion and mercy to a dying man.
Whilst I never followed the trial closely I always thought it faintly ludicrous that this foot soldier for a Government (or Governments) was the only one to face trial. Like some sacrificial offering, offered up in some political deal...
Whilst I never followed the trial closely I always thought it faintly ludicrous that this foot soldier for a Government (or Governments) was the only one to face trial. Like some sacrificial offering, offered up in some political deal...
2nd'd. And lets not forget that the USA sent F111's from here and bombed Tripoli. Can't see 1 man being responsible for this.
21 August 2009, 11:22 PM
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I grew up in the southwest of Scotland in a town of similar size to Lockerbie, popular rumour in my area at the time had it that if the bomb had went off a few minutes later then my town could have been hit instead of Lockerbie. i don't know how true this is in retrospect but it affected us all in the area greatly at the time.
If I thought he was guilty then I would have no qualms about him dying in a Scottish jail and never being allowed home. If I was convinced he had been given a fair trial and all the evidence was presented, and people who should have testified had actually testified and he was found guilty, then I would want him to rot.
As it is I think Macaskill has had to make a difficult decision and I respect him for that. Whichever way he went he would have been attacked. He has taken a remarkable stance in this day and age and has actually acted with compassion instead of the usual eye for an eye approach. His statement makes for intersting and balanced reading in my view. My personal opinion is that if there weren't doubts about his conviction then he wouldn't have been released.
Brian
If I thought he was guilty then I would have no qualms about him dying in a Scottish jail and never being allowed home. If I was convinced he had been given a fair trial and all the evidence was presented, and people who should have testified had actually testified and he was found guilty, then I would want him to rot.
As it is I think Macaskill has had to make a difficult decision and I respect him for that. Whichever way he went he would have been attacked. He has taken a remarkable stance in this day and age and has actually acted with compassion instead of the usual eye for an eye approach. His statement makes for intersting and balanced reading in my view. My personal opinion is that if there weren't doubts about his conviction then he wouldn't have been released.
Brian
21 August 2009, 11:28 PM
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Sorry - blood still boiling about how wrong this all is/played out.
D
21 August 2009, 11:53 PM
#43
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The point I was trying to make was that if it had been a clear cut "Yes, I am guilty, I did it" do you think McAskill would have taken the same course of action?
Brian
22 August 2009, 12:03 AM
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I live 12 miles from lockerbie. Close enough for my sister to see the fireball. I know the guy who was one of the 1st police officers on the scene. He has never been the same since.Its not just the immediate families of the dead who have been affected for life.
It sounds like there is some doubt wheather Megrahi was the man behind behind the bombing.
So if he was. And he was found guilty by a court of law. He should be shown the compassion that he showed the people on board the plane and he should rot in prison untill he dies.
And if he did not and they realeased him to avoid an embarrasing second appeal. Why are they not looking for whoever is really behind it?
Oh, i forgot. Tony Blair just signed a deal to search for oil with Gadaffi.
It sounds like there is some doubt wheather Megrahi was the man behind behind the bombing.
So if he was. And he was found guilty by a court of law. He should be shown the compassion that he showed the people on board the plane and he should rot in prison untill he dies.
And if he did not and they realeased him to avoid an embarrasing second appeal. Why are they not looking for whoever is really behind it?
Oh, i forgot. Tony Blair just signed a deal to search for oil with Gadaffi.
22 August 2009, 12:50 AM
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It sounds like there is some doubt whether Megrahi was the man behind behind the bombing.
So if he was. And he was found guilty by a court of law. He should be shown the compassion that he showed the people on board the plane and he should rot in prison untill he dies.
And if he did not and they realeased him to avoid an embarrasing second appeal. Why are they not looking for whoever is really behind it?
Oh, i forgot. Tony Blair just signed a deal to search for oil with Gadaffi.
So if he was. And he was found guilty by a court of law. He should be shown the compassion that he showed the people on board the plane and he should rot in prison untill he dies.
And if he did not and they realeased him to avoid an embarrasing second appeal. Why are they not looking for whoever is really behind it?
Oh, i forgot. Tony Blair just signed a deal to search for oil with Gadaffi.
22 August 2009, 12:56 AM
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22 August 2009, 03:13 AM
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This man was found guilty in a court of law and regardless of any failings of that court is still legally a guilty man.
That he was released after such a short time for such a shocking crime beggars belief, the fact that he has a terminal illness makes no difference at all to me.
That he was released after such a short time for such a shocking crime beggars belief, the fact that he has a terminal illness makes no difference at all to me.
I do recall the the Third Reich courts of law has some "failings", but still managed to produce a lot of guilty people to hang . . . .
22 August 2009, 09:20 AM
#49
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it took 3 appeals over a period 15 years for the Birmingham Six to be released free men
similiar for the Guildford 4
common thread was politically motivated expedient convictions
The Judicial system rarely admits to its mistakes
similiar for the Guildford 4
common thread was politically motivated expedient convictions
The Judicial system rarely admits to its mistakes
22 August 2009, 11:27 AM
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No one is trying to say that the Lockerbie crash was not a dreadful disaster and that whoever was responsible for it does not deserve to be strung up for causing it.
Is it right though to allow personal feelings to take over when considering a man whom we cannot be sure was guilty of the crime.
