Should someone die in just over 1 hours time?
13 March 2002, 11:27 AM
#61
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As always, you can rely on Mr Lewis to provide a spark of some sort on the BBS 
I support the work of Amnesty International.
It is interesting to read what they say on the subject
Michelle.
Religion wise, I am leaving well alon as I still have yet to find my own footing before divulging in a debate about it
I support the work of Amnesty International.
It is interesting to read what they say on the subject
Michelle.
Religion wise, I am leaving well alon as I still have yet to find my own footing before divulging in a debate about it
13 March 2002, 11:41 AM
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Anyone who takes a life should be prepared to lose their own. As for the death penalty, that's a tough one, because inevitably someone innocent receives the ulitmate punishment, and there is no reprieve.
That has been my view for many years - until recently. After all the threads on here about hijacking and theft, and the general rise in serious crime, it is obvious that the criminal element has become such a scourge that they really need to be removed from society permanently. Corporal and capital puishment should be reintroduced. The death penalty for murder is not a deterrent, that has been proved across the world, because the reasons for it are often heat of the moment type things. But corporal/capital punishment for lesser crimes would certainly make people think twice.
If we wish to reduce crime then we have to be prepared to make certain sacrifices - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few - a few innocnets will pay the ultimate sacrifice. However, it's like the situation in 1939, we have to give up certain freedoms to rid ourselves of a greater evil.
As for the original point of the thread, yes, I think he deserved to die. He admitted it, he has to take responibility for his actions.
As for religion, well, none of it can be proven, none of it is recreatable. But, I respect peoples rights to believe whatever they want, so long as they don't try to make me believe it too. As for God being our judge, how about we don't arrest any criminals and just let God judge them? Do me a favour!!!!!!
Geezer
That has been my view for many years - until recently. After all the threads on here about hijacking and theft, and the general rise in serious crime, it is obvious that the criminal element has become such a scourge that they really need to be removed from society permanently. Corporal and capital puishment should be reintroduced. The death penalty for murder is not a deterrent, that has been proved across the world, because the reasons for it are often heat of the moment type things. But corporal/capital punishment for lesser crimes would certainly make people think twice.
If we wish to reduce crime then we have to be prepared to make certain sacrifices - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few - a few innocnets will pay the ultimate sacrifice. However, it's like the situation in 1939, we have to give up certain freedoms to rid ourselves of a greater evil.
As for the original point of the thread, yes, I think he deserved to die. He admitted it, he has to take responibility for his actions.
As for religion, well, none of it can be proven, none of it is recreatable. But, I respect peoples rights to believe whatever they want, so long as they don't try to make me believe it too. As for God being our judge, how about we don't arrest any criminals and just let God judge them? Do me a favour!!!!!!
Geezer
13 March 2002, 12:12 PM
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Motherf*cker deservers to die, God doesnt sort out squat, he's an imaginary character and not even as cool as Santa, where's the pressies?
You happy clapper "let him live" lot dont have a clue, God doesnt pass any judgement, we do, and no amount of crying to the sky will change that, thank, well, god.
[Edited by IntegraR - 3/13/2002 12:15:12 PM]
You happy clapper "let him live" lot dont have a clue, God doesnt pass any judgement, we do, and no amount of crying to the sky will change that, thank, well, god.
[Edited by IntegraR - 3/13/2002 12:15:12 PM]
13 March 2002, 12:20 PM
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WE PASS JUDGEMENT??
As in the justice system??? THEY DO SWEET FA at times!!
A drink driver got away with killing a friend of mine at 16 years of age????
Call that JUSTICE???
[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Having also had close personal experience with rape/abuse, I can say with conviction that the police do not treat the victim well and in court the victim is made to feel like a liar.
They suffer long after..........
This also makes me mad at people who cry rape too.
There are real victims out there [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
However, before I start on a major rant, I will finish.
As in the justice system??? THEY DO SWEET FA at times!!
A drink driver got away with killing a friend of mine at 16 years of age????
