Tory T*ssers' about turn.
03 November 2009, 04:26 PM
#31
Copy of an e-mail to david cameron:
Removal of Backbone?
Dear David, I ASSUME the above is what you've had done, since I can see no other reason for your about turn on giving us a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.
Every internet site I have been on today is filled with people saying you have just lost their vote.
To be honest, you could WALK the next election by GUARANTEEING a referendum, and sorting out the West Lothian Question, neither of which you seem inclined now to do. I am afraid that to the floating voter your party is seen as "same sh*t, different coloured rosette", or worse, "Lying Labour by another name" now.
I can see UKIP getting a LOT of votes............
Kind regards, jeff
Let's see if I get a response
Removal of Backbone?
Dear David, I ASSUME the above is what you've had done, since I can see no other reason for your about turn on giving us a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.
Every internet site I have been on today is filled with people saying you have just lost their vote.
To be honest, you could WALK the next election by GUARANTEEING a referendum, and sorting out the West Lothian Question, neither of which you seem inclined now to do. I am afraid that to the floating voter your party is seen as "same sh*t, different coloured rosette", or worse, "Lying Labour by another name" now.
I can see UKIP getting a LOT of votes............
Kind regards, jeff
Let's see if I get a response
03 November 2009, 04:31 PM
#32
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Do UKIP also believe that the holocaust did not happen, hate puftas and are all convicted criminals as well? or, is this a fantastic piece of your logic or are you tarring both parties with the same brush???
I am genuinely interested because UKIP is now one of my voting options, now Camoron has had his spine removed
I am genuinely interested because UKIP is now one of my voting options, now Camoron has had his spine removed
03 November 2009, 04:47 PM
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03 November 2009, 04:51 PM
#34
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Do UKIP also believe that the holocaust did not happen, hate puftas and are all convicted criminals as well? or, is this a fantastic piece of your logic or are you tarring both parties with the same brush???
I am genuinely interested because UKIP is now one of my voting options, now Camoron has had his spine removed
I am genuinely interested because UKIP is now one of my voting options, now Camoron has had his spine removed
...I assume you're voting for them Paul
03 November 2009, 04:57 PM
#36
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You know full well he was refering to the BNP part of UB post, and he's right they are fascist holocaust rejectionists. Whereas UKIP are just a laughable bunch of right wing xenophobes caught in the wrong century. They'd be more respectable as a political party if they where to wear oversize shoes and have spinning round bow ties...I assume you're voting for them Paul
...I assume you're voting for them PaulIt was one of the big differenciators between the Tories and Nu Liar and now it is gone.
I understand you have a pathalogical need to suck up to the EU, God only knows why but each to thier own
I do not and will not rubber stamp a party - especially as Camoron has decided to do the dirty and no vote on the Lisbon Treaty - Martin, i think you will find i am not alone either.
I would rather not vote than vote for the tories now. I am disgusted and i think they are starting to show thier colours - blue + little gold stars...
Last edited by The Zohan; 03 November 2009 at 05:00 PM.
03 November 2009, 05:03 PM
#37
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Who do you refer to UKIP or the spinning bow tie party? - TBH either have a chance now and more chance than NL - especially as Camoron has decided to do the dirty and no vote on the Lisbon Treaty - Martin, i think you will find i am not alone either.
It was one of the big differenciators between the Tories and Nu Liar and now it is gone.
I understand you have a pathalogical need to suck up to the EU, God only knows why but each to thier own
It was one of the big differenciators between the Tories and Nu Liar and now it is gone.
I understand you have a pathalogical need to suck up to the EU, God only knows why but each to thier own
Seriously though I pretty sceptic about the whole EU federalisation, I just don't have the same gut instinct that some have, but I want it to be made better and far far more accountable. I think a referendum on our continued membership would be a good thing, and clear the air either way....it ain't going to happen of course.
03 November 2009, 05:12 PM
#38
Seriously though I pretty sceptic about the whole EU federalisation, I just don't have the same gut instinct that some have, but I want it to be made better and far far more accountable. I think a referendum on our continued membership would be a good thing, and clear the air either way....it ain't going to happen of course.