Les
Is it right though to allow personal feelings to take over when considering a man whom we cannot be sure was guilty of the crime.
Les
23 August 2009, 02:17 PM
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If what is behind all this is the alleged 'unsafe conviction' it remains an absolute travesty of everything to deal with it this way. Announcing a pardon due to new evidence would be far preferable to this charade that makes an utter mockery of so many things.
Those rose petals flying at him in Tripoli stick in my throat big time.
D
Those rose petals flying at him in Tripoli stick in my throat big time.
D
23 August 2009, 02:22 PM
#52
Take the wigs off boys!!!
I think it is utter conjecture, pontification and an absolute red herring to comment on this story based on your own individual opinion on a how fair a trial it was for this Libyan (that cost millions). I'm sorry but a 'feeling' is no grounds for such a MASSIVE effective pardon for what I must still presume to be an absolute mass murder of children and other individuals. Would you feel the same for similar child killer Hindley? NO! Absolute evil deserves absolute punishment. Its not callous vengeance but righteous retribution and something that serves to underpin and define civilized society, absolutely.
Whoever he is whatever he is, the only way he should have gone home was on morphine on a stretcher and WITHOUT a heroes welcome.
I'm shocked some of you dispose of basic righteous principles of decent society so and I think it makes us a bit of a limp wristed laughing stock. Kick our **** some more world...and send us home some more daily dead Welsh soldiers. Sick of hearing of their deaths each day (but now I rant and digress!)
I, as, I hope, a very compassionate individual, feel 'we' have been mugs, hypocritical and weak.
I think it is utter conjecture, pontification and an absolute red herring to comment on this story based on your own individual opinion on a how fair a trial it was for this Libyan (that cost millions). I'm sorry but a 'feeling' is no grounds for such a MASSIVE effective pardon for what I must still presume to be an absolute mass murder of children and other individuals. Would you feel the same for similar child killer Hindley? NO! Absolute evil deserves absolute punishment. Its not callous vengeance but righteous retribution and something that serves to underpin and define civilized society, absolutely.
Whoever he is whatever he is, the only way he should have gone home was on morphine on a stretcher and WITHOUT a heroes welcome.
I'm shocked some of you dispose of basic righteous principles of decent society so and I think it makes us a bit of a limp wristed laughing stock. Kick our **** some more world...and send us home some more daily dead Welsh soldiers. Sick of hearing of their deaths each day (but now I rant and digress!)
I, as, I hope, a very compassionate individual, feel 'we' have been mugs, hypocritical and weak.
23 August 2009, 02:33 PM
#53
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What I am not getting here is that this guy was and continues to be guilty of the murder of hundreds of people. What I further dont get is why and how people are able to make their own mind up about his guilt and hence dismiss what has happened. I'm sorry if that doesnt make me 'open minded' or indeed 'refreshing'
Also having a different opinion (and yes a strong one here, as I had on Baby P etc) does not mean animosity or vilification of others. Well not with me anyway, so I'm sorry you got that from my post.
D
Also having a different opinion (and yes a strong one here, as I had on Baby P etc) does not mean animosity or vilification of others. Well not with me anyway, so I'm sorry you got that from my post.
D
23 August 2009, 02:46 PM
#54
What I am not getting here is that this guy was and continues to be guilty of the murder of hundreds of people. What I further dont get is why and how people are able to make their own mind up about his guilt and hence dismiss what has happened. I'm sorry if that doesnt make me 'open minded' or indeed 'refreshing'
Also having a different opinion (and yes a strong one here, as I had on Baby P etc) does not mean animosity or vilification of others. Well not with me anyway, so I'm sorry you got that from my post.
D
Also having a different opinion (and yes a strong one here, as I had on Baby P etc) does not mean animosity or vilification of others. Well not with me anyway, so I'm sorry you got that from my post.
D
24 August 2009, 07:59 AM
#56
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The guildford 4 etc - so far as I'm aware - got off on technicalities.
Doubt very much that they were just innocent Irish tourists on a stag weekend.
Anyroad - his guilt is **** all to do with the arguments.
He was convicted or murdering 270 people - and served two weeks in prison per person.
He should have been left to rot in jail (and the compassionate side of me would allow him to rot in a Libyan Jail).
He should never have been set free in the name of the compassionate Scots - Cos I haven't met anyone that thinks what happened was a good thing !
Doubt very much that they were just innocent Irish tourists on a stag weekend.
Anyroad - his guilt is **** all to do with the arguments.
He was convicted or murdering 270 people - and served two weeks in prison per person.
He should have been left to rot in jail (and the compassionate side of me would allow him to rot in a Libyan Jail).
He should never have been set free in the name of the compassionate Scots - Cos I haven't met anyone that thinks what happened was a good thing !
28 August 2009, 01:26 PM
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PANAM didn't follow well established procedure, ie, they allowed baggage to be loaded at Heathrow, that was a transfer from another flight from Malta I think, without an accompanying passenger. The passenger didn't board at Heathrow. Mind you, that would not have stopped the bomb from going off, but at least it would not have been on the plane.
Don't know if anyone else knows, a large section of the plane is still at Farnborough.
Don't know if anyone else knows, a large section of the plane is still at Farnborough.