Call that JUSTICE???
[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Having also had close personal experience with rape/abuse, I can say with conviction that the police do not treat the victim well and in court the victim is made to feel like a liar.
They suffer long after..........
This also makes me mad at people who cry rape too.
There are real victims out there [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
However, before I start on a major rant, I will finish.
13 March 2002, 12:29 PM
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Yeah, true, but my point was that God certainly doesnt pass judegment!! as is evident in the way in which these terrible people seem to walk away from these things.
Justice and law is a human thing, and has sweet FA to do with imaginary things that live in the sky waiting for us to die so they can send us someplace happy or someplace hot.
Ive seen justice perverted in a number of ways, and been affected by it personally, and I for one can not believe people are saying he should be allowed to live because we shouldnt pass judgement!!
For a change, the punishment fits the crime, we should appluad it, if there were more rulings like this, the world would be a far nicer place.
Justice and law is a human thing, and has sweet FA to do with imaginary things that live in the sky waiting for us to die so they can send us someplace happy or someplace hot.
Ive seen justice perverted in a number of ways, and been affected by it personally, and I for one can not believe people are saying he should be allowed to live because we shouldnt pass judgement!!
For a change, the punishment fits the crime, we should appluad it, if there were more rulings like this, the world would be a far nicer place.
13 March 2002, 12:31 PM
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Gets off horse, picks up thrown teddy, then picks up spat dummy, proceeds to get coat on way out to catching taxi
Sorry, I went off on one then!
I still feel that way about the UK justice system at the moment.
Sorry, I went off on one then!
I still feel that way about the UK justice system at the moment.
13 March 2002, 12:45 PM
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WHAT UK JUSTICE SYSTEM ?????????????????????????????????????
Biker goes to jail for 12 months for 160mph
Drunk driver kills mother and young child in Manchester just before Christmas and gets a 12 month ban and £600 pound fine.
******* JUSTICE ?????????????
He committed rape then murder in a country that still uses the death penalty, he knew the risks and now he pays the price.
If you do the crime serve the time.
Rant over, he climbs of his soap box.
Daz.
P.S: If God decides all then dont worry because you are not giving the lethal injection.
PPS: This world has to many do gooders and thats why we have so many problems.
Biker goes to jail for 12 months for 160mph
Drunk driver kills mother and young child in Manchester just before Christmas and gets a 12 month ban and £600 pound fine.
******* JUSTICE ?????????????
He committed rape then murder in a country that still uses the death penalty, he knew the risks and now he pays the price.
If you do the crime serve the time.
Rant over, he climbs of his soap box.
Daz.
P.S: If God decides all then dont worry because you are not giving the lethal injection.
PPS: This world has to many do gooders and thats why we have so many problems.
13 March 2002, 12:51 PM
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I can see the arguments against the death penilty but if someone admits it or there is condemming evidence then fry them!
Where is the incentive for people that are a little disturbed in the head (I don't mean a mental illiness but complete madmen/women) to stay out of trouble and not interfer with other people and there lives. If they knew that if they were caught they'd get hung then they might think twice. Then anyone that doesn't consider this as a deterent should (hopefully) get caught and removed from the gene pool... we could remove a lot of the scum in the world by sterilising rapists for example... and hanging murders...
Where is the incentive for people that are a little disturbed in the head (I don't mean a mental illiness but complete madmen/women) to stay out of trouble and not interfer with other people and there lives. If they knew that if they were caught they'd get hung then they might think twice. Then anyone that doesn't consider this as a deterent should (hopefully) get caught and removed from the gene pool... we could remove a lot of the scum in the world by sterilising rapists for example... and hanging murders...
13 March 2002, 01:09 PM
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i agree with Darren Thompson. The justice system is a total shambles. Maybe they should let the relatives of the victims decide the fate of the criminal. Although there is nothing to learn from being executed, if they are locked up, the chances are, they will be released in a matter of years. The word justice has lost all meaning...