The whole EU needs total reform with regards of corruption, no doubt Cameron has €€€€ signs in his eyes and wants in on the gravy train.
03 November 2009, 05:44 PM
#40
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Do UKIP also believe that the holocaust did not happen, hate puftas and are all convicted criminals as well? or, is this a fantastic piece of your logic or are you tarring both parties with the same brush???
I am genuinely interested because UKIP is now one of my voting options, now Camoron has had his spine removed
I am genuinely interested because UKIP is now one of my voting options, now Camoron has had his spine removed
1) UKIP have never denied the holocaust, are not racist, do not have racist membership exclusions, the leader does not have a criminal record and have never advocated anti gay policy.
2) I said 'vote in a PARTY' not PARTIES.
I will try and be more precise in future, for your benefit
Last edited by Dingdongler; 03 November 2009 at 05:47 PM.
03 November 2009, 06:04 PM
#41
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Paul, I would have thought it obvious that I was referring to the BNP since
1) UKIP have never denied the holocaust, are not racist, do not have racist membership exclusions, the leader does not have a criminal record and have never advocated anti gay policy.
2) I said 'vote in a PARTY' not PARTIES.
I will try and be more precise in future, for your benefit
1) UKIP have never denied the holocaust, are not racist, do not have racist membership exclusions, the leader does not have a criminal record and have never advocated anti gay policy.
2) I said 'vote in a PARTY' not PARTIES.
I will try and be more precise in future, for your benefit
Please Pete, if you would not mind - and who will you be voting for???
03 November 2009, 06:45 PM
#42
Well it WOULDN'T be if the English were treated the same as the Sweaties by this set of Sweaty-run Lying B@stards!
03 November 2009, 07:51 PM
#43
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Not just me saying that. See ... EU Referendum: A certain consistency
"... No one can blame Klaus for not trying. On 22 April 2004, he warned that Czech membership of the EU would signal the end of his country as an independent sovereign state.
He made his comments to the Mlada Fronta Dnes, one of the leading Czech newspapers. They came less than two weeks before the Czech Republic, along with nine other countries, joined the EU.
Klaus spoke of more than a thousand years of history that threatened to be subsumed under the rule of Brussels. He urged his fellow countrymen to do everything possible to preserve the integrity of the Czech state ...".
Not sure you can say the Czech President is naive about politics, or any other 'charge' you could level against me on a forum, so he just confirms what should be blindingly obvious even to you. The sooner we get out the better.
Dave
"... No one can blame Klaus for not trying. On 22 April 2004, he warned that Czech membership of the EU would signal the end of his country as an independent sovereign state.
He made his comments to the Mlada Fronta Dnes, one of the leading Czech newspapers. They came less than two weeks before the Czech Republic, along with nine other countries, joined the EU.
Klaus spoke of more than a thousand years of history that threatened to be subsumed under the rule of Brussels. He urged his fellow countrymen to do everything possible to preserve the integrity of the Czech state ...".
Not sure you can say the Czech President is naive about politics, or any other 'charge' you could level against me on a forum, so he just confirms what should be blindingly obvious even to you. The sooner we get out the better.
Dave
03 November 2009, 08:00 PM
#44
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Not just me saying that. See ... EU Referendum: A certain consistency
"... No one can blame Klaus for not trying. On 22 April 2004, he warned that Czech membership of the EU would signal the end of his country as an independent sovereign state.
He made his comments to the Mlada Fronta Dnes, one of the leading Czech newspapers. They came less than two weeks before the Czech Republic, along with nine other countries, joined the EU.
Klaus spoke of more than a thousand years of history that threatened to be subsumed under the rule of Brussels. He urged his fellow countrymen to do everything possible to preserve the integrity of the Czech state ...".
Not sure you can say the Czech President is naive about politics, or any other 'charge' you could level against me on a forum, so he just confirms what should be blindingly obvious even to you. The sooner we get out the better.
Dave
"... No one can blame Klaus for not trying. On 22 April 2004, he warned that Czech membership of the EU would signal the end of his country as an independent sovereign state.
