is Scotland a 'seperate' country now?
26 August 2009, 09:09 AM
#151
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The stupid thing is that the English don't fundamentally dislike the Scots in the same way that the Scots seem to loathe the English, but it's the Scots' continual banging on about how awful we are that gets a lot of English people's backs up. Who fookin cares what happened hundreds of years ago? Only the Scots i think.
Last edited by Iain01; 26 August 2009 at 09:14 AM.
26 August 2009, 09:17 AM
#153
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By which i mean, the English would draw a line under the mutual animosity faaar more readily than the Scots, in my opinion. Could be wrong, but that's how i see it.
26 August 2009, 09:27 AM
#154
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Being an Englishman (well sort of) who lived in Scotland for over decade I was totally shocked at the Scottish Nationalism/anti-English jibing that I got when I arrived.
When I first moved there I had no real sense of English Nationalism but from day one it was a constant, to be fair mostly in fun, jibing at the English. On the back of this I developed a fine sense of winding up the Scots - again mostly in fun.
Before going there, however, I had no sense of this at all.
So I would strongly support Telboy's comment that English mostly don't give a toss about the whole Scottish Nationalism thing, not in the way the Scots do about the English. They expect us to be Nationalistic.
I don't see any English people banging on about how many things the English have invented - of course the key thing the English have invented is how to totally overcome and rule the Celtic nations
And of all the years I spent in Scotland the saddest thing of all is that on a day when Scotland could be playing say Brazil at footbaw and say the Faroe Isles were playing England at TiddlyWinks in the first round of the Under-12 world championships; the Scots would be more interested in England losing.
Now that is a f***ing big chip to carry around.
A generalisation, of course, but a pervasive one. In the 1991 Rugby World Cup, Australia Shirts sold out very quickly in Scotland before the Final!!
When I first moved there I had no real sense of English Nationalism but from day one it was a constant, to be fair mostly in fun, jibing at the English. On the back of this I developed a fine sense of winding up the Scots - again mostly in fun.
Before going there, however, I had no sense of this at all.
So I would strongly support Telboy's comment that English mostly don't give a toss about the whole Scottish Nationalism thing, not in the way the Scots do about the English. They expect us to be Nationalistic.
I don't see any English people banging on about how many things the English have invented - of course the key thing the English have invented is how to totally overcome and rule the Celtic nations
And of all the years I spent in Scotland the saddest thing of all is that on a day when Scotland could be playing say Brazil at footbaw and say the Faroe Isles were playing England at TiddlyWinks in the first round of the Under-12 world championships; the Scots would be more interested in England losing.
Now that is a f***ing big chip to carry around.
A generalisation, of course, but a pervasive one. In the 1991 Rugby World Cup, Australia Shirts sold out very quickly in Scotland before the Final!!
26 August 2009, 09:37 AM
#155
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- no wonder the sweaties decided to back the Aussies.
26 August 2009, 09:40 AM
#157
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I tell her that the nice Jocks far outweigh the mindless ******
.You get mindless ****** everywhere - but it is always funny when you square up to them and they stfu
26 August 2009, 09:42 AM
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26 August 2009, 10:13 AM
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Ok i'd like comments from both sides, is this true what this guy is saying or talking b*****ks?
Flawed Scots schizophrenic, says McLeish - Scotland on Sunday
To me it sums up SOME Scottish people far better than i could ever put put forward.
Flawed Scots schizophrenic, says McLeish - Scotland on Sunday
To me it sums up SOME Scottish people far better than i could ever put put forward.
26 August 2009, 10:15 AM
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26 August 2009, 10:50 AM
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26 August 2009, 10:58 AM
#164
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wow what a heavy bunch off complete morons on here.
1st off SCOTLAND is the place to be. And no i aint gonna say why, its self explanitary.
the only bad point off being SCOTTISH is we are conected to a bunch off poofters (english)
yep we wear kilts not just at weddings but at many an event.
Or is it quilts we wear (spot the muppet) and we are knowen for living in england. coz some****s gotta show thier wimmen a good time.
now here goes, it must be hard for the english, not being able to manage nout wi out the help of other countrys. not knowing what a real **** is or even having an identity now. coz there aint many real english left. its all other populations. Asia. Pakistan, Affrica etc etc.
all your country has going for it now is the royal family.
yer air stinks, the waters pure ****e. its not ment to run in lumps. and yous canny even speak yer aine language. yi aw try to talk like the coloured brotherhood. Mean wits that aboot?
anyhow yi aw pissed mi richt aff there.
no we aint fully independent, cos the english wouldnt survive wi out us. not just our oil but all the water booze and tourisim. contributes aswell. and we aint arrogant thats england. we will say to your face what we think. or tell you straight if yous annoy us. we dont run aboot telling others then deny it when pulled up.
But we do have great big bawz. unlike the *****
1st off SCOTLAND is the place to be. And no i aint gonna say why, its self explanitary.
the only bad point off being SCOTTISH is we are conected to a bunch off poofters (english)
yep we wear kilts not just at weddings but at many an event.