13 March 2002, 01:11 PM
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Interesting thread!! I studied this at university, made for an interesting course:
Couple of things to think about - it costs more to kill a person on death row than keep them imprisoned for life.
Is it worse to be imprisoned for life away from family/friends etc. than to be killed relativly quickly?
As a few people have said - some are proved innocent. Is it worth running a system that could potentially kill a person unjustly (prehaps leaving beind family)?
(promise I won't get into this too much, but it has become a debate topic!) As for religion: I've just completed an Alpha course, the evidence (I mean hard, factual, you can touch it type evidence) for the existance of Jesus/God is amazing, stunned me.
Also - God doesn't kill people/rape people etc, he didn't kill, or allow dameloa (sp?) to be killed. His murders killed him, people rape people, it's not God. If he was to intervene for everything bad we'd just be robots uncapable of making our own decisions, it's that bummer called free will. However, if you ask for it, you'll get it.
Anyway -carry on people! Excellent debate...
Jen
Couple of things to think about - it costs more to kill a person on death row than keep them imprisoned for life.
Is it worse to be imprisoned for life away from family/friends etc. than to be killed relativly quickly?
As a few people have said - some are proved innocent. Is it worth running a system that could potentially kill a person unjustly (prehaps leaving beind family)?
(promise I won't get into this too much, but it has become a debate topic!) As for religion: I've just completed an Alpha course, the evidence (I mean hard, factual, you can touch it type evidence) for the existance of Jesus/God is amazing, stunned me.
Also - God doesn't kill people/rape people etc, he didn't kill, or allow dameloa (sp?) to be killed. His murders killed him, people rape people, it's not God. If he was to intervene for everything bad we'd just be robots uncapable of making our own decisions, it's that bummer called free will. However, if you ask for it, you'll get it.
Anyway -carry on people! Excellent debate...
Jen
13 March 2002, 01:23 PM
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No one has a right to take ones life..i think execution is barbaric.It is for God to decide.
Life in prison for said person..as that is punishment enough.
Just think this geezer is gonna die,its over for him....What about the victims family...it will never be over for them...
If it was my member of family that was murdered etc....i would find the geezer/geezeress and dous there privates in petrol and light it...and beat them to within an inch of there life...then let them rot in prison for life..and if let out i would repeat above on a daily basis till there ages around 75 years old,after that i would set them alight fully till death.
Did that sound okay?
Life in prison for said person..as that is punishment enough.
Just think this geezer is gonna die,its over for him....What about the victims family...it will never be over for them...
If it was my member of family that was murdered etc....i would find the geezer/geezeress and dous there privates in petrol and light it...and beat them to within an inch of there life...then let them rot in prison for life..and if let out i would repeat above on a daily basis till there ages around 75 years old,after that i would set them alight fully till death.
Did that sound okay?
13 March 2002, 01:32 PM
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Jen,
Is it possible to get a look at or find more information on the hard evidence you mention for the existance of God / Jesus?
My wife is religious although not strongly but more than I am.
I try and put logic into everything and feel that religion has helped and is helping a lot of people, but I find it difficult to believe. So I almost believe in God being a good thing but not sure if I actually believe in God, if that makes sense.
Any info would be gratefully received.
Claudious - I would be suprized if a post was deleted without an explaination? can you do a "back" and try posting it again, perhaps there was a glitch.
Normally a post appears and then the contents deleted and a post underneath added to explain. Although I can see that the subject could get heated and things of a contrivesial nature posted, but I cannot see that a post would get deleted without trace.. or am I wrong.
Cheers
JGM
Is it possible to get a look at or find more information on the hard evidence you mention for the existance of God / Jesus?
My wife is religious although not strongly but more than I am.
I try and put logic into everything and feel that religion has helped and is helping a lot of people, but I find it difficult to believe. So I almost believe in God being a good thing but not sure if I actually believe in God, if that makes sense.
Any info would be gratefully received.
Claudious - I would be suprized if a post was deleted without an explaination? can you do a "back" and try posting it again, perhaps there was a glitch.
