shawy1976

iTrader: (8)

Club class has too many they had to put other drivers in the with pro guys this year .
But i understand what people are saying but is my car the same class as john stevensons , robin duxburys , i dont think so .
no special gearboxes here , seam welded or fia cages .
But i have no issues with trying to wip there ***** next year ( or get within 10 secs)

Pavlo

Daily run about that's had more mapping sessions, more turbos, more alignment sessions, more testing and suspension tuning that most Imprezas I know, with lots of development off the back of scoobysprint rounds, built from a stripped out lightweight variant of an already potent car, so I think it's pretty fair to class it as bit of a sprint car, even if you do drive it most days.

Pavlo

If you want to run in Club with your car, run about 450hp then, stop worrying about the 650 you seem to think you need. Zen car ran about 600hp most rounds this year, most it's ever run at TA has been about 670hp, brands last year. Would have been more this year, but bearing stopped play of course! The engine will thank you for running <500hp for sure!

RA Dunk

If people dont need 600+ in club then why do they do it? if it wasnt for these people i would probably do club class myself Paul (well the ones im home for anyway) but as it is its pointless me running 370-400 in the same class as these 550-650 monsters i would be as well as going on a week long binge and pi$$ing my money against a wall lol

IMO its these lot who are putting people off club class and causing people to leave timeattack, I spoke to one competitor a member on here actually who reckoned this would be his last season in T/A cause he cant compete in a practically standard car. Bit of a shame it has come to this all for the sake of people trying to score easy points

utaka

i think that another class is needed would put this issue to bed. i think maybe we should all club together and maybe approach the organisers if there is a genuine problem here. i dont think us all turning on each other and having arguments about this is at all constructive. were all out for the same thing, to race, be competetive and do well. this constant reference to 500bhp cars in club class taking overshadowing less powerfull cars, then surely the same argument will arise again when 500bhp cars have to take on 800bhp cars in club pro. it will just be a new set of people complaining about the same thing. if we spent as much time pulling together and sorting this out as people do having lovers tiffs on this thread maybe some progress would have been made.

JB1

My cars just over 450 bhp and i'm doing ok this year, without wings sticking out all over the place. Lots of people run a lot of power, and more importantly torque, as they think thats what you need.

Competing isn't all about coming first. It's about competing with people at the same level as you. Lots of people go out there knowing that they aren't going to win, but they are aiming at a top ten finish, or to beat a certain person they have their sights on. There's no fame or glory for winning in Club class, it's about doing it. My aim was a podium this year. I am doing much better and thats great, but not to enter incase I wasn't up the sharp end would have been daft.

The class structure is flawed for Time Attack and they need to address it, but that shouldn't stop people entering. I am hoping to move into club Pro next year, but I don't expect to win any rounds

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Dunk - i think it is the opposite myself. This year has been a very hard one financially for a lot of the country, for tuners and for most businesses (myself included). This has been the reason why numbers have been down for this year.

But, there seems to be an even bigger buzz about people doing club next year as they have seem cars like JB and I that are running effectively full weight road cars (not stripped out fully caged monsters) but with good set up (and support), awareness of how to get the hot lap, good driving skills and a reasonable amount of power - good results can be got. Power to weight wise a 400 bhp classic would be better off and quicker than both Jon's and mine - come play.

Builds going on like Utaka's and Shawys are just two examples of the next crop of club or club pro cars. They have chosen their own targets for power but as Paul said, that extra power brings issues in reliability (as I am sure Andy H will vouch for) and driveability.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Exactly - that was my experience last year. I enjoyed the tussles in the low field and was overjoyed with the first qualification to a final at the end of last year with John Begley in the skyline doing the same. I was as happy for him as me.

I set out target times for all tracks at the beginning of the year and have hit all the targets bar knockhill. If anyone beats my time then I am genuinely pleased for them as I know what I gave to do it - they must have just done it better.

It will be the same at Snetterton. I know what I can do there, hopefully I will hit my target time (if/when needed) - if I dont then i have let myself and supporters down. if I do, then I am over the moon. If that time isnt good enough then well done to everyone that beat it. It isnt racing.

Same goes with all of the varying classes within Club Challenge - they are lots of different trophies for differing drive trains, induction etc - there are more than enough prizes for everyone to be in with a chance of doing well and we should celebrate with them for the blood, sweat and tears that they have no doubt had to endure to get there and do well.

shawy1976

iTrader: (8)

My main aim paul is a 10 sec 1/4 mile, time attack is second

I dont think i need 650bhp but it will be there for drag runs and desperate occasions , for time attack it will run mid to high 500,s .
At the end of the day i just want to have fun in the car that is the main thing after seeing friends have nothing but hassle .

Pavlo

Too many classes already.

The facts are that everyone else is talking power, I know the power of Duncan's power (seeing as i tested it) is nowhere near what you think when it runs most of the time. Too much incorrect info and assumption those not actually doing it, is creating a hype that wont be lived up to when it's crunch time.

