jasey

I once almost came to blows with the manager of a chinese restaurant over this.

I was pointing out to my mates that the tip was already included and he got arsey with me.

Fecking ***** got no tip and no repeat business - and I made it my business to mention to everyone what a bunch of sharks they were

DYK

Luan Pra bang

Hospitality staff typically work long ****ty hours for minimum wage, this does not in general put them in the mood for being nice to customers a tip is the motivation for good service and food and helps to ensire that people can earn a living. if the food cost was increased to include better staff wages a large majority of the increase would end up in the tax mans pocket hence the system of tipping gives customers better service and keeps prices low. Would you expect anyone other than complete morons to work crappy hours for minimum wage ?

worley

I had always approached this with the 10% rule until I asked the French locals for advice on tipping:

(1) Never at lunch
(2) Two or three Euros at the most for evening meal - tip is included in the bill
(3) Only if exceptional service give a bit more


Nik

evil_scoobs

A lot of time everyone said Tip because the staff were paid very poorly and their earnings are made up by the tips. Is that still the case? Im sure most of them are on much more than minimum wage these days.

I usually still leave something though. I always feel funny though when they give you the hand terminal and say "follow the prompts to say how much you want to tip before entering your pin"

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

That's cheap

TX.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Never tip this way as staff probably won't see it or if they do it will be weeks late & will be taxed! Cash only ...

TX.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

How is it cheap? Ok, it may be common practice, and I can see why people do it to a point, but why is it a problem if someone doesn't, anymore than the fact pretty much no-one does it in most other customer service environments?

Why does this only seem to apply to restaurants?

Will

Regardless of where i go, eat etc etc, i never tip. Why should i? they get paid to do their jobs!!!!

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

On this note, I'd say it's because people do a job, that comes with alot of crap (more than people outside of it know) for a normally low wage. I guess it's a reward for good service, and some people think of it as a nice thing to do for people who are working for peanuts more often than not, to line the pockets of others.

I just don't get why this practice seems confined to food outlets so to speak, and not any place that people are in jobs to serve.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

If you sit back and think about it for a minute, thats actually a good point. I read above about Mr Bang's staff not earning a great deal and working long hours etc. It can be and assume it is the same for shop or supermarket workers like yourself and Kim? So why is it not that if you get help bagging or some advice on packing/deals/offers whilst your paying for your shopping, would you not give a couple quid afterwards?

I think part of the answer could be that eating out is a socialble activity/event what ever you wish to call it. In comparison, shopping is something everyone has to do, whether it be once a week, fortnight or monthly shop. And as we have discussed before the food shop is ofr everyone so you mix with all types, those who have a few quid to splash about, then those like me who currently don't. I dunno, it's a hard one as I mentioned above about the Pizza Hut thing, not a top end restaurant or anything and sneered by the snobby types on here, but genuinely good service. I'll be honest, I don't remember the last time I tipped a cashier/till lady @ Asda for a thoroughly good chin wag whilst packing my shopping.

The above makes no sense and I contradict myself, I know

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

You may well be right that it's down to the social aspect of eating out, rather than the everyday aspect of shopping. I mean you could be pulling out alot on top if you tipped everytime you shop. However I guess the same would apply, you'd only tip if the service went beyond expectation.

I wouldn't expect to be tipped in my job, as I am doing just that, but when I think what myself and others do at times to help people out, you can sit back and wonder why when you do pull out the stops for people, you are excluded from a little 'gift'.

In retail, the amount of crap you put up with is unvelievable (more than people would think), yet there are very few perks. These days you're lucky to get a bloody thank you, which would be more than enough for me.

I've seen myself (well thanks to the other half who gave me a lift) go and drop something off at a customers home after my shift. Not paid for going, and didn't even get a thanks when I turned up with it, in fact quite the opposite, even though they knew I was doing this in my free time. People eh..

Leslie

I think many waiters don't get paid very much purely because it is expected that they will get tips. I don't agree with that and think it is greed on the part of the owner of the restaurant.

Les

Luan Pra bang

The point is that if you can get minimum wage for working 9-5 hours in a shop why work almost every friday and saturday night new years eve christmas day etc for minimum wage. They also work split shifts meaning you get only useless time off as you have to be back to work in the evening hence a day that starts at 11 am finishes at midnight but only encompasses nine hours of work.
AS for the greed on the part of restaurant owners I find that massively offensive considering how hard it is to break even in an independant restaurant let alone make money.
. I have known people run restaurants for 10-20 years living of a few hundred pounds a week working 70-80 hours plus. Real restaurants are run as a labour of love not as a money making exercise because when it comes to it people mainly prefer the cheaper prices of the characterless long chains.

GC8WRX

Table of more than six is a pain in the ****?



Only if the staff cant cope cos they are poorly trained or have a bad attitude!


i regularly go out with 10 plus mates for a bite to eat and if we got an automatic 10% charge simply for filling up the restaurant we would leave asap, that takes the ****!


But then again your the guy who says designated drivers should be punished with 5 quid glasses of coke if they dare not to drink your alcohol!


Im never coming to anywhere you manage or own cos your attitude stinks mate, its as if you hate the customer and see them as a cash cow, not as the lifeblood of your business, a bit like ryan air boss O'Leary!


