Totally agree duncan
a 400-500 classic with a good set up and lots of time in the car and obviously a good jocky, would be very hard to beet in club IMO

i have done countless track days and karting series in the past and its not all about bhp (i just got a bit carried away with mine )

a decent built motor and decent stock mount turbo is the way forward IMO

andy h

 

ok then tell me which of these is not a seriously tuned car then

Round 4 CLUB CHALLENGE
1. RW Jamie Reynolds (Lotus Elise)…53.048
2. 4W Duncan Graham (Subaru Impreza)…53.100
3. 4W Russ Paton (Mitsubishi EVO 8)…53.910

Round 3
1 – 4WD Shane Smith (Nissan Skyline)…1:02.999
2 – 4WD Duncan Graham (Subaru Impreza)…1:03.419
3 – RWD Paul Whiffin (Toyota Supra JZA80)…1:03.433

Round 2
1 – 4WD Shane Smith (Nissan Skyline)…55.554
2 – 4WD Anthony Elrick (Mitsubishi EVO 6)…55.610
3 – 4WD Russ Paton (Mitsubishi EVO)…56.977

Round 1
1 – 4WD Shane Smith (Nissan Skyline R32 GTR)…1:35.115
2 – 4WD Marcus Webster (Nissan Skyline R32 GTR)…1:36.824
3 – 4WD Duncan Graham (Subaru Impreza)…1:37.111

Why am i seeing no lower powered cars on here say 300-400 horses apart from the Lotus?

 

Bloody hell wheres utaka and andy h when you need them
Come on duncan whats it about then? i keep hearing this , dont you think i can overtake a car with the indicator on

 

come on dunk
thats why i said another class was needed

 

hi gary
me and you need to have a chat mate
it can wait till snetterton
time attack is of interest to me and a mate

 

Why does the lotus not count?

Of course the cars at the top of any motorsport are well prepared, set up and well driven. Did you also happen to see further down the leaderboard at any of the rounds and see 600+bhp cars beaten by 350bhp cars? I suspect not because you didnt want to see that.

If you dont want to pit your 340bhp/ton car against other cars that have a similar power/weight for fear of what you deem to be failure that is up to you - I certainly wont be able to talk you into it.

I know Scott Robson has an awful lot less power in his scooby and is embarassing a few cars with a lot more power. I would be chuffed in his position (as I was last year if I had got rid of the niggles)

Does everyone doing F1 really think they will win or get podiums?
Does everyone doing WRC really think they are going to win or get podiums?

Why do they bother?

It seems to me that what you are saying is countering your own argument, in that you think people with higher power (than you) are after easy wins but you dont want to do it unless you have higher power than them.

Its about picking your battles, setting your targets, improving and celebrating those improvements (and learning from what you could do better)

 

just get the touring car times up, and remember 300 ponies in these, from memory i think the touring cars do oulton in 1min 28 secs ok different tyres but thats all relative, this time would be near top of pro group i think that will put this to bed

ITS ABOUT DRIVER ABILLITY NOT POWER

 

Touring car times are on average 1 to 2 seconds behind the pro times. They have considerably less power, but are setup exceptionally well, and have full slicks.

From memory, changing something like the gobstopper to full slicks woul knock a minimum of a couple of seconds off its lap times.

 

I would love to see RCM and Zen do a proper test on proper slicks....

 

sorry mate but thats crap
works on a karting day
but at an event like TA

its about using the cars power to weight
with a decent driver with track knowledge
to perform at best on the day

 

I think your pretty much spot on there duncan ,There can be arguments for every rule . Get out there enjoy it try to win but most off all have fun

 

thanks steven, my point entirely,

 

Don't really agree, I saw all but one of the tracks this year on the morning of each round, and learnt my way round on the day. My car has a crap power to weight ratio compared to most of the others.

 

b00l0cks

look at the buddy club car, 300hp, you dont see paul asking for another class or for higher powered cars to move up, it just makes him stronger and i bet he buzzes of it, nice chap he is aswel

 

Bit of a tool though on track when you are on a flyer and he isnt

Dont get me wrong, he's a bloody good driver, he just had a complete lack of respect for other drivers on track at the same time last year. It was his circuit and he was having all the space he wanted.

 

BS, you telling me all of these drivers won because of there driving skills and not the power they run?