People go for big power because they know no better, and because it's a myth perpetuated on the internet, where everything is true.

shawy1976

iTrader: (8)

If you think you have any chance of winnning or competing in time attack with 400 bhp you are dreaming anyway i,m sure fiats and hondas and toyotas will leave you for dead
Why do people want 600 bhp because we havent spent 30/40 k on a time attack car, we want to do numerous events and our engine won't last time attack at this power . whats that oil called 3 in 1

There is a class missing and the only thing that is putting of people off from time attack is money , mine is certainly not a pro club car but neither is it a club challenge car ? i dont mind going in with the big boys why do you ?
At the end of the day its a cheapish motorsport and a chance to have some good trackday time with minimum rules . As mentioned before if you want to show of your driving abilities go into a weight bhp sanctioned sport,engine size which would probaly cost triple the amount to keep up with regs

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Step away from the Stella

Lost me mate

Moley

iTrader: (9)

I agree with Duncan, the reason the numbers were down this year was due to the financial problems in the world.

I speak to a lot of Subaru/Evo/Skyline/Ford owners in my job, and i know a LOT of them are looking to entering the 2010 season.....too many if anything. If they operate a 'first come, first served' entry basis you might want to register an interest asap (if possible)

RA Dunk

I wouldent be entering with the thought of winning but more with the thought of being a little bit competative which is what its all about is it not?

I would hardly say 400 against something like your with high 500`s maybe even 600 is being competative, you asked me if i minded going in with the big boys well TBH i do as im not one of them, you say your car is not club or not clup pro either surley the better part of 600 BHP is worthy of club pro? but the question is with all that power you have why dont you then?? looking for easy wins points perhaps?

Like you say there is a class missing but its not only the money putting people off its also the uncompetativeness of it TBH

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Another problem with 350-400bhp cars out there with the 550-600+bhp cars is the slow ones holding the fast ones up.

I'm sure the last thing you need on a flying lap is trying to get past a 350bhp car who is also on a flying lap.

Would love to enter it myself, but would feel like i am in peoples way, and holding them up.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

That doesnt happen Gary in my experience.

You make your own space the same way that the guys in F1 quali do.

The problem only occurs with trying to do a fast lap and meeting someone on a slow lap (whether 25,000bhp or 200bhp)

shawy1976

iTrader: (8)

i,m confused myself

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Would hope that was the case, but didn't know if it worked ok or not.

Will certainly be looking at the regs when they come out, as i fancy doing 'something' with the car next year

Will stick to just sponsoring Time Attack cars i think though!!!

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Actually can I just edit my thing and say it doesnt happen much.

shawy1976

iTrader: (8)

Are you drinking stella like me dunk or have i had too much

if i wanted easy wins i wouldnt enter time attack i want to enjoy my car and scare myself if a podium place comes i,m happy, and as i,ve said 10 times i,ll go in any group and do my best and enjoy myself . if you want easy wins and podiums with 400 bhp time attack is certainly not for you .

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

If you want easy wins/podiums with 650bhp then TA club isnt for you either, but that is another story altogether.

RA Dunk

lol i dont want easy wins or expect podiums TBH, but competing with cars with a similar performance to mine would be nice though, as it is thats not what happens, you need to remember there are still cars there which are almost standard like Dill`s type R also Fee`s hubby Adam will be doing the next round in a lightly modified type R as well, what chance do these two 300BHP cars have against something with double the power?

Which is why i think the rules need a serious going over

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

you have higher power to weight than most out there ... or at least on a par.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

They do it, because they perceive that they need that power.

4 out of 6 rounds last year i ran less than 500, and did reasonably well.

shawy1976

iTrader: (8)

Why did shane smith get moved up then ?
Why do people keep relating club challenge to me , all i,m saying is the spec of my car is nowhere near club pro but also its over specced for club challenge

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Very well put John, thats all i did last year, set myself a target and go for it!

RA Dunk

Your aving a giraffe i hope, I thought i read you were looking for 600(ish) give or take a few?

shawy1976

iTrader: (8)

No steven my main aim is a 10 sec 1/4 mile and like you i won't run the car to its full potential all the time as i dont have 10k plus to repair my car each year or have the sponsors to help with repairs as some pro cars do

And if i,m lucky i might make a event next year

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

What class you are put in depends on TA officials.

They decided at the end of last year that Shane should be in club pro. He protested that he should be allowed in club and was to remove NOS and the sequential gearbox to bring it down to club level but was fully aware of the 5% rule. The sequential gearbox stayed in there and although down a bit on power from last year, he fell foul of that 5% rule at all 3 of the first 3 rounds. Therefore he got moved up and is now in 3rd place in club pro, where the level of prep and power reasonably placed him anyway. Shane is a great bloke, a friend and above all a truly fantastic driver that is comfortable in his car - I was disappointed not to have had a fair and square battle with him at Brands. I think and hope that it would have pushed up both on to better times. We will never know who would have won that one.

Having 900bhp in club will not g'tee podiums. Don't make the mistake of thinking it is about the power.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

2007 cost me £20,000 across the season in TA, and that was 2.5 events out of 4!!!

2008 cost me £6,000 across the season in TA

The difference, car run at sensible levels until the last 2 rounds, where i just said "f11ckit"

Driver ability and car setup will buy you more lost seconds than £'000's spent on power, learnt that one 2 years ago.

Donington 2008 was a huge learner for me, its a circuit i dont get on with (never feel comfortable), previous year, in 2007, i was nailing EVERYONE on the straights, but they were pulling away round the bends. 2008 was the opposite, everyone had upped their power, and barring for a veyr select few, i was being held up through the bends. My car was only running 1.3bar due to running out of time for mapping a brand new engine, as opposed to 1.9bar it was designed to run!