He made his comments to the Mlada Fronta Dnes, one of the leading Czech newspapers. They came less than two weeks before the Czech Republic, along with nine other countries, joined the EU.
Klaus spoke of more than a thousand years of history that threatened to be subsumed under the rule of Brussels. He urged his fellow countrymen to do everything possible to preserve the integrity of the Czech state ...".
Not sure you can say the Czech President is naive about politics, or any other 'charge' you could level against me on a forum, so he just confirms what should be blindingly obvious even to you. The sooner we get out the better.
Dave
You seem to enjoy putting the words of your political opponents into my mouth.
Personally I think a vote would be good, we need to make a definitive decision, and stop this standing on the outskirts moaning and bitching.
Fully in including monetary union, or fully out and we go our own way. It would be a good debate to have, assuming we could have a grown up debate in this country given Murdoch dominated media landscape.
Right now I think (on balance) I would vote for 'in', but I'm open to persuasion.
Last edited by Martin2005; 03 November 2009 at 08:02 PM.
03 November 2009, 08:58 PM
#46
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Paul, I'm not sure who I would vote for. I just can't undestand why everybody here are soiling their white cotton panties.
If DC said ref under any circumstances, then he has lied and will suffer for it. If he said ref only if not ratified, well then he told the truth and we are where we are.
Some people just find it another reason to rant, moan and curse at the 2 major parties. Some even bigger morons fire up those two neurons in their rather empty heads and think......'Right, I'll ditch the 2/3 main centralist parties that have, with many problems I grant you, given us a progressive UK and instead vote for a bunch of fascist thugs'. That really is Scoobynet logic at its best, isn't it?
Not sure who I will vote for, I don't do protest votes, I think that's for silly little boys with small ******* and so it will be one of the main parties.
Anyway, there are actually bigger fish to fry at the moment. I was a euro sceptic, but the UK has become the poor man of europe and we may need them now. We are drowning under a sea of debt, with no real plan to resolve this. It is not impossible for us to become insolvent as a nation/state.
If DC said ref under any circumstances, then he has lied and will suffer for it. If he said ref only if not ratified, well then he told the truth and we are where we are.
Some people just find it another reason to rant, moan and curse at the 2 major parties. Some even bigger morons fire up those two neurons in their rather empty heads and think......'Right, I'll ditch the 2/3 main centralist parties that have, with many problems I grant you, given us a progressive UK and instead vote for a bunch of fascist thugs'. That really is Scoobynet logic at its best, isn't it?
Not sure who I will vote for, I don't do protest votes, I think that's for silly little boys with small ******* and so it will be one of the main parties.
Anyway, there are actually bigger fish to fry at the moment. I was a euro sceptic, but the UK has become the poor man of europe and we may need them now. We are drowning under a sea of debt, with no real plan to resolve this. It is not impossible for us to become insolvent as a nation/state.
Last edited by Dingdongler; 03 November 2009 at 09:03 PM.
03 November 2009, 09:13 PM
#47
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Yes because socialist superstates have a great track record dont they? What about the 140 countries that arent in the EU - are they going to wither and die because they dont have 130000 regulations on tagging goats? Being out of the EU is an ADVANTAGE! You get to make your own laws that serve your own interests and trade with who you like, set taxes at whatever rate you like and have SELF GOVERNANCE, that'll be the thing that we fought the last war over. The other option is slavery to a bureaucratic superstate which no democracy to change anything. You're seriously telling me thats a good idea? Get real
mb
03 November 2009, 10:02 PM
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04 November 2009, 09:52 AM
#49
You seem to enjoy putting the words of your political opponents into my mouth.
Personally I think a vote would be good, we need to make a definitive decision, and stop this standing on the outskirts moaning and bitching.
Fully in including monetary union, or fully out and we go our own way. It would be a good debate to have, assuming we could have a grown up debate in this country given Murdoch dominated media landscape.
Right now I think (on balance) I would vote for 'in', but I'm open to persuasion.
Personally I think a vote would be good, we need to make a definitive decision, and stop this standing on the outskirts moaning and bitching.