Or is it quilts we wear
(spot the muppet) and we are knowen for living in england. coz some****s gotta show thier wimmen a good time. now here goes, it must be hard for the english, not being able to manage nout wi out the help of other countrys. not knowing what a real **** is or even having an identity now. coz there aint many real english left. its all other populations. Asia. Pakistan, Affrica etc etc.
all your country has going for it now is the royal family.
yer air stinks, the waters pure ****e. its not ment to run in lumps. and yous canny even speak yer aine language. yi aw try to talk like the coloured brotherhood. Mean wits that aboot?
anyhow yi aw pissed mi richt aff there.
no we aint fully independent, cos the english wouldnt survive wi out us. not just our oil but all the water booze and tourisim. contributes aswell. and we aint arrogant thats england. we will say to your face what we think. or tell you straight if yous annoy us. we dont run aboot telling others then deny it when pulled up.
But we do have great big bawz. unlike the *****
26 August 2009, 10:59 AM
#165
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Much like the quiet wee football match in London last night?
26 August 2009, 11:13 AM
#166
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From what I have seen of this thread, it appears to have been a complete waste of time and energy trying to prove something that neither side would ever agree about anyway.
People are people the world over, some good some bad of course. What on earth is the point of getting into a shouting match like this with no possibility of a sensible result?
Les
People are people the world over, some good some bad of course. What on earth is the point of getting into a shouting match like this with no possibility of a sensible result?
Les
26 August 2009, 11:14 AM
#167
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Do you pay a higher rate of tax than people with an equivalent income in England?
The reason I ask is that Scots receive more than £1,600 more per head of public spending each year than the UK average.
A few quotes, as examples, from this article.
"Launching a new study, Professor Anton Muscatelli said it was "very difficult to justify" the Barnett formula, which determines the size of the block grant Westminster hands Scotland each year."
"In a further blow to the Scottish National Party's economic arguments for independence, the report also warns that "the volatility of oil prices means this would not deliver a stable revenue stream"."
"He said the Barnett formula's main advantages are simplicity and stability, but "on all other grounds" it falls short.
These include a perceived lack of autonomy, accountability and equity, with increasing political pressure from English taxpayers unhappy at Scots benefiting from policies that are unavailable south of the Border."
"As well as grants, the report examines handing the Scottish Parliament more tax-raising powers and allowing Holyrood to keep taxes raised in Scotland.
The latter two would give Scottish ministers more incentive to pursue policies that would stimulate economic growth, but it concludes that a "self-financing Scotland within the Union" would mean less public spending north of the Border.
Even taking into account North Sea oil tax revenue, Scotland's annual budget deficit stands at £2.7billion, the report states."
So why would you do that when Scotland is such a paradise?
And why would it not be better in Scotland than in England when you get a shedload more money spent on each person there?!
Seems to me that the English have every reason to be less than happy about things and the Scots have no grounds for whining.
The reason I ask is that Scots receive more than £1,600 more per head of public spending each year than the UK average.
A few quotes, as examples, from this article.
"Launching a new study, Professor Anton Muscatelli said it was "very difficult to justify" the Barnett formula, which determines the size of the block grant Westminster hands Scotland each year."
"In a further blow to the Scottish National Party's economic arguments for independence, the report also warns that "the volatility of oil prices means this would not deliver a stable revenue stream"."
"He said the Barnett formula's main advantages are simplicity and stability, but "on all other grounds" it falls short.
These include a perceived lack of autonomy, accountability and equity, with increasing political pressure from English taxpayers unhappy at Scots benefiting from policies that are unavailable south of the Border."
"As well as grants, the report examines handing the Scottish Parliament more tax-raising powers and allowing Holyrood to keep taxes raised in Scotland.
The latter two would give Scottish ministers more incentive to pursue policies that would stimulate economic growth, but it concludes that a "self-financing Scotland within the Union" would mean less public spending north of the Border.
Even taking into account North Sea oil tax revenue, Scotland's annual budget deficit stands at £2.7billion, the report states."
So why would you do that when Scotland is such a paradise?
And why would it not be better in Scotland than in England when you get a shedload more money spent on each person there?!
Seems to me that the English have every reason to be less than happy about things and the Scots have no grounds for whining.
Emma,
There are reports that contradict the ones you quote. All are fairly subjective by the nature of what they are discussing (ie future revenue streams)
Did you just choose to ignore my post about the relative contribution of UK regions? Much of England is subsidised too. Maybe London and the South East shoudl stop subsidising the West, the North, and the Midlands too.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Scotland is less of a drain on the contributing parts of England than most of England is. I'd say those contributing parts have more to be pissed off about with their own Countrymen and women, than with the Scots (or Irish, or Welsh)
So, that begs the question. Where abouts in England do you reside?
Are you a contributor or a recipient?
Becasue if its not in a Contributing area, I'd suggest shutting the **** up about something that you possibly only know about through google
26 August 2009, 11:20 AM
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26 August 2009, 11:21 AM
#171
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Emma,
There are reports that contradict the ones you quote. All are fairly subjective by the nature of what they are discussing (ie future revenue streams)
Did you just choose to ignore my post about the relative contribution of UK regions? Much of England is subsidised too. Maybe London and the South East shoudl stop subsidising the West, the North, and the Midlands too.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Scotland is less of a drain on the contributing parts of England than most of England is. I'd say those contributing parts have more to be pissed off about with their own Countrymen and women, than with the Scots (or Irish, or Welsh)
So, that begs the question. Where abouts in England do you reside?