Normally a post appears and then the contents deleted and a post underneath added to explain. Although I can see that the subject could get heated and things of a contrivesial nature posted, but I cannot see that a post would get deleted without trace.. or am I wrong.
Cheers
JGM
13 March 2002, 01:38 PM
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JGM - I'll have a look and see if I can dig out some stuff for you! I'll see if I can find some on-line stuff - if not I can always photocpoy my notes and post 'em to you! I'll drop you an e-mail later...
I know exactly what you mean, I'm very logical and untrusting (although I do try to be trusting!!) so I need the evidence...still means I have 1001 questions though!
Jen
I know exactly what you mean, I'm very logical and untrusting (although I do try to be trusting!!) so I need the evidence...still means I have 1001 questions though!
Jen
13 March 2002, 01:42 PM
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I am not a religous person and therefore very sceptical , altho i would never knock anyone for their beliefs... i had a long conversation with my brother in law (devout christian ) into the wee small hours one evening about the whole thing and the only question he couldnt answer is that of evolution ...man was around and the evolution process took place hundreds of thousands of years before the good book suggests that Adam and Eve got jiggy.
Darwin was critisced by the strictly religous people of his time for writing his theory on evolution as it directly contradicted popular opinion
Darwin was critisced by the strictly religous people of his time for writing his theory on evolution as it directly contradicted popular opinion
13 March 2002, 01:52 PM
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Still maintain my original point of where do you draw the line. Should the guy who was responsible for Selby die, after all his actions were responsible for the deaths of many.
Re the religion thing... I also did a discovery course some years ago and attend Church regularly. It is not fair to blame the religions for the wars but the fanatics who latch onto the religions, Osama, Hitler, Sadam. They pick up people when they are down and offer a solution.
I got a book many years ago from the Jehovas people (no I am not) the title if I remember correctly was Creation or Evolution. And on balance I have to say that both really are equally unbeleivable. In fact in many ways the creation theory is more beleivable, after all look at what we can create now, who's to say that someone didn't create Adam and Eve (be carefull because I think that the Old Testement uses a lot of imagary) The theory of evolution like many sciences after all is based on Theory not FACT.
Got to go for now.
Dave
Re the religion thing... I also did a discovery course some years ago and attend Church regularly. It is not fair to blame the religions for the wars but the fanatics who latch onto the religions, Osama, Hitler, Sadam. They pick up people when they are down and offer a solution.
I got a book many years ago from the Jehovas people (no I am not) the title if I remember correctly was Creation or Evolution. And on balance I have to say that both really are equally unbeleivable. In fact in many ways the creation theory is more beleivable, after all look at what we can create now, who's to say that someone didn't create Adam and Eve (be carefull because I think that the Old Testement uses a lot of imagary) The theory of evolution like many sciences after all is based on Theory not FACT.
Got to go for now.
Dave
13 March 2002, 01:57 PM
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Att: bulbs and Diablo,
I do not believe in God and I am very anti-God and anti-Religion in every way BUT, and the point that I am trying to make is that the American Goverment and citizens are very hipocritical on one hand they support Religion that teaches Thou Shall Not Kill and the next they are killing people [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] just because they think that it is ok. It baffles me every day
Should every person who is born without a concience be killed???? I can addmit that there are sick ***** in the world and they will go on killing and raping people but you simply do not have the right to kill them You all should be ashamed!!
Osama (******* [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] at the stupidity of some people)
I do not believe in God and I am very anti-God and anti-Religion in every way BUT, and the point that I am trying to make is that the American Goverment and citizens are very hipocritical on one hand they support Religion that teaches Thou Shall Not Kill and the next they are killing people [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] just because they think that it is ok. It baffles me every day
Should every person who is born without a concience be killed???? I can addmit that there are sick ***** in the world and they will go on killing and raping people but you simply do not have the right to kill them You all should be ashamed!!