Fully in including monetary union, or fully out and we go our own way. It would be a good debate to have, assuming we could have a grown up debate in this country given Murdoch dominated media landscape.
Right now I think (on balance) I would vote for 'in', but I'm open to persuasion.
04 November 2009, 01:37 PM
#50
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Martin,
How do you feel about effectively losing your democratic rights, and your civil liberties going down the tubes, being taxed by the Eu,having an Eu police force to make sure you toe their line, losing your country in all but name-and that will go eventually, having a bunch in overall charge whose accounts have not been successfully audited for 14 years now, where did those miliions of euros go I wonder?, and never having been given the chance as other countries have to expression your own wishes about the whole affair? And that is just the tip of it!
Doesn't sound all that good to me!
Les
How do you feel about effectively losing your democratic rights, and your civil liberties going down the tubes, being taxed by the Eu,having an Eu police force to make sure you toe their line, losing your country in all but name-and that will go eventually, having a bunch in overall charge whose accounts have not been successfully audited for 14 years now, where did those miliions of euros go I wonder?, and never having been given the chance as other countries have to expression your own wishes about the whole affair? And that is just the tip of it!
Doesn't sound all that good to me!
Les
04 November 2009, 02:13 PM
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Martin,
How do you feel about effectively losing your democratic rights, and your civil liberties going down the tubes, being taxed by the Eu,having an Eu police force to make sure you toe their line, losing your country in all but name-and that will go eventually, having a bunch in overall charge whose accounts have not been successfully audited for 14 years now, where did those miliions of euros go I wonder?, and never having been given the chance as other countries have to expression your own wishes about the whole affair? And that is just the tip of it!
Doesn't sound all that good to me!
Les
How do you feel about effectively losing your democratic rights, and your civil liberties going down the tubes, being taxed by the Eu,having an Eu police force to make sure you toe their line, losing your country in all but name-and that will go eventually, having a bunch in overall charge whose accounts have not been successfully audited for 14 years now, where did those miliions of euros go I wonder?, and never having been given the chance as other countries have to expression your own wishes about the whole affair? And that is just the tip of it!
Doesn't sound all that good to me!
Les
Why are you asking me these question specifically?
I've already stated what I feel about the EU on this thread. I suspect our views aren't that far apart (although mine involve far less amateur dramatics than yours
) - hence my incredulity at your postIf you want to have an argument at least choose a subject where we really disagree
04 November 2009, 02:42 PM
#52
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It was an excuse to say it really Martin, I thought you might want to make a few points yourself. I was not actually looking for an argument. Apologies if it sounded like it.
Its all a bit unusual really, us agreeing like this. I have mentioned this on another thread as I am sure you will see.
As I said, we need PSL back so we can really get wound up!
I will say that as dramatic as you think it sounds, I bet I am not far from the eventual truth! What a worry.
Les
I was not actually looking for an argument. Apologies if it sounded like it.Its all a bit unusual really, us agreeing like this. I have mentioned this on another thread as I am sure you will see.
As I said, we need PSL back so we can really get wound up!
I will say that as dramatic as you think it sounds, I bet I am not far from the eventual truth! What a worry.
Les
04 November 2009, 06:52 PM
#53
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Well, as Alcazar says above, he really has lost his backbone. He's gone and reneged on his promise. OK. A referendum on an already ratified treaty hasn't got legal legs, in the EU at any rate, but it would have conferred legitimacy onto CMD in any dealings to get power back from the EU.
"... If we win the next election, we will amend the European Communities Act 1972 to prohibit, by law, the transfer of power to the EU without a referendum.
And that will cover not just any future treaties like Lisbon, but any future attempt to take Britain into the euro.
We will give the British people a referendum lock to which only they should hold the key - a commitment very similar to that in Ireland ..."
But he doesn't get it does he? There is no need for another treaty as Lisbon trumps the lot! Westminster is just a talking shop and after Dec 2nd when it gets signed into law, Flash, and then CMD, assuming he gets to be PM, will just be part of the bureaucracy that reports into Brussels. Worse, he's treating the electorate as imbeciles, thinking we don't realise.