Round 4 CLUB CHALLENGE
1. RW Jamie Reynolds (Lotus Elise)…53.048
2. 4W Duncan Graham (Subaru Impreza)…53.100
3. 4W Russ Paton (Mitsubishi EVO 8)…53.910

Round 3
1 – 4WD Shane Smith (Nissan Skyline)…1:02.999
2 – 4WD Duncan Graham (Subaru Impreza)…1:03.419
3 – RWD Paul Whiffin (Toyota Supra JZA80)…1:03.433

Round 2
1 – 4WD Shane Smith (Nissan Skyline)…55.554
2 – 4WD Anthony Elrick (Mitsubishi EVO 6)…55.610
3 – 4WD Russ Paton (Mitsubishi EVO)…56.977

Round 1
1 – 4WD Shane Smith (Nissan Skyline R32 GTR)…1:35.115
2 – 4WD Marcus Webster (Nissan Skyline R32 GTR)…1:36.824
3 – 4WD Duncan Graham (Subaru Impreza)…1:37.111

 

Dunk, they are there because they have tried it, tested it, and learnt and improved. Yes all those cars have power, but they also have very good drivers and well set up cars.

Stop making judgements based on your trackside knowledge, and get your **** in your car, have some fun for a round, and THEN make a judgement on it

See you at Knockhill next year

 

yes they maybe 300 but there all similary powered, which is one of the reason were having this discussion

300 v 600 = Time attack = unfair

200 v 300 = Touring cars = fooking good racing

i know which one i would rather compete in given the option

 

no, the power is enhancing there abillity, what i am trying to say is there are people out there (me included to a degree ) that a deluded into thinking that power is going to get you everywhere you want, there are quite a few more ingredients needed, the standard of driving an all classes of ta is quite high,

in short get your car to 350hp per ton and spend money on setup and yourself, then you should be competative, this will not come overnght

 

i drove a borrowed road car running 340hp with a hands free kit in it, full uk wieght, no 4th gear,and very poor breaks no geometry setup and turbo with the lag from hell on the hairpin and i had sat in it for the first time on the day of oulton time attack, came 10th in my class and got 10 points had the most fun, and each time out i was trying to better myself, had a realy good day

and i have never moaned about higher power cars

 

I had the same power last year or very similar but am between 4 and 6 seconds a lap quicker on every circuit ...I know where that time was gained (and where it could improve a lot further) and who has helped that happen.

 

Come on dunk its never ending , please tell us how the rules should be made and i,ll show you how i can break them ? More rules cost money and i think time attack is for safety and enjoyment at minimal cost for a series .
you have a 400 bhp car what about the people with standard cars say 300 bhp ?

 

So you lot think its competative to race cars against others some with half the horsepower of your own?

300 v 400 is where a good driver could make a difference, at least its bit more closely matched than 300 v 600 lol

 

I didn't say anything about trying to compete with 3-400hp, I am talking about the difference between 500hp, which is achievable for about half the cost of 650-700hp.

FWIW, we ran 500hp at knockhill in 2008 in Pro class, and were 0.4 seconds behind the gobstopper with 850hp (or whatever you think it has).

Touring cars isn't Time Attack, starting budget for a year in touring cars with a mid grid privateer time is £500,000! If you want to build a competitive competition car for less than £10k, then enter something else, if you want the experience and thrill in TA with a cheap car, you can get it, but be realistic about what it is your entering. You know the rules before hand, you can see the lap times, you know about the cars, don't bitch about!

TimeAttack is what is, and it's not really about cars with stage 1 mods in the UK, sorry but that's the truth, although some compete with similar power and enjoy it, you're not going to be winning.

Incidentally, I dynoed Duncan's car after oulton where he came third, it had 460hp, which isn't a busting lot in a car weighing 1400kg, if you were to field an 1100kg classic you could get similar straightline performance with less than 400hp.

 

^^^ That's pretty much it in a nutshell, i was going to type something similar but got distracted by Shakira

 

aawooooooooooooooooo

 

Those hips don't lie!




For the record, just checked what i ran in 2008, started sub 500 from memory and finished with 570 in a car weighing 1152kg. If i'd entered Club Pro this year, judging by the lap times, i wouldn't have needed much evolution in the car to be competitive.

 

not just a track hogger, but a pit garage hogger too!

i had the misfortune to share a garage with team Buddy Club last year... well i say share a garage, after they had hauled all thier gear in there was a few inches of space in the corner for the rest of us!!

But as you say, good driver, and a very good car.... but then i guess thats what you get when you buy in an ex touring car from the far east!

 

i remember that - was awful !

I think he has got better this year, only problems i had on track were at Oulton on my fastest lap of the day getting held up behind Paul West in his civic iirc and at Brands in qualifying with a club pro car hogging the left hand side of the track on a very slow cool down lap (had to undertake him). He did kind of apologise afterwards when I informed him of the error of his ways

 

He will definately not be at snetterton after what i,ve seen today Unless someone has a complete bottom end .