Nothing personal but i think you need to rethink your attitude as a manager!

Tidgy

i dont pay it at all.

you don;t go and have work done at a garage and get them turn round and say give us £20 tip do you?

i expect polite decent service, if it doesn't happen then i complain.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

From Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip:

"In countries where tipping is expected (the United States for example), complicated unofficial standards and customs have developed over the exact percentage to tip, and what should and should not be included in this calculation. In other cultures where tipping exists it is more flexible and no specific assumptions of the tip amount exist.

Tipping is intended to improve service, as workers will receive higher tips from satisfied customers. In the United States, employees underpay workers with the expectation that tips will make up the difference. The practice of tipping is controversial, with numerous criticisms. Some have criticized the inherent "social awkwardness" in transactions that involve tipping, the inconsistency of tipping for some services but not similar ones, and the irrationality of basing tips on price, rather than the amount and quality of service (a customer pays a larger tip for lobster than a hamburger, for example).[5]

Tipping is not expected when a fee is explicitly charged for the service. For example, a service charge for all patrons that is automatically added to the tab with no tipping is very common in Brazil, but it's never mandatory to pay this charge.[6] Bribery and corruption are sometimes disguised as tipping. In some places, police officers and other civil servants openly solicit tips, gifts and dubious fees using a variety of local euphemisms. For example, a traffic policeman in Mexico might ask a commuter to buy him a "refresco" (soft drink), while a Nigerian officer might expect "a little something for the weekend."[7]"

TX.

Simon K

What is the legal position on service charge ?? Most of the restaurants I go to have service charge already added. I thought i.e. I saw / read somewhere, that you can legally refuse to pay that if it isnt mentioned on the menu or front of the house ?

I do tend to tip, but if I dont like somewhere I just dont return.

I also tip other services too, dustmen, hopsital staff, anyone and everyone if the service is good and its not awkward to do so.

Although I can understand the above points about the long hours staff do for minium wage, I still feel thats more their situation than mine and doesnt automatically mean I have to tip. No one is forcing them to work in this industry, like no one is forcing me to work in IT, so its down to their choice working lots of hours for crap money. Do you ever tip a kebab shop person ???

At the end of the day, if someone is helpful, happy and makes me feel welcome, then I tip. However, nowadays, most of the staff seem to be working out their probation or something, as all you get is attitude, sirly behaviour, the feeling they dont want to be there and you're distrubing them and crap service.

SBK

Tidgy

from what im readin gyou can ask for the service charge to be removed as well as an auto tip

GC8WRX

Why would anyone work 80 hours plus for a few hundred quid a week?


Get a better job!







If restaurant life is so difficult why turn away 6 covers?



You dont make sense mate?

Tidgy

read here

Service Charges - You Decide! | Restaurant Spy

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

Generally, if the food is good I'll tip 10%, a little more if the service staff are friendly and efficient. If I've waitied a long time then sometimes I'll not tip at all.

For those who don't tip, a tip for you; if you go back to a resturant expect the regulars who do tip to get preferential treatment.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Exactly, why do it? People choose to do that sort of work for whatever reason, whether it be because they have to or want to. Just as people do the many other minimum wage jobs out there. And don't think shop jobs are 9-5 anymore, most shops are open way longer than that and in the past I did my stint of split shifts in the shop while at school/uni in between. Unsociable hours and split shifts aren't just applicable to the restaurant business.

I respect what people do in that line of work, and if I did go out and get good service, I would happily tip, I just can't agree that it is such a deserving business to rely so heavily on tipping, when other people in not too different workplaces (or pay) it just isn't even considered.

Luan Pra bang

Because they have a massive sense of pride in serving top quality food and helping to give people a great night out as well as the pride of running thier own business. I would rather earn £200 a week for myself than £1000 working for someone else.







I make perfect sense, when did I ever say that I would turn away 6 covers ? I just said that we add a service charge for tables of more than 6 I have never claimed that I would refuse a table who did not want to pay it ?

Luan Pra bang

You try and cook maincourses for a table of 10 to a rosette standard with 30 other customers to keep happy and see how well you do ?


Mcdonalds or pizza express don't count as restaurants


[/quote]But then again your the guy who says designated drivers should be punished with 5 quid glasses of coke if they dare not to drink your alcohol![/quote]

I have never said that but don't let reality fight with your few remaining brain cells


You could not be more wrong if I hated customers I would not bother trying to offer the best service and food I can I would instead sell cheap crap, boil in the bag rubbish and let the local **** heads come in and drink till 2 am.


I do not really spend that much time in the restaurant anymore but none the less I have dedicated hours of my life in the past to maintaing a high standard of food and service and am happy to have won recognition for the fact. When people suggest that I am greedy for paying staff minimum wage it narks me as if you had a clue how tight money and margins are then you would know that paying staff over the odds leads to a rapid bankruptcy and every one losing their jobs.

With regard to tipping I would never suggest for a second that you should tip unless the food and service are top quality tipping should be a motivation to deliver excellent service and food, not a standard 10 percent however good or bad the meal is.

EddScott

Whadda you mean you don't tip?"