Osama (******* [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] at the stupidity of some people)
13 March 2002, 02:05 PM
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Err I read Claudius's post and believe me there was good reason for its deletion! I remember seeing another post by the same 'person' on another thread and he got flamed for it cos of its severe lack of taste - well beyond taste - purely sick!
Don't know you Claudius but the 2 posts of yours I have read have been very very sick and u should not be surprised at deletion or a flaming, I think if the one on hear had been left you would have got a MASSIVE FLAMING bigger than I have ever seen!
Yes it was that bad!
Don't know you Claudius but the 2 posts of yours I have read have been very very sick and u should not be surprised at deletion or a flaming, I think if the one on hear had been left you would have got a MASSIVE FLAMING bigger than I have ever seen!
Yes it was that bad!
13 March 2002, 02:09 PM
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Proven beyond doubt intentional murder or rape should result in death sentance, not a few years gentle accomadation then release under the pre-text of being cured...
thats my input.. thankyou
thats my input.. thankyou
13 March 2002, 02:33 PM
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Claudius,
No, it wasn't in the best of taste.
I, as well as a lot of the people on Scoobynet, found it offensive as it is a subject that I and others are sensitive about.
Posts like that are not what the BBS is about.
Regards,
Michelle.
No, it wasn't in the best of taste.
I, as well as a lot of the people on Scoobynet, found it offensive as it is a subject that I and others are sensitive about.
Posts like that are not what the BBS is about.
Regards,
Michelle.
13 March 2002, 02:46 PM
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Okay sorry I stand corrected on Claudious post...
I wouldn't want to put you to any trouble Jen, just very interested.
Part of me feels that it was invented by a very clever set of people to keep people in line and make them follow a path and do as they wanted them too.
If this is the case then it worked although as a whole we are slipping away from it... I just would like to know the truth, of course I never will for sure but any evidence would be a good read and a step in the right direction.
BTW - I think the death penalty should be used for purpousful killings, I don't think the Selby disarster is deserving of the death penalty because it was a mistake which he is now paying for.
Unlike raping and killing a woman, this is no accident. I am glad he did it over there and not here at least justice has now been served IMHO.
As to it being more expensive than keeping someone in prison, I am sure caious would occur but I am sure it could be done cheaper...
Hanging has to be a cheap alternative, rope and a chair. none of this expensive chambers and electric chairs or injections.
Going to think about something more happy for a bit now...
Sun is shining....
JGM
I wouldn't want to put you to any trouble Jen, just very interested.
Part of me feels that it was invented by a very clever set of people to keep people in line and make them follow a path and do as they wanted them too.
If this is the case then it worked although as a whole we are slipping away from it... I just would like to know the truth, of course I never will for sure but any evidence would be a good read and a step in the right direction.
BTW - I think the death penalty should be used for purpousful killings, I don't think the Selby disarster is deserving of the death penalty because it was a mistake which he is now paying for.
Unlike raping and killing a woman, this is no accident. I am glad he did it over there and not here at least justice has now been served IMHO.
As to it being more expensive than keeping someone in prison, I am sure caious would occur but I am sure it could be done cheaper...
Hanging has to be a cheap alternative, rope and a chair. none of this expensive chambers and electric chairs or injections.
Going to think about something more happy for a bit now...
Sun is shining....
JGM
13 March 2002, 03:07 PM
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lol - it's very cloudy here JGM! No problems...the photocopier is only..er..about 6ft from my desk anyway!
I agree however, no way death penalty should be used for anything that is essentially an accident.
The cost thing - I think the majority of the cost is buried in (excuse the phrase!) the legal costs rather than the acutal killing, although they do use alot of electricity! I think that cost alone was over 1/4 million...
Jen
I agree however, no way death penalty should be used for anything that is essentially an accident.
The cost thing - I think the majority of the cost is buried in (excuse the phrase!) the legal costs rather than the acutal killing, although they do use alot of electricity! I think that cost alone was over 1/4 million...