Well, BNP and UKIP will get plenty of votes now. Me thinks 'quisling' is the word that best describes the politicians who have, either through action or inaction, have let this happen. The guy's who fought the world wars will be turning in their graves tonight!
Dave
PS: strange that 'quisling' should describe the 'traitors' but it comes from a Norwegian. They, of course, are not in the EU and are doing just fine ......
"... If we win the next election, we will amend the European Communities Act 1972 to prohibit, by law, the transfer of power to the EU without a referendum.
And that will cover not just any future treaties like Lisbon, but any future attempt to take Britain into the euro.
We will give the British people a referendum lock to which only they should hold the key - a commitment very similar to that in Ireland ..."
But he doesn't get it does he? There is no need for another treaty as Lisbon trumps the lot! Westminster is just a talking shop and after Dec 2nd when it gets signed into law, Flash, and then CMD, assuming he gets to be PM, will just be part of the bureaucracy that reports into Brussels. Worse, he's treating the electorate as imbeciles, thinking we don't realise.
Well, BNP and UKIP will get plenty of votes now. Me thinks 'quisling' is the word that best describes the politicians who have, either through action or inaction, have let this happen. The guy's who fought the world wars will be turning in their graves tonight!
Dave
PS: strange that 'quisling' should describe the 'traitors' but it comes from a Norwegian. They, of course, are not in the EU and are doing just fine ......
04 November 2009, 07:07 PM
#54
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Well, as Alcazar says above, he really has lost his backbone. He's gone and reneged on his promise. OK. A referendum on an already ratified treaty hasn't got legal legs, in the EU at any rate, but it would have conferred legitimacy onto CMD in any dealings to get power back from the EU.
"... If we win the next election, we will amend the European Communities Act 1972 to prohibit, by law, the transfer of power to the EU without a referendum.
And that will cover not just any future treaties like Lisbon, but any future attempt to take Britain into the euro.
We will give the British people a referendum lock to which only they should hold the key - a commitment very similar to that in Ireland ..."
But he doesn't get it does he? There is no need for another treaty as Lisbon trumps the lot! Westminster is just a talking shop and after Dec 2nd when it gets signed into law, Flash, and then CMD, assuming he gets to be PM, will just be part of the bureaucracy that reports into Brussels. Worse, he's treating the electorate as imbeciles, thinking we don't realise.
Well, BNP and UKIP will get plenty of votes now. Me thinks 'quisling' is the word that best describes the politicians who have, either through action or inaction, have let this happen. The guy's who fought the world wars will be turning in their graves tonight!
Dave
PS: strange that 'quisling' should describe the 'traitors' but it comes from a Norwegian. They, of course, are not in the EU and are doing just fine ......
"... If we win the next election, we will amend the European Communities Act 1972 to prohibit, by law, the transfer of power to the EU without a referendum.
And that will cover not just any future treaties like Lisbon, but any future attempt to take Britain into the euro.
We will give the British people a referendum lock to which only they should hold the key - a commitment very similar to that in Ireland ..."
But he doesn't get it does he? There is no need for another treaty as Lisbon trumps the lot! Westminster is just a talking shop and after Dec 2nd when it gets signed into law, Flash, and then CMD, assuming he gets to be PM, will just be part of the bureaucracy that reports into Brussels. Worse, he's treating the electorate as imbeciles, thinking we don't realise.
Well, BNP and UKIP will get plenty of votes now. Me thinks 'quisling' is the word that best describes the politicians who have, either through action or inaction, have let this happen. The guy's who fought the world wars will be turning in their graves tonight!
Dave
PS: strange that 'quisling' should describe the 'traitors' but it comes from a Norwegian. They, of course, are not in the EU and are doing just fine ......
05 November 2009, 03:30 PM
#55
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Nothing to stop us from voting against Flash's betrayal of this country despite their promise and withdrawing the legality of Flash's signature because it was not approved by the electorate.
What can the Eu do if we were to do just that and have our referendum?
Les
What can the Eu do if we were to do just that and have our referendum?
Les
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