Splitpin

I've answered this in one of your other threads. Tactrix cable if you want an all in one solution, or else a basic ISO interface plus a method of supplying VPPH. The hardware requirements are as per the newage cars.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks an FMIC is a one-step forward, one-step back issue in your situation. Better TMIC gives you the lower charge temps but without the penalty imposed by the longer induction tract.

just123

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info splitpin

Could i use this cable to save the map from my existing ppp ecu and put it on a standard ecu until i can get it mapped by andy f as the plan is to sell my ppp ecu and start from a standard ecu

RA Dunk

Isnt the PPP just a prodrive map on a standard ECU anyway?

Splitpin

The theoretical answer to your question is yes, but the hardware alone is useless without 99-00 flash capable software, and I have no idea what the open source community has cooked up for these ECUs.

Wasn't even aware someone in the OS community had actually done it until Bob commented - although it isn't difficult and I'm frankly surprised it's taken this long. Either way Bob is probably the one to point you in the right direction.

Yes, the ECU hardware is the same whether UK, STi, PPP or whatever.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

If you take the trouble to monitor ACTs you will find that even on a semi standard STi 6 around 320 bhp the ACTs are way out of control. It is a good bit less than this on earlier cars with slanted intercoolers where the ACTs are already rocketing by 280 bhp.
Having fitted an STi 8 TMIC to my STi 3 Wagon I can also tell you that around 390 bhp even with the STi 8 scoop and undertray, ACTs are starting to rise noticably. The car in question was rolling roaded at 392 bhp, a Hybrid FMIC fitted and then back on the same rollers (Dyno Dynamics) producing 401 bhp and with mapping 409.8 bhp.
The cost of the STi 8 TMIC with scoop and undertray was more than the cost of a Hybrid FMIC and fitting was more involved on the STi 3.
If you are experiencing turbo lag after fitting an efficient FMIC then I suggest you have a word with your mapper because the reasons for lag, often blamed on the FMIC usually lie elsewhere.
You can do the sums for yourself and work out how much additional air is in the system FMIC -v- TMIC and relate that to the engine air consumption. The difference is marginal.

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

This kind of comment is a myth. As Andy F (who knows a thing or two about quick cars ) has eleoquently demonstrated, more pipework = more volume to fill = more lag, or to put it another way, reduced throttle response (crispness) between gear shifts.

You CAN feel the difference in response, which is why I went from TMIC to FMIC then back to TMIC again. However, I do agree that the importance of this in the overall driving experience tends to generate strongly differing opinions.

I would also agree very much with Harvey's observations; under long hard sustained throttle, a FMIC will be better at keeping charge temperatures down. If I were tracking the car, I'd use a FMIC as a precaution and for more power under full sustained throttle.

However, my car is used strictly on the road, produces 415bhp, runs a TMIC and I'm willing to bet that through the gears on the open road, it would have the legs on a FMIC equipped car with exactly the same power and torque figures

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Time Attack cars run FMICs because they know the TMIC is inadequate. The TMIC is OK for a quarter mile but remember some of the fastest quarter mile cars with TMICs avoid top speed runs because their engine is at risk with the inadequate cooling of the charge.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Why are TMICs okay on 1/4mile cars, and why do they seem to outperform similar spec'd FMIC equipped cars? Is it the warmer charge temps or is it indeed to do with lag/throttle response?

TMICs and FMICs both have their places, but it's bull$hit to say there is no difference in lag/response.

Mine runs a TMIC with a TD05-16g at the moment. For the next stage in mods it will be fitted with one of our Hybrid GT2 Spec FMICs - it will be over a 100bhp jump that makes me go FMIC though as I am well aware that it does affect lag/response.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

It is obvious to most people why quarter mile cars get away with top mounts. They make a single run with a duration of 10-15 seconds flat out. Track cars cannot get away with top mounts if they have reasonable power and if you don't have a air charge temperature guage fitted you don't know what you are talking about.
A lot of Subaru engines have been lost because the owners have driven, in ignorance, beyond the ability of their TMIC to adequately control ACTs and they have entered an envelope that has not been mapped.
In a poor case scenario the FMIC does add a fraction of a second but most drivers wouldn't even notice that. Then you can also take corrective action subject to what ECU you are running (Anti-Lag or WOT gear shift), so any minor TMIC advantage has gone. If your car lives on the quarter mile strip you will get away with a TMIC. If you want a car capable of regular high speed running, hard road driving and the odd hard driven track day your choice is pretty obvious.

I see you are claiming largest Hybrid stock. As you don't know my stock level you are probably talking crap.
I see you are claiming unbeatable prices which is more crap based on your advertised prices with delivery so get the price down a bit mate

Price wars. Don't you love them. Got to be good for the end user.

Tidgy

carfeull harvey, or you'll have to email folks to make sure the price works for you

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

My two cents: Fitting a quality FMIC (read Hybrid) improved the driveability of the car significantly.

I could not discern any increase in either boost threshold or lag. What I could discern is the extra "omph" the car developed; probably something to do with the extra degrees of ignition advance Bob was able to utilise in the re-map.

Harvey has also done some extensive testing on this subject and found that for a classic, any more than 300bhp and you need to start addressing temps and that a TMIC (even the STi 8 ones) don't do this as effectively as a FMIC.

There is cost to take into the equation, which means that if you have a new age, it's much more economical to slip a Sti intercooler on there, but if you have a classic, the FMIC is a bit of a no-brainer PROVIDING

a) You don't mind having your bumper and inner wing cut into
b) Are prepared to pay for an induction kit and remap for the FMIC
c) Don't mind the look of the thing.

If you do a search, you'll see a big review from me on the subject after I had my FMIC fitted.

Ns04

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

So, in a roundabout way, you seem to agree that a FMIC does add to lag/response.

I would choose a TMIC everytime for a moderate tune on a road car with occasional track use.

If I was planning on using it more on the track or higher power, I would be inclined to use a FMIC.

It's not about what numbers a car puts on the rollers, but how quick the car really is. The blackstuff doesn't lie.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Bob5 :
I don't talk in a roundabout way. I tell it like it is.

Harvey.
Elsewhere there was a calculation perporting to show the lag was .3 secs per gear shift and that is utter bunkum and someone else actually explained to you, in part, why the calculations were based on false premise.
For the average Subaru owner with a Classic, the FMIC is the obvious choice depending on M/Y, somewhere between 280 and 320 BHP. On a New Age a WRX there are benefits to be had before 350 bhp and on an STi somewhere just over that level.
I think those that do not monitor their Air Charge Temperatures would be shocked to know just how high they can go under hard driving on a top mount.
Unless your car is dedicated to the quarter mile it is a no brainer.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I'm with Harvey on this, having killed my car running 300bhp with a STi6 topmount, in high temperatures at "high" speeds on French motorways this summer.

When/if it gets rebuilt, HOWEVER it is rebuilt, it will get an FMIC and an ACT gauge

If there IS any noticeable lag, I can live with it. What I can't live with is another dose of big-end failure.