Are you a contributor or a recipient?
Becasue if its not in a Contributing area, I'd suggest shutting the **** up about something that you possibly only know about through google
There are reports that contradict the ones you quote. All are fairly subjective by the nature of what they are discussing (ie future revenue streams)
Did you just choose to ignore my post about the relative contribution of UK regions? Much of England is subsidised too. Maybe London and the South East shoudl stop subsidising the West, the North, and the Midlands too.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Scotland is less of a drain on the contributing parts of England than most of England is. I'd say those contributing parts have more to be pissed off about with their own Countrymen and women, than with the Scots (or Irish, or Welsh)
So, that begs the question. Where abouts in England do you reside?
Are you a contributor or a recipient?
Becasue if its not in a Contributing area, I'd suggest shutting the **** up about something that you possibly only know about through google
are your assessments inclusive of local subsidy from the public sector. There was an analysis done took account of indirect subsidy in the form of two key factors - location of key public sector activities and any additional subsidies they would attract.
For example the Treasury is located primarily in London which is a key activity contributing to the economy and there is an additional subsidy as Treasury workers will get a London Allowance and a Travel Allowance on top of their basic salaries.
When taking this into account the South-East has more subsidy per capita than Scotland (not sure about the rest of England as I only remember the comparison with Scotland).
The South-East has a disproportionate amount of direct and indirect Government funding through the Public Sector, Health Service and Armed Forces.
26 August 2009, 11:24 AM
#174
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From what I have seen of this thread, it appears to have been a complete waste of time and energy trying to prove something that neither side would ever agree about anyway.
People are people the world over, some good some bad of course. What on earth is the point of getting into a shouting match like this with no possibility of a sensible result?
Les
People are people the world over, some good some bad of course. What on earth is the point of getting into a shouting match like this with no possibility of a sensible result?
Les
it's not about the winning, it's about taking part!
Having lived in Scotland they are like clockwork toys and that in itself is a sensible result
Trout
26 August 2009, 11:30 AM
#175
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A lot of the Scots on this thread seem to be claiming to have big brass ones, but I don't think that sort is much use in seeing the future.
Besides, I have just as much reason to suspect that your knowledge comes from Google as you do of mine.Anyway, I am far more interested in winding up irate, illiterate, rabid Scots than I am in arguing over which areas subsidise which other areas.
26 August 2009, 11:32 AM
#176
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Tel,
The argument goes both ways.
Us Scots, like the Welsh and the Irish are very proud of our heritage. We are, as a nation, very flawed, but then, what nation isn't?
What heritage does England have - because we never hear much about it?
The Scots don't fundimentally hate English people. Far from it. Its the kind of attitude admirably demonstrated by Emma's post about not accepting anything in that list becase of some mistakes. Its that arrogance that everone else in the world (except the English, apparently) see that (among others) the Scots don't like.
And again, I'd have to say that the support of the opposing team when England is playing football has far more to do with the English media than it does with any "fundimental dislike" of English people.
Yet you choose to ignore that point, as many of your compatriots choose to ignore the fact that maybe its not rest of the world thats wrong, and maybe England as a nation is as flawed as anywhere else.
So, I await some intelligent response from Emma in particular to the points I've raised, rather than her challengeing some of my compatriots who are clearly passionate about their country, but perhaps not able to put that down as elloquently as would perhaps be ideal.
The argument goes both ways.
Us Scots, like the Welsh and the Irish are very proud of our heritage. We are, as a nation, very flawed, but then, what nation isn't?
What heritage does England have - because we never hear much about it?
The Scots don't fundimentally hate English people. Far from it. Its the kind of attitude admirably demonstrated by Emma's post about not accepting anything in that list becase of some mistakes. Its that arrogance that everone else in the world (except the English, apparently) see that (among others) the Scots don't like.
And again, I'd have to say that the support of the opposing team when England is playing football has far more to do with the English media than it does with any "fundimental dislike" of English people.
Yet you choose to ignore that point, as many of your compatriots choose to ignore the fact that maybe its not rest of the world thats wrong, and maybe England as a nation is as flawed as anywhere else.
So, I await some intelligent response from Emma in particular to the points I've raised, rather than her challengeing some of my compatriots who are clearly passionate about their country, but perhaps not able to put that down as elloquently as would perhaps be ideal.
26 August 2009, 11:33 AM
#177
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You've missed the point. It's not me that's ranting on about the purity of my heritage and how my nationality makes me better than everyone else. Tel's already explained it very clearly so I'm not going to lay it all out again.
I don't give so much as half a turd where my historical bloodline flows from. It changes nothing.
I don't give so much as half a turd where my historical bloodline flows from. It changes nothing.
26 August 2009, 11:35 AM
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and proud of it, I guess thats the same thing with the English then, your probably the left overs from the Saxons or Normans or the Romans then none of which are native to here, glass houses and stones yet again