Jen
13 March 2002, 03:21 PM
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Wow!! WHAT A RESPONSE. Sorry pete to change the thread around like i did, i didnt realise so many people would kick off. Ive briefly scrolled through the majority of the posts, some nice (thankyou)but some just idiotic and i can honestly say, You just cant educate pork can you. At least its got all us talking about it which is what i set out to do. :-)
As for the evidence point, read the Bible theres your evidence. Some will understand it some may not but when God gives you the key to understand the words and the in depth meanings inside you will be very surprised. Jen, I have read about the Alpha course and know people who have done it. It to has its floors as well as its highs and good points, but at least you are searching which is good. A common question put to me is, how can someone believe in something they cant see,?? and my answer is always, well you beleive that the wind, or gravity exist dont you, cos you can feel it yet you cant see it? I to am a soon to be graduated scientist so i look at everything critically, i suggest unless you know about something, in this case religion or have experienced certain things then dont comment on it unless you want to look silly. It only makes sense. You cant just formulate a one sided argument then expect it to stand without going to the other side and looking at that case. If prosecutors and defence lawyers did that in court then case hearings would be in real trouble.
As for the evidence point, read the Bible theres your evidence. Some will understand it some may not but when God gives you the key to understand the words and the in depth meanings inside you will be very surprised. Jen, I have read about the Alpha course and know people who have done it. It to has its floors as well as its highs and good points, but at least you are searching which is good. A common question put to me is, how can someone believe in something they cant see,?? and my answer is always, well you beleive that the wind, or gravity exist dont you, cos you can feel it yet you cant see it? I to am a soon to be graduated scientist so i look at everything critically, i suggest unless you know about something, in this case religion or have experienced certain things then dont comment on it unless you want to look silly. It only makes sense. You cant just formulate a one sided argument then expect it to stand without going to the other side and looking at that case. If prosecutors and defence lawyers did that in court then case hearings would be in real trouble.
13 March 2002, 03:35 PM
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Scrappydoo,
I understand what you mean about reading the bible and that this is the proof... I am taking things to extreme but you couldn't read a book on say UFO's and say right there is your proof...
The bible is different I know and not like one authors view or anything like that. It would just be nice to have something extra.
People believe different things and to them the what they believe is the truth or become it to them and I respect that, and that people believe in God whole heartedly and that you are right perhaps the bible should be the only proof I need. Perhaps I should read it again...
I just at the minute would like something different and from a different perspective which I hope will help my mind in the direction of belief. Not that I can ever see myself being strongly religious but it would be good to get rid of this uncertain opinion either one way or the other.
Thank you very much Jen.. will speak to you about this some more later I am sure.
Thats my lot for today.
JGM
I understand what you mean about reading the bible and that this is the proof... I am taking things to extreme but you couldn't read a book on say UFO's and say right there is your proof...
The bible is different I know and not like one authors view or anything like that. It would just be nice to have something extra.
People believe different things and to them the what they believe is the truth or become it to them and I respect that, and that people believe in God whole heartedly and that you are right perhaps the bible should be the only proof I need. Perhaps I should read it again...
I just at the minute would like something different and from a different perspective which I hope will help my mind in the direction of belief. Not that I can ever see myself being strongly religious but it would be good to get rid of this uncertain opinion either one way or the other.
Thank you very much Jen.. will speak to you about this some more later I am sure.
Thats my lot for today.
JGM
13 March 2002, 03:42 PM
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Scrappydoo you believe fair enough, I believe there is a greater force out there as well but don’t comment on it in as much detail as yourself, in your reply you slate people for there non-believes " Educate Pork ".
You also state that you are training to become a scientist, what about evolution and the dinosaurs and carbon dating, just some more wood for the fire.
Have a nice day all, Daz.
Edited because I can not spell.
[Edited by Darren Thompson - 3/13/2002 3:43:52 PM]
You also state that you are training to become a scientist, what about evolution and the dinosaurs and carbon dating, just some more wood for the fire.
Have a nice day all, Daz.
Edited because I can not spell.
[Edited by Darren Thompson - 3/13/2002 3:43